Gram a week? Advice or Input

[Metal1877]

Hi guys, i am currently starting to run 1000 cyp a week and considering throwing in 40 dbol. I am wanting to pack on as much mass as possible for the next 12 weeks. Diet is on point and have letro and novaldex on hand. Just looking for some advice or info if anyone has run a similar cycle before. Not looking for any bashing for running a g a week but do not mind constructive criticism.

[Bio-Active]

Cycle experience? Whats your PCT plan? Why not run HCG during the cycle?

[Lunk1]

PLEASE tell me you are using an AI running a test dose like that???

[Bio-Active]

PLEASE tell me you are using an AI running a test dose like that???

Absolutely... ugh i should have caught that!

[Metal1877]

I have ran atleast 7 or more legit cycles in my life. My PCT will be Clomid and Novaldex, with possibly HCG.Im currently running novaldex but have letro on hand if need. As far as HCG, i have never ran it on cycle. As stupid as this will seem especially with the amount of cycles i have done, i have never looked HARD into PCT because i have always kept gains and somehow never crashed afterwards. That said, i am going to be pin point on pct with this

[Metal1877]

I have ran atleast 7 or more legit cycles in my life. My PCT will be Clomid and Novaldex, with possibly HCG.Im currently running novaldex but have letro on hand if need. As far as HCG, i have never ran it on cycle. As stupid as this will seem especially with the amount of cycles i have done, i have never looked HARD into PCT because i have always kept gains and somehow never crashed afterwards. That said, i am going to be pin point on pct with this. My stats are 35 yrs old, 6'1 215 about 8% bf

[Bio-Active]

Post up your PCT plans. hcg need to be run during the cycle and you should get an AI to control E on cycle. What are your stats?

[Lunk1]

You really NEED to run an AI on cycle. Letro is the last one I would consider as it is very suppresive. You should consider a Aromasin or Adex and run it...not just have on hand!

Def run HCG through cycle as well. Tis will help the recovery process and help avoid atrophy!

[Sgt. Hartman]

Run an AI like exemestane or arimidex for on cycle and save the nolva for pct unless gyno issues start. Hcg on cycle can help a ton for recovery and pct because the testes will never be truly shut down.

Other than that, sounds good. Have fun!

[songdog]

You ran 7 cycles and now you want to run a gram of test! Wat are you trying to make up for a bad diet? You are only going to grow so much on each cycle.Guys have ran 4 times that many cycles still dont run a gram.But their diets are good and they are big.Just sayin

[Metal1877]

songd i agree with your statement, but no i am not remotely trying to make up for bad diet. I am actually a trainer that travels this country specializing in weight loss programs and dieting. So my meal plan is def on point sir. I personally don't see why running a gram on test and some dbol is sooo wrong. When its ok to run 500 of three or 4 compounds. that equals one to two grams a week. I wish someone could logically tell me how im so wrong

[austinite]

I rarely ever see the need for a gram of test, but to each his own. Run that AI brother.

[warmouth]

I personally don't see why running a gram on test and some dbol is sooo wrong. When its ok to run 500 of three or 4 compounds. that equals one to two grams a week. I wish someone could logically tell me how im so wrong

Nothing is wrong with it per se. It is just more than is needed and is more likley than not going to cause more sides and bloat. AIs arent used "on hand", they should be used while "on". Letro is a last resort. I would wait before you start and make sure you have aromasin or adex ready and use them right away. People usually dont use 500mgs of several compounds either. Alot of, if not most, use only a tiny bit of test as a base to keepnormal body function (and keep sides to a minum) and use a primary compound like tren, deca, primo, etc. There is really no need in using that much test. I would much rather run 250mgs of test a week and 500mgs of deca. Techincally there should be less aromatization as long as E2 levels are in check (from the AI). That much test is really going to be hard to control your E2 levels, cholesterol, BP, bloat, etc.

[Sgt. Hartman]

songd i agree with your statement, but no i am not remotely trying to make up for bad diet. I am actually a trainer that travels this country specializing in weight loss programs and dieting. So my meal plan is def on point sir. I personally don't see why running a gram on test and some dbol is sooo wrong. When its ok to run 500 of three or 4 compounds. that equals one to two grams a week. I wish someone could logically tell me how im so wrong

It's not wrong....if you've gotten all the gains you can out of lower dosed cycles and you get your ancillaries squared away to run it safely then have at it.

[Metal1877]

Thanks for all the education and advice guys. Last i do understand letro is very suppresive and it is advised to run something else but would i be wrong in using say .5 eod or something along those lines?

[Bio-Active]

Thanks for all the education and advice guys. Last i do understand letro is very suppresive and it is advised to run something else but would i be wrong in using say .5 eod or something along those lines?

You need to run an AI on cycle

[Sgt. Hartman]

Nothing is wrong with it per se. It is just more than is needed and is more likley than not going to cause more sides and bloat. AIs arent used "on hand", they should be used while "on". Letro is a last resort. I would wait before you start and make sure you have aromasin or adex ready and use them right away. People usually dont use 500mgs of several compounds either. Alot of, if not most, use only a tiny bit of test as a base to keepnormal body function (and keep sides to a minum) and use a primary compound like tren, deca, primo, etc. There is really no need in using that much test. I would much rather run 250mgs of test a week and 500mgs of deca. Techincally there should be less aromatization as long as E2 levels are in check (from the AI). That much test is really going to be hard to control your E2 levels, cholesterol, BP, bloat, etc.

I've found this to not be true....an here's why I think so. The rate of aromatization (and total E levels) is based on the total amount of aromatase in the body. Obviously the amount of aromatase is dependent on a lot of different factors but the amount of test, endo or exo is not a major factor. So we control aromatase with an ai so it's a somewhat fixed variable. So why does it matter whether you run 500mg or 1g of test if aromatase is a constant level? Higher test levels can't cause the fixed amount of aromatase to convert more regardless of how high T is.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Thanks for all the education and advice guys. Last i do understand letro is very suppresive and it is advised to run something else but would i be wrong in using say .5 eod or something along those lines?

It's hard to get your dose right with letro because it's so strong, and it's also terrible on your lipid values.

You can get exemestane or arimidex from the banner at the top of the screen.

[Metal1877]

do you guys believe the research chems products would work on a lab rat taking the same compounds?

[Sgt. Hartman]

Yep.

[likelifting]

A gram a week sounds like fun, but I'd probably run less, 600ish, and run for 16 weeks if you have the time.

[warmouth]

I've found this to not be true....an here's why I think so. The rate of aromatization (and total E levels) is based on the total amount of aromatase in the body. Obviously the amount of aromatase is dependent on a lot of different factors but the amount of test, endo or exo is not a major factor. So we control aromatase with an ai so it's a somewhat fixed variable. So why does it matter whether you run 500mg or 1g of test if aromatase is a constant level? Higher test levels can't cause the fixed amount of aromatase to convert more regardless of how high T is.

I am saying that in response to him saying that "people run 500mgs of 3 or 4 differnet compounds which equal up to 2 grams". I am saying that it is easier to control at a TRT dose and running a primary higher, which would be true and I would recommend over 1000mgs of test. I dont have to use an AI on my TRT dose of 150mgs weekly.

[warmouth]

YES! Ar-r has great products and is all I use. If you do decide to use the gram, I would also pick up someof their liquid Cia as well and take 10mgs E3Ds or EOD to help control any BP issue you might have and it is also alot of fun! Good luck!

[Metal1877]

Thanks again guys........awesome to be able to find somewhere with the wealth of info

[warmouth]

Thanks again guys........awesome to be able to find somewhere with the wealth of info

Your welcome. You can be sure AR will be totally legit. You'll love the Cia.

[kelkel]

I've found this to not be true....an here's why I think so. The rate of aromatization (and total E levels) is based on the total amount of aromatase in the body. Obviously the amount of aromatase is dependent on a lot of different factors but the amount of test, endo or exo is not a major factor. So we control aromatase with an ai so it's a somewhat fixed variable. So why does it matter whether you run 500mg or 1g of test if aromatase is a constant level? Higher test levels can't cause the fixed amount of aromatase to convert more regardless of how high T is.

This is absolutely correct and many fail to realize it. Only so much of the enzyme is in each of us. It does not increase in correlation to the amount of aromatizable aas injected. You pass a certain threshold, whatever that may be per individual, and it really makes no difference.

That said, the op needs an AI on cycle. Too many people use gyno symptoms as their only guide. Big mistake.

kel

[Lunk1]

Sounds like you got it dialed in...I agree with Sarge on the Letro...I would avoid it unless I actually started experiencing gyno. Aromason/Stane would be my choice for this cycle. Please consider posting your cycle and running a log in the members cycle section. I have and am considering a gram or more run myself, your right about the fact many run a combined stack of nearly a gram or more frequently and a gram is not out of line for an experienced user!

[songdog]

songd i agree with your statement, but no i am not remotely trying to make up for bad diet. I am actually a trainer that travels this country specializing in weight loss programs and dieting. So my meal plan is def on point sir. I personally don't see why running a gram on test and some dbol is sooo wrong. When its ok to run 500 of three or 4 compounds. that equals one to two grams a week. I wish someone could logically tell me how im so wrong

I have always believed less is better.I have never ran more than 2 compounds at once.Some guys do but I think they just read to many Mags about the Pros.But a lot of the guys that do I am not impressed with.But I wish you good luck

[MuscleInk]

I have always believed less is better.I have never ran more than 2 compounds at once.Some guys do but I think they just read to many Mags about the Pros.But a lot of the guys that do I am not impressed with.But I wish you good luck

^^^ Ditto. I ran 2.4G this summer. I didn't really care for it and felt diminishing returns. Side effects were more frequent, harder to control, and in general I felt a lot more fatigued than usual. I'd rather run cycles with less gear in the future and I suspect that like most drugs AAS follow a similar inverted U curve. Increasing doses yield increased effects to a point, then the side effects and negative outcomes increase (or at the very least returns diminish) with incremental doses.

[warmouth]

You guys do understand wht I was referring to from the earlier post, right? I am not saying that E2 is differentin 1000mgs or 500mgs,only that most guys who run several compounds normal run TRT doses to keep aromatization downand use higher doses of the primary(which is normally non aromatizing, like tren or primo). Personally,I think test ran lower is the best bet for guys running 2 or more compounds in order to usea minimal AI, if any.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Yea, all good.

Interesting topic regardless.

[Lunk1]

^^^ Ditto. I ran 2.4G this summer. I didn't really care for it and felt diminishing returns. Side effects were more frequent, harder to control, and in general I felt a lot more fatigued than usual. I'd rather run cycles with less gear in the future and I suspect that like most drugs AAS follow a similar inverted U curve. Increasing doses yield increased effects to a point, then the side effects and negative outcomes increase (or at the very least returns diminish) with incremental doses.

2.4 G test or total compounds?

[DanB]

OP you have ran 7 cycles and stats more impressive then majority on this forum, I consider a gram of test a mild-ish cycle, not one for beginners but your 7 down already so I dont think anybody can say your running too much, and your diet cant be as bad as some think with those stats, Im willing to bet that it is infact alot better then most peoples, myself included at this current moment in time

You sound like you already have a good grip on what your doing, my only concern is the letro, I dont care for it much as I cant get the dosage right, for me I prefer adex, I have ran a gram and higher, closer to 1.6g if you include suspension preworkout and found a sweetspot at .334mg adex ed, I have room to play around and at .5mg ed i could feel it was too high but I hade enough time to lower it before an E2 crash, with letro you may not have the luxury of time to lower, ya may just crash and then feel terrible for a week, thats all I can say really, Sarge had it all covered

Be interested in your expereince though and if you could give this thread a bump in few weeks with update on stats?

Have fun

[human project]

Hi guys, i am currently starting to run 1000 cyp a week and considering throwing in 40 dbol. I am wanting to pack on as much mass as possible for the next 12 weeks. Diet is on point and have letro and novaldex on hand. Just looking for some advice or info if anyone has run a similar cycle before. Not looking for any bashing for running a g a week but do not mind constructive criticism.

If what you are looking for is overall mass gain the. 1 gram of test a week will do much more then 2-3G cycles of multiple compounds.... I've done many stacks and combos of everything you could imagine and this past summer I went with 1,250mg a week and it was by far my best cycle as far as mass is concerned....

[MuscleInk]

2.4 G test or total compounds?

2.4G SuperT

[Allaaro]

Don't see the problem with running a gram, should see good results. But agree with everyone here on adding an AI at that dosage.

I guess my mind is in the gutter sometimes since 7 cycles in I think 1gram of test is normal to try. People running totals mg's lot more then that with EQ/deca/tren/etc. A pure 1g test is a nice cycle to see how you are on test alone. If you don't see any better results from previous cycles though...drop it back down. If you love it, keep it at a gram for future if everything is a-ok.

[AD]

I've found this to not be true....an here's why I think so. The rate of aromatization (and total E levels) is based on the total amount of aromatase in the body. Obviously the amount of aromatase is dependent on a lot of different factors but the amount of test, endo or exo is not a major factor. So we control aromatase with an ai so it's a somewhat fixed variable. So why does it matter whether you run 500mg or 1g of test if aromatase is a constant level? Higher test levels can't cause the fixed amount of aromatase to convert more regardless of how high T is.

This is absolutely correct and many fail to realize it. Only so much of the enzyme is in each of us. It does not increase in correlation to the amount of aromatizable aas injected. You pass a certain threshold, whatever that may be per individual, and it really makes no difference.

That said, the op needs an AI on cycle. Too many people use gyno symptoms as their only guide. Big mistake.

kel

really interesting points! i never thought about things that way. so do you guys increase AI when you run higher dose cycles? or stick to the same AI dose as a 500mg/wk cycle?

EDIT:
i assume your responses may not be the same for both aromasin and arimidex.

[MuscleInk]

really interesting points! i never thought about things that way. so do you guys increase AI when you run higher dose cycles? or stick to the same AI dose as a 500mg/wk cycle?

EDIT:
i assume your responses may not be the same for both aromasin and arimidex.

When I was running 2.4G I kept my Adex the same (0.25 mg EOD). My E2 shot up to 295!!!! I was asymptomatic except for increasing fatigue and longer recovery from work outs than normal (muscle pain and stiffness). Bumped my AI to 0.25mg daily for two weeks and dropped my E2 to 56 and then returned to Adex @ 0.25mg EOD.

If I ever run 1G of test (or test blends) again, I'll be using aromasin. Didn't test my lipids at .25mg daily dose for 2 wks but I'm sure they would have been worse than they are at lower test doses with .25mg EOD.

[AD]

When I was running 2.4G I kept my Adex the same (0.25 mg EOD). My E2 shot up to 295!!!! I was asymptomatic except for increasing fatigue and longer recovery from work outs than normal (muscle pain and stiffness). Bumped my AI to 0.25mg daily for two weeks and dropped my E2 to 56 and then returned to Adex @ 0.25mg EOD.

If I ever run 1G of test (or test blends) again, I'll be using aromasin. Didn't test my lipids at .25mg daily dose for 2 wks but I'm sure they would have been worse than they are at lower test doses with .25mg EOD.

i always thought that with increase in substrate (testosterone), there should be increase in enzyme-substrate binding, up till a point where you reach total saturation state. but total saturation may be a theoretical state more commonly seen in the lab, and very hard to reach in the human body.

considering a competitive inhibitor like arimidex, which binds only reversibly with aromatase, increase in circulation test logically might shift the curve in favor of aromatisation. hence a higher dose may be needed for a higher dose cycle.

good illustration Ink.
did you get a relapse of high E after dropping your adex back to eod?

[MuscleInk]

i always thought that with increase in substrate (testosterone), there should be increase in enzyme-substrate binding, up till a point where you reach total saturation state. but total saturation may be a theoretical state more commonly seen in the lab, and very hard to reach in the human body.

considering a competitive inhibitor like arimidex, which binds only reversibly with aromatase, increase in circulation test logically might shift the curve in favor of aromatisation. hence a higher dose may be needed for a higher dose cycle.

good illustration Ink.
did you get a relapse of high E after dropping your adex back to eod?

It's starting to creep up (71 last week) so I recently started dosing Adex at .5mg EOD to finish this cycle. I'm drawing more blood Next Monday to check everything. Still asymptomatic and no fatigue or soreness as before. Don't want to crash my E but certainly don't want triple digits again!

In all honesty, I was shocked my E2 ran up like that. The Adex is pharm grade from A***Z****** so I don't worry about potency or legitimacy. As you expressed, I assumed there would be a (theoretical) saturation point where the degree of aromatization would level off. It was serendipitous that I discovered the problem. I was feeling a little winded in my work outs and ran a CBC and CMP to look at hemoglobin and RBCs and decided to test for serum E levels as well as PSA. I almost jumped out of my skin when the lab report came back with the E2 that high. First time I've had that happen but also the first time I've run a highly concentrated blend. I sort of assumed that the typical Adex dose would suffice. I expected possibly a slightly higher elevation in E2 but nothing that drastic. I haven't run aromasin before but in lieu of the elevated E and the effects Adex on lipids (my lipids take a beating every time I cycle no matter what the gear), I'm looking to aromasin the next time I cycle.

It made for an interesting clinical case study.....I just wish I wasn't the subject! Lol