Looking for help with a modest cycle

[DJ12]

Im 32 and have tried several modest pro-hormones ( H-Drol) and test boosters (6-0x0, DAA, trib etc) I have not experienced positive results with any of these products.
I am 5'8 and weigh 160. I am an ex boxer so im used to training very hard with a mix of anaerobic and aerobic exercises. I have recently realized that I just don't have the same fervor i once had. I also am having a very hard time losing weight. I feel my best when im about 147 ( ex-fighting weight). Im not looking to gain any size I just want to gain strength and burn fat. The H-Drol would have been fantastic however it gave me horrible cramping that i couldn't get over. I just want to find something that gives me a little extra in the aggression department and improve androgenic effects (aggression, dry lean hard look) but with out the muscle pumps and water retention. I should add that I am extremely sensitive to all medications so a low does would be very effective for me. I am open to a test booster but in my experience they have all caused me to bloat very badly. One last thing, i suffer from male pattern baldness so high DHT levels are a deterrent.

I realize i might be being to picky and that maybe i just need to except my aging however if there is anyone out there that has some suggestions i will be very appreciative. Thanks Fellas

[Lunk1]

Have you concidered getting blood work done...you may have low T. It is possible at your age even. This is a good idea no matter, in order to get a base line. First cycles should always be test only to help decipher any side effects! 400-500 mg EW would be great. You also need to read and learn about AI's and PCT's. Much better for you to learn than be told...we are here to help!

[Turkish Juicer]

From everything I have read above, the only reasonable advice for you would be a proper pure injectable Test cycle along with an AI.

Whether you gain or loose BW and whether what you gain or loose will be fat, muscle and/or water will be largely determined by your diet and training regimen.

The most standard beginners cycle advice on this forum is as below:

Week 1-12: Testosterone Enanthate 500mg EW (250mg x2, Monday and Thursday injections); Arimidex 0.25mg EOD or Aromasin 6mg ED in order to control estrogen levels.

You will also have to administer a solid PCT protocol once your cycle is over. You will need two compounds for hormonal recovery which will allow you to maintain your physique as closely as possible to your cycle physique; namely Clomid and Nolvadex

You start your PCT 14 days after your last Test E injection.

Nolvadex 20mg ED for 6 weeks
Clomid 100mg ED for 4 weeks

In order to achieve your goals as stated above, you will have to strictly follow a high protein, low carb (from complex carb sources only) and moderate fat (from healthy sources only) diet. In order to be able to figure all this out and get the best out of your first ''proper'' AAS cycle, you'll have to hit the diet section and state your goals as you did above including your cycle layout as suggested above.

Others will also chime in on this, I am sure.

[MickeyKnox]

Agree with both Members above.

This thread may help you in your search for knowledge.

Most Common Beginners Cycles

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UJZv62fX_fs

[DJ12]

Wow you guys rock. Thanks for such quick responses.

Current:
-weight 160
-14 %BF
-work out 3 times a week
-mainly boxing work out with runing (interval training with hills and sprints
-Diet not where i would like to be be, but avoiding pizza and cheesteaks lol.

Goal
-weight 150
-8 % BF
-work out 6 times a week
-same as above
-diet:

AM
-protein shake 25 g AM
-Quinoa with almond milk and banana
-1 apple
-Multi vitamine

Lunch
-2 sandwitches with stone ground whole wheat bread
-protein shake 25g
-1 apple

Dinner
-Meat (chicken, steak, fish) with veggies and brown rice (generally thai recipe)
-some sort of cheese

Bed
-protein shake
-possible snack on quinoa if hungry

When it comes to diet i am pretty knowledgeable. When i used to fight i got down a pretty good system that felt right for my body and work out.

Suggested cycle: Tes E 500 a week 250 monday and 250 thur, arim .25 eod
pct clom 14 days after last injection, 100 mg ED for 4 weeks.

Is 12 weeks to long?

What kind of shut down should i expect?

Will i be lethargic and depressed when i finish cycle?

I am very sensitive to all sups, can i try 300 or 400 tes e to start? Not looking to get big would just be happy to have test levels at 1000 or so.

Thanks for all the help fellas, it is very appreciated

[Turkish Juicer]

^^^ OP, read my post one more time.

You'll have to hit the diet section too...

[Lunk1]

First that diet looks like a diet fir an 8 year old...eat something would you please?? That looks like less than 2000 cals....
You will be completely shutdown...thats what happens when you replace test with test from a vial

You may consider getting your diet with goals evaluated and you may find AAS is not even something needed!

[Lunk1]

From everything I have read above, the only reasonable advice for you would be a proper pure injectable Test cycle along with an AI.

Whether you gain or loose BW and whether what you gain or loose will be fat, muscle and/or water will be largely determined by your diet and training regimen.

The most standard beginners cycle advice on this forum is as below:

Week 1-12: Testosterone Enanthate 500mg EW (250mg x2, Monday and Thursday injections); Arimidex 0.25mg EOD or Aromasin 6mg ED in order to control estrogen levels.

You will also have to administer a solid PCT protocol once your cycle is over. You will need two compounds for hormonal recovery which will allow you to maintain your physique as closely as possible to your cycle physique; namely Clomid and Nolvadex

You start your PCT 14 days after your last Test E injection.

Nolvadex 20mg ED for 6 weeks
Clomid 100mg ED for 4 weeks Ouch..TJ, 100mg Clomi Ed for 4 weeks?

In order to achieve your goals as stated above, you will have to strictly follow a high protein, low carb (from complex carb sources only) and moderate fat (from healthy sources only) diet. In order to be able to figure all this out and get the best out of your first ''proper'' AAS cycle, you'll have to hit the diet section and state your goals as you did above including your cycle layout as suggested above.

Others will also chime in on this, I am sure.

.....

[MickeyKnox]

You have two big problems here:

1. You're not eating enough.

2. You're not reading what's being presented to you. Slow down and READ what is written and suggested, and read the link that was given to YOU. If you do, you'll quickly realize that administering 100mg/day of Clomid for 4 wks can cause PERMANENT vision impairment. Do i have your attention now?

[DJ12]

I re-read and realized I missed the nolvadex with clomid.

-my diet I listed will consist of a caloric intake of 3500. It also consist of lots of almonds and healthy faty nuts. However I will take ur advice and researcher diet. Remember I do not want to gain.

Will I get lethargic during pct?

Do u suggest 12 weeks?

Thanks

[stpete]

I also do not recommend that much clomid. Especially for a simple test cycle. I use Clomid w/caution. Not only vision issues could occur, but headaches are probable and you might be an emotional basket case. I know all of the above mentioned happened to me and that was only in the second week.

I run test as high as 1,000mgs sometimes and the most i use is 50mgs for 2 weeks and 25mgs for the last 2. nolva is 40/40/40/20.

In your case, i would think 50/50/25/25 would be fine as well.

[DJ12]

Got Mickey thanks! Just saw and read ur attachment. If I decide to move forward I will try option 2. Any thoughts as far as lowering the test a bit? Like down to 400 a week? I always react very sensitively to chemicals.

I will also look in diet section. Remember I am not looking to gain any weight. I just want better recovery and ability to train harder. Thanks for all the help man. Your advice is appreciated

[DJ12]

Yeah I def don't want to be blind or an emotional basket case lol. Any help to avoid those 2 scenarios would be appreciated lol

[MickeyKnox]

Got Mickey thanks! Just saw and read ur attachment. If I decide to move forward I will try option 2. Any thoughts as far as lowering the test a bit? Like down to 400 a week? I always react very sensitively to chemicals.

I will also look in diet section. Remember I am not looking to gain any weight. I just want better recovery and ability to train harder. Thanks for all the help man. Your advice is appreciated

There really is not much of a difference between 400mg and 500mg of Testosterone. If you feel more comfortable using only 400, then by all means. You'll make tremendous gains using 400mg, provided your diet is in check.

[DJ12]

Thanks brotha I appreciate all your help

[MickeyKnox]

Youre welcome.

[Turkish Juicer]

@MickeyKnox,

First of all, I have decided not to advise for PCT protocols on this forum in the future because I happen to disagree with both dosages and lenght of Nolvadex and Clomid. I didn't simply come up with the idea of not giving any more advises not only because you guys have been on my neck about it, but also I realized that there is no point in turning myself into the scape goat of the forum because it is clearly my advise against the advise of many others, a position where I am clearly outnumbered.

As an individual who has used Clomid at 100mg ED for 4 weeks before and typically suffered from the ''vision'' sides, I was well aware of the fact that they weren't going to be permanent. Thus, I figured I was better off with fast & solid recovery as opposed to designing a Clomid dose that revolves around concerns regarding its contemporary sides, because I am not willing to becoming a TRT patient due to poor post-cycle recovery and suffer from low test levels later since I am only in my 30's.

Moreover, when I was doing the most extensive research I could before taking 100mg of Clomid ED throughout PCT, I have come across with many cases where vision became an issue that could be considered ''serious'' with about 1.5% of patients, which all of them were women. Also ran into 2 extreme cases where vision disturbance became a permanent issue for a patients; however, Clomid dosage and lenght of administration were unfortunately not specified in these cases.

Again, I respect the golden principle that ''everybody is different and genuine experiences of others have to considered with attention and respect.'' Therefore, I will not turn this thread into a useless pissing contest where I pull studies and you pull studies, it will only provoke those who have already clearly expressed themselves regarding the unbearable nasty sides such as headaches, elevated mood, serious vision issues etc. caused by Clomid dosed at 100mg. I have no interest in putting anyone's health in danger either.

However, I will send an email to Dr. Micheal Scally who has publicly announced numerous times thus far that his PCT protocol strictly includes 100mg Clomid ED for 4 weeks (along with Nolvadex and HCG Pregnyl, of course) and delivers the best results regarding HTPA recovery and ask him specifically about how nearly 10.000 male patients who were on Clomid @100mg for 4 weeks handled themselves regarding eye health and related vision issues as well as the number of cases where issues as such became a big problem for these patients. He has answered my questions before via email, I am hoping he does again and I will more than willing to share these emails with the rest of the forum members here.

Regards,

TJ

[DJ12]

Awesome! Thank you TJ. I would love to see what the Dr says. I value and appreciate the advice that everyone has provided. I def want to make the right decisions when a lot is at stake. I would hate to have to go on TRT for the rest of my life. That is what prob scares me the most about doing a cycle and why I want to start with a very modest one. I want to see how my body reacts first. I can always do a stronger one later.

[Alinjr]

^^^Good Luck

[MickeyKnox]

Thank you for your response TJ. I always enjoy reading posts that you author - I find them well written and articulate.

Firstly, I want to encourage you to continue to share your opinions on PCT, or anything else, regardless of the numbers or who disagrees. Thats what this Board is for, diverse opinions from a diverse group of individuals who share a commonality. Don't ever allow anyone to sway your opinion simply because the masses say so. If you feel strongly about a topic or something personal, then stick with it with the tenacity of a crab, that's what i do.

Secondly, the vision sides effects that i speak about are based my personal experience and thousands of others who have experiences similar effects which can be read anywhere on the internet with a simple Google. But you're aware of this, as you've experienced these side effects but choose to continue to use Clomid at those doses regardless of your vision impairment. So far this has been temporary for you. I certainly hope you don't find out the hard way one day that Clomid causes irreversible vision impairment. Again these claims can easily be found with simple search. Please bare in mind some of these cases have not been subject to an official study. But that should not negate the result of Clomid use.

However, its for this simple reason that i caution others when using Clomid in protocols that exceed 100mg/wk for durations longer than one week. 1.5% suffering form "serious" vision impairment is 1.5% too much, in my opinion - particularly if it could have be prevented. Personally, i choose to error on the side of caution when giving advice on what i believe to be the safe administration of chemicals or compounds that alter your endocrine system and CNS. Again, this is simply my choice and opinion.

Having said that, i encourage you to continue your correspondence with Dr. Scally, whom i respect very much btw, and share your results with the Board. Im always interested in discovering and learning new ideas.