GENERAL newbie and veteran question. Advice needed.

[DannC]

Hi guys, this is my first thread and hopefully you`ll help me out here with some good advices.
First of all, i am 26 years old, been on a break from gym for 2 years now (unfortunatly),just started again and in 2 months i already see my muscles starting to bounce back bit by bit.
But like any person who used steroids in the past, let`s face it, we are hooked to use it again once we see the miracle of its power
I am not a veteran user but not a novice either...anyway, to make the story short...
We all know Winstrol , Tren , EQ, etc... give you quality muscles. You don`t get like a ballon like with Anadrol , but instead the gains (even tough smaller then with other stuff) are more pure and easier to maintain...

My question is...can anyone more experienced then me give me like the "perfect combination" of these steroids (used simple or even combined together but without any other such as tes, deca , etc.) that would provide safety,extremly quality muscle and no PCT after...?

Some examples would be great...

Thanks alot guys and sorry for the mistakes in writing, Eng is not my 1st language

[Lunk1]

First I would suggest getting a SOLID year of gym time in before considering AAS again! You need time to strengthen your ligiments and tendons in preperation for the added muscle gain! Jumping in after 2 years off from the gym could cause way more damage than good!

Use this time to perfect your diet and knowledge of compounds your considering putting in your body. You can start by reading the link I have attached that was written by my brother from a Canadian mother

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...cles-Look-here

[fit2bOld]

Not gonna happen, the whole no PCT just put the whole idea in the garbage.

Test only with an AI and PCT and HCG during is a quality program.

At this point with only 2 months back at the gym your not ready, give it time and do some research as it is obvious that with your question your not yet educated enough to be cycling.

Not to be harsh just a reality check.....

[anahny]

No pct After?? You saying that proves your not ready for aas. Especially only 2 months in the gym, even though you workout out before taking 2 years off is like starting over. You need more time in the gym and a lot more research before starting any cycle. 2014 might be your year.

[ma_fighter]

First I would suggest getting a SOLID year of gym time in before considering AAS again! You need time to strengthen your ligiments and tendons in preperation for the added muscle gain! Jumping in after 2 years off from the gym could cause way more damage than good!
This^^

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...cles-Look-here
This^^ as well as all the stickies

Not gonna happen, the whole no PCT just put the whole idea in the garbage.
This^^ No PCT? dude, just forget about AAS for the time being, read read and read.

At this point with only 2 months back at the gym your not ready, give it time and do some research as it is obvious that with your question your not yet educated enough to be cycling.

Real good solid advice given here, I hope you'll listen to it. Too many just disregard what they're told because it's not what they want to hear.
No one here will benefit from, or take any joy in holding you back, or give you bad info.

Many of the people here, that take time from their own lives to help others, do so because they've done the same newbie mistakes themselves, and want to spare other people going through the same pile of utter misery that they've had to endure at one point in their life.

Your muscles will outgrow your tendons and ligaments in a very short amount of time - this is a recipe for disaster and months or years of rehab.
Not enough knowledge - also a recipe for disaster, and possibly life-altering complications down the road.
Not having diet in check - Waste of time, money and health doing any kind of AAS.

/Maf

[songdog]

I agree with the above your not ready.But in the mean time do some research.This way when the time comes you will know wat you are doing.

[DannC]

Real good solid advice given here, I hope you'll listen to it. Too many just disregard what they're told because it's not what they want to hear.
No one here will benefit from, or take any joy in holding you back, or give you bad info.

Many of the people here, that take time from their own lives to help others, do so because they've done the same newbie mistakes themselves, and want to spare other people going through the same pile of utter misery that they've had to endure at one point in their life.

Your muscles will outgrow your tendons and ligaments in a very short amount of time - this is a recipe for disaster and months or years of rehab.
Not enough knowledge - also a recipe for disaster, and possibly life-altering complications down the road.
Not having diet in check - Waste of time, money and health doing any kind of AAS.

/Maf

Thank you and i am mature enought to listen even if there isn`t what i am hoping for
Thank all of you for your advices. I will wait.
But really more for as curiosity... let`s say considering PCT with Nolvadex and Pregnyl and Aromasin ...done by the book...could someone combine these into a "perfect cycle"? I am very curiouse because also when i used before normal cycles tested by others, i was big and bulk with actually a little belly, and it didn`t mather, as long as i got bigger...
Now i am more for quality then quantity, and i want also to grow the mucles not necesarly fast or big but slowly (as slow as you can build with AAS ), ripped and to be quality.

I will take your advice guys and wait for it. Gym is still going up so i can wait untill i reach those limits when gains are slowing down, and like you guys said, untill the body gets more used with effort, weight, force and so on...
Plus yes, i know i have alot more to learn, that`s why in the past i used cycle used by others and just saw what i could handle and what not...

[ma_fighter]

Glad to hear you're taking it slow.
It's not the AAS that will determine if your gains are lean or not, its your diet. If you're not lean when you start your cycle you wont be when you finish either.

If your goal is to look shredded and hard, then you will need to do the following:

#1 - Get your diet in check, as close to perfect as you can get it. You'll NEED to have a solid diet to be able to stay ripped.
#2 - Get down to 10%'ish body fat, or therearound, lower if you can do it.
#3 - Keep working out the entire time, be consistent about it, failing to do this will mean that your tendons and ligament will not be able to handle the strain of the added muscle, once you decide to start doing AAS.
#4 - In a year, or two, when you've reached sub 10% BF, and have been consistently working out, and know how to eat, and know what kind of training works best for YOU, then, if you still want to, you can do a cycle of:

Get bloodwork done before and after cycling, first to determine a baseline, and then to see if you have recovered properly.

Week 1-10 - Test E or C - 400-500mg/wk, depending on the concentration available to you, preferebly divided into two shots
Week 1-10 - An AI, Aromasin if you can get it at 12,5mg eod, or arimidex at 25 mg eod
Week 3-12 - hCG 250iu twice a week (pregnyl). I say week 3-12 because I know its available in 5000iu's and you'll want to run it past your last shot.

If using Enanthate or Cypionate then your PCT will start two weeks after your last shot, and continue for 4 weeks.
I'd say that using Nolvadex at a daily dose of 40/40/20/20mg's will be sufficient PCT, based on a study I once read, but some will argue that Nolva + Clomid is superior, and I really cant make an argument for either protocol, so do as you please.

MickeyKnox has got a good collection of newbie-cycles somewhere, I thought it'd be a sticky by now, but I'll see if I can find it. Def. worth reading, as well as all the stickies.

/Maf

Found the post, here it is
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UN2ArW80V8E

[Alinjr]

PCT is a must. Unless you cruise that is...

[fit2bOld]

Thank you and i am mature enought to listen even if there isn`t what i am hoping for
Thank all of you for your advices. I will wait.
But really more for as curiosity... let`s say considering PCT with Nolvadex and Pregnyl and Aromasin ...done by the book...could someone combine these into a "perfect cycle"? I am very curiouse because also when i used before normal cycles tested by others, i was big and bulk with actually a little belly, and it didn`t mather, as long as i got bigger...
Now i am more for quality then quantity, and i want also to grow the mucles not necesarly fast or big but slowly (as slow as you can build with AAS ), ripped and to be quality.

I will take your advice guys and wait for it. Gym is still going up so i can wait untill i reach those limits when gains are slowing down, and like you guys said, untill the body gets more used with effort, weight, force and so on...
Plus yes, i know i have alot more to learn, that`s why in the past i used cycle used by others and just saw what i could handle and what not...

Here is the opportunity in this. Since your still asking for information that you should know before cycling great time to get educated. Take some time research the compounds and what they do. When using them you will know why and can be confident in executing a good cycle from which you can keep the gains.

When your done researching and are ready to go post a new thread with your proposed cycle start to finish for critique before you start. Then have ALL your compounds in hand before beginning.

Plenty of us to help you along then way, the guys in the nutrition section will help out with that as well, this will be a key to success more than the AAS.

FIT

[ma_fighter]

Here is the opportunity in this. Since your still asking for information that you should know before cycling great time to get educated. Take some time research the compounds and what they do. When using them you will know why and can be confident in executing a good cycle from which you can keep the gains.

When your done researching and are ready to go post a new thread with your proposed cycle start to finish for critique before you start. Then have ALL your compounds in hand before beginning.

Plenty of us to help you along then way, the guys in the nutrition section will help out with that as well, this will be a key to success more than the AAS.

FIT

What FIT said

[kelkel]

Great recommendation MA. The only thing I would consider is changing the length of the cycle to at least 12 weeks based on the ester. If aromasin is used I'd do 6 daily if possible for more stable levels.

You and Fit nailed it!

kel

[ma_fighter]

Great recommendation MA. The only thing I would consider is changing the length of the cycle to at least 12 weeks based on the ester. If aromasin is used I'd do 6 daily if possible for more stable levels.

You and Fit nailed it!

kel

Thanks!
Agreed on the Aromasin, if I recall correctly it has a halflife of around 27 hours, and is better off doing ED, its just an issue of splitting a tab 4 ways.

The 10 weeks is simply because that's an even number you'll get out of 2x10ml vials, if doing amps, or saving the third vial for later, I absolutely agree that 12 weeks is better.

IMO fronting is always the way to go though, because you reach stable bloodlevels that much quicker, and in such a case 10 weeks would be sufficient, however then 2 vials wont do the trick anymore, and you might as well do 12w.

Cheers
/Maf

[Lunk1]

Thanks!
Agreed on the Aromasin , if I recall correctly it has a halflife of around 27 hours, and is better off doing ED, its just an issue of splitting a tab 4 ways.

The 10 weeks is simply because that's an even number you'll get out of 2x10ml vials, if doing amps, or saving the third vial for later, I absolutely agree that 12 weeks is better.

IMO fronting is always the way to go though, because you reach stable bloodlevels that much quicker, and in such a case 10 weeks would be sufficient, however then 2 vials wont do the trick anymore, and you might as well do 12w.

Cheers
/Maf

Have you ever actually frontloaded? Have you seen a significant benefit? Just wondering because I have found it a waste myself...

[ma_fighter]

I have fronted, yes, and noticed increased libido much quicker. As far as gains go I couldnt really say, but as I like to quantify everything I get myself into, I did some maths and came to the conclusion that there's really no reason not to front, if you got the gear.
You'll only get a slight advantage over the first couple of weeks, but a slight advantage and more stable bloodlevels are better then no advantage at all IMO.

Lets say you're using something 1000mg/week with a 7 day halflife, then the levels of gear in your body thats still estered would look something like this:
First shot is 1000mg, after one week half of that is left and you introduce another 1000mg totaling 1500mg, one week after that 750mg is left, and another 1000mg is introduced, and so on.

Week............ No front loading...................Frontloading
1 ....................................1000mg........ .......................2000mg
2.................500+1000mg= 1500mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg <<Instantly stable Test-levels
3.................750+1000mg= 1750mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg
4.................875+1000mg= 1875mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg
5.................937+1000mg= 1937mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg
6.................968+1000mg= 1968mg..........1000+1000mg= 2000mg

This is of course generalized and not 100% accurate as I used a 7 day halflife, and a study I red a few days ago measured TE's halflife to 9-11 days, but the longer the ester, the bigger the advantages of frontloading.
Just my take on the whole subject

/Maf

[Lunk1]

I guess I'm more interested in actual results than charts and quantified mathmatical tables. I've not seen any noticable results nor have I heard from countless ppl that they have noticed better results.

The notion that you should inject more if you have it is the opposite from my thought pattern. I say only use what you need to achieve desired results, if you have extra there is always the next cycle!

I'm not saying you or anyone who chooses to frontload is wrong...just seems like a bit of a waste if there is not a note worthy benifit!

[ma_fighter]

Back when I was juicing, I was also brewing, and had plenty of stuff to spare, so not fronting never even crossed my mind.

If I were to cycle again today, I'd still probably front, and cut it a week short instead if need be, if I was on cyp or enan. Not fronting means that 20 days in, you're still 12'ish% short of maximum levels. But the length of the cycle would also be a factor I would consider. The shorter the cycle, the more use you'd get from fronting.

I just feel better knowing my levels are already stable, and gains are coming on fully from w2, but thats just personal preference.

I haven't really thought about it that way before, but using the same amount of juice, fronting or going 1 week longer probably wont make a difference, but to me saving 1 week makes more sense.


If I were to do something with a decanoate, undecylenate or undecanoate ester however, I would absolutely front it. The undecanoate has a crazy halflife of 21-29 days! Getting levels up more quickly in such a case would probably be more quite a bit more beneficial than using a week longer.

Again, this is just theory, and I'm guessing the gains either way, in the given timespan (+/-1 week) will for most people be so small as to be hard to notice.
Just going over this in my head I realize that adding an extra 1% mass each week on average, because of higher levels up front vs lengthening the cycle by 10% will not make a difference in the end.

Sweet! Then all it comes down to is personal preference

[ma_fighter]

Oh, and if you find my posts erratic and hard to follow, it's usually because I figure stuff out as I'm typing :P
Hence why I also tend to write allot more then necessary!

/Maf

[kelkel]

Interesting "watching" you think MA!

kel

[DannC]

Thanks alot guys for all your advices.
I will keep them in mind and take it easy, i have time and i am in no rush...even tough like a past user "it itches" to start "just a little bit" I took in the past also Insulin but the thing was always i read alot of anything i was about to take and i never got greedy, especially with something like Insuline that can sugar crash you in a coma... so it`s no problem waiting.
I also know some things about PCT but actually i didn`t tought it was such a MUST even when not on that strong and estrogenic subtances...

I saw your adviced, alot of them with Test E or C as a good base for first cycles and they sound very interesting, but saw also on some other site different charts of AAS, and i think when the time will be right and my knowledge more richer, i would go more with steroids like Winstrol , Primobolan , Anavar , and so on... stuff that don`t give me that much power or mass like others, but instead the gains are easier to keep (now i know, always with a nice PCT ) and the quality should me more high, without "the wather retention" as they wrongly reffer to it...
My diet is very good, my cardio since i started is for around 7km on tredmill in 40 min, enought to burn almost 500 calories plus the sweet effect of the afterburn...so i think i am in check.

Don`t know if it mathers now but i forgot to say i am 97 kg, 195 cm and BF around 15-16%...

You all are swell guys and thank you all again for your advices. I see i have alot more to learn...
And for anahny, even tough i said i came back to gym after 2 years, it is not really like i begin again, cause with diet, a shiiiiit lot of cardio and some will, i already see some real damn improvements, the muscle memory is there...think i should put some picture profile soon