why is my AI not working for me - gyno while ON

[voshi]

So im currently on my 6th week of test e 500mg week and tren a 350mg week.
Prior to starting this cycle i used the Letro gyno 'reversal' protocol you would have seen around. I got this gyno from a shitty Deca cycle (shitty recoverly really)

Anyhow, about 2-3 weeks ago i started to notice the lump tender and growing again. i was running Aromasin at 12.5mg ED. I stepped this up to 25mg ED. nothing at all seemed to changed, so here i am pumping away at 50mg a day, and have come to the conclusion that this will not stop my problem, but probably just inhibit gains right?

So wht would my AI not be working? I have no Progesterone or prolactin issues btw. ive actually run tren (with test) before with no AI and no problems.

Recs anyone? Thanks

[DanB]

is your a.i pharm grade?

how do you know you no issues without bloodwork? you may of been ok last time but things can change

you got alot of variables

[voshi]

yeah the aromasin is pharma tabs. i tried a reputable research company and i thought the products were not up to scratch but bloodwork proved otherwise. but yeah i changed to pharma tabs anyway.

Bloodwork, yes i always get bloodwork. before, through out and after. a couple of weeks ago, at first signs of gyno return, my e2 levels were normal range and like i said above, no progesterone or prolactin abnormalities.

[DanB]

if your on pharm a.i and everything is in normal ranges yet still getting gyno then in all honesty i have no clue, but i can think of a couple people here that may be able to give an opinion when they see this, im looking forward to hearing it aswell

[Metalject]

Just a guess, but could it be you already had a mild case of gyno that's been there awhile and then once you lean out a little more you then notice it. I'm not saying that's what happened but it's possible. If your Aromasin is real, it should be able to prevent any estro buildup or any tren related induced...not a lot of counterfeit Aromasin out there.

Personally, I prefer Adex and Letro in AI's, have had good success with Letro and reversing symptoms but don't care for it any longer than I have to use it...makes me feel like crap, especially at a high dose that gene symptom reversal often takes.

Last thing, always keep in mind if it's been there awhile and only now really noticeable, there's nothing that's going to reverse set in gynecomastia.

[voshi]

the letro i used was research stuff. bloodwork showed that was obviously the real deal. and i had a grape size lump tht reduced right down as well as the tenderness disappearing. i understand what you're saying as i lean out it may be more noticable, but its more like the lump has grown back to grape size and tenderness has returned to both nips.

I still have letro, i didnt want to use it on cycle as ive heard its a little too potent for maximum size gains... correct me if i'm wrong, because i'll jump back on that and see what happens. i just dont want to crash my e2 too hard for my last 5-6 weeks thats all.

I should add that im taking accutane (9 months at 40mg day) ive heard bits and pieces that this could cause issues. still dont think that its my answer though.

cheers for the input so far guys

[Peer]

Did you consider adding raloxifene? Does not sound as if upping your AI has given any incremental improvement.

Would also confirm labs!

[voshi]

have considered jumping on a serm, not necessarily ralox, but im unsure as of yet. might have to deal with it untill i finish up and then start letro again for a while. and yeah letro and me dont really get along too well after a couple of weeks either.

[voshi]

oh what do you mean confirm labs Peer?

[songdog]

There is no talk of rec drugs on this forum.You need to edit your thread and read the rules Bro.

[Lunk1]

This is one reason to keep the test levels at TRT doses...less test=less aromatizing into estrogen.

[voshi]

Sorry bro, wish it was allowed because it is relavent but rules are rules.

As for TRT doses, i feel alot better on that ratio of test to tren for some reason. everybody is different, high test low test or equal.

cheers

[Metalject]

the letro i used was research stuff. bloodwork showed that was obviously the real deal. and i had a grape size lump tht reduced right down as well as the tenderness disappearing. i understand what you're saying as i lean out it may be more noticable, but its more like the lump has grown back to grape size and tenderness has returned to both nips.

I still have letro, i didnt want to use it on cycle as ive heard its a little too potent for maximum size gains... correct me if i'm wrong, because i'll jump back on that and see what happens. i just dont want to crash my e2 too hard for my last 5-6 weeks thats all.

I should add that im taking accutane (9 months at 40mg day) ive heard bits and pieces that this could cause issues. still dont think that its my answer though.

cheers for the input so far guys

How much your growth will be affected, a lot of that's often blown way out of proportion but even if it is affected a little, you don't grow quite as much as you wanted to, what's worse, a little less size or gyno?

[voshi]

To be honest, im probably after maximum size at the moment. reason being, i will be getting gyno surgery next year, but i have to wait 6 months after i stop taking accutane, so im still 9-10 months away from solving that problem for good. so as long as i can just stop it from getting worse, and ill probably run letro for a while to reduce it yet again.

but as you say, its often blown way out of proportion, so should i just switch back to letro for the rest of this cycle? if so what dose would you recommend? im guessing not the 2.5mg a day you would use for 'reversal'.

thanks for the reply

[measuretwicecutonce]

perhaps lower ur test level (less test means less aromotization) then continue your 25ED dose, (even less e in your system).

adding mast will help. prop ester will work quickly, use 300mg+, make sure not to use nolva with that nor19

[AsEpSiS]

I'm wondering why nobody suggested that he use nolva? I'm definantly gyno prone and super sensitive to e2. It seems once i look at test, my nips start itching! On a real note....when I'm on, the moment my nips start itching, i blast 40mg of nolva then perhaps 10-20mg nolva eod to keep the iching sensation away, hence avoiding gyno.....right??

[measuretwicecutonce]

nolva is a no no with tren n deca.

[voshi]

since tren and deca are progestins (i think thats right) you shouldnt use SERMS for gyno treatment while on any 19nor cycle. this is because nolva upregulates the progesterone receptor, meaning you'll end up with progesterone induced gyno. Although i have read that alot of people have used nolva with tren and havent had any problems, im not real keen
on trying this myself.

Maybe dropping my test down to 350 or something might be my only option at this stage. will dropping the test slightly make much of a difference in gains?

cheers again guys keep it coming

[alexISthrowed]

I'm wondering why nobody suggested that he use nolva? I'm definantly gyno prone and super sensitive to e2. It seems once i look at test, my nips start itching! On a real note....when I'm on, the moment my nips start itching, i blast 40mg of nolva then perhaps 10-20mg nolva eod to keep the iching sensation away, hence avoiding gyno.....right??

The problem with tamoxifen is that it just masks the problem. It works on your estrogen receptors blocking estrogen mainly in breast tissue. it will bring your gyno down but your estrogen level will be unaffected. Tamoxifen is handy in treating gyno when used in conjunction with an ai though. I feel like I read something on here debunking the whole don't take tamoxifen with a 19-nor thing. I know I've never had issues with it.

[alexISthrowed]

since tren and deca are progestins (i think thats right) you shouldnt use SERMS for gyno treatment while on any 19nor cycle. this is because nolva upregulates the progesterone receptor, meaning you'll end up with progesterone induced gyno. Although i have read that alot of people have used nolva with tren and havent had any problems, im not real keen
on trying this myself.

Maybe dropping my test down to 350 or something might be my only option at this stage. will dropping the test slightly make much of a difference in gains?

cheers again guys keep it coming

If estrogen is kept under control progesterone or prolactin gyno will not be an issue.

[voshi]

yeah i know this, but for some reason, like i mentioned at the start, taking huge doses of AIs doesnt seem to be doing the job...

[voshi]

so you're saying youve takin tomax on cycle with 19nors alex?

[alexISthrowed]

so you're saying youve takin tomax on cycle with 19nors alex?

Yes numerous times.

[AsEpSiS]

Oh, wow! I've taken nolva while on a test and deca cycle because of itchy nips. 40mg of nolva plus a small dose here and there to keep it at bay, and i was good to go. Of course, it was only covering up the symptoms and not lowering estrogen though.