first real cycle dbol/test e/winny

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 01:27 AM

ok so im about to run a 14 week cycle with d bol test e and winny, ive ran d bol alone and had great gains and kept all of it plus more . I tried to run the test with the dbol but my first shot was so painful and gave me a huge red spot and knot in my tricep, pinned my delt. yes everything was sterile and now ive got some grape seed oil to cut it and lower the BA. nolva for post and letro for gyno prev.

I have 180; 15mg dbol
14 weeks test e 250
100 winni 25 mg

I planned to do dbol weeks 1-8 ;45 mg
test 1-14; twice a week
winni ??? not to sure, as I dont wanna run 2 orals to close to close together
letro 14-15
nolva 14-16
also fishoil,milkthistle,liveraid, and gallon + water aday

any opinions and suggestions very much appreciated

**SportbikerKid** · 01-09-2013, 01:37 AM

generally, don't run dbol more than 6 weeks
If you gotta run winny, run it during the last 4 weeks at 50-75mg ED
You must run an AI on cycle. Starting from the first day of the cycle lasting through pct. Especially with the dbol.
Letro is generally not included in a conservative cycle because it is too strong and will nuke all estro
run nolva+clomid starting 2 weeks after the last pin for pct. Run both for at least 4 weeks at standard PCT dosages.
think about adding hcg . Personally, I think hcg is too hard to get because domestic UGL's never carry it, and I would never buy from overseas sources/websites. But it will help with recovery.
This is a fairly strong cycle for a second go, and you seem like you still have alot of research to do.
Keep reading and don't start the cycle yet.

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 01:49 AM

ya I originally was ganna run the dbol for 5 weeks but a knowledgeable resource told me 180 tabs would be the max amount so I decided to post here and see what other ppl had to say, and I planned to do the winni the last4 weeks for aswell 9-14 but if the dbol was to last thru week 8 I didn't wanna run the winni..and ive ran letro on my dbol cycle ant d it didn't do shit I think my nip is still tender and im prolly 5 months off...CLOMID I have that aswell but have read it can make ur eyes bad as a side, my eyes are already terrible.. and as for research ive been reading these threads for over a year..and on every thread I see one thing then another.. everyone has their own opinion and their body reacts different ways

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 01:51 AM

i actually will prolly use tomox for my pct i have 3 times and it works great as for keeping gains plus more

**SportbikerKid** · 01-09-2013, 02:09 AM

Well here would be a textbook cycle with the compounds you're considering:

Weeks 1-14: Test E 500/wk divided into 2 shots
Weeks 1-6: Dbol 45mg/day
Weeks 11-14: Winny 75/day
Adex .25mg EOD weeks 1-16 (may want to up it during the dbol, and decrease during the winny but you'll have to decide this based on sides)
Weeks 17-20 PCT with nolva 40/20/20/20 and clomid 75/50/50/50

You may want to consider adding hcg . Take care of the gyno BEFORE you start this cycle. If you got gyno on a standard dose of letro, then your letro was probably bunk. Order legit Serms and Ai's from AR-R

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 11:01 AM

ya that looks about what i originally planned on doing.. except only 50 winny , and everyone keeps telling me my nips ok but its my right nip is tender and has a lil ball behind it.. and the ae-r is all legit gear?

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 11:04 AM

and would u advise using letro to get rid of it?

**largerthannormal** · 01-09-2013, 11:04 AM

ar-r you mean, and all their research chemicals are real and very good

**Soar** · 01-09-2013, 11:04 AM

Oh dear.. Don't run all that for a first cycle.. You'll see great results running just test 500mg/week. I'd personally wait a few years tho. 21 is a bit young yet.

**Scottyb13** · 01-09-2013, 11:10 AM

What's the rest of your stats height weight bf % gym history and how's your diet now?

**marcus300** · 01-09-2013, 11:12 AM

cycle isnt good

whats your age?
bf?
how long have you been training?

**Granovich** · 01-09-2013, 11:17 AM

Why no one asked about the OP stats?

**Granovich** · 01-09-2013, 11:17 AM

Oppps didnt see Marcus post :P

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 11:24 AM

just wanted the dbol for a jumpstart till the test kicked it
6 ft203.3 lbs
10% bf
been lifting about 5 years but only count the last 2 of knowing what i was doing.
my diet is pretty solid in my opinion, breakfast-dinner. consist of oatmeal with bannanas , 5 egg whites 1 yolk, every now and then steak n eggs, aloooooot of chicken brown rice and veggies, tilapia, tuna, sardines, some red meats not to much, and more but those are the main things i was about 8% bf during the summer but gained some because of increased work hours and bulking for winter of course.

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by largerthannormal

ar-r you mean, and all their research chemicals are real and very good

yes and thanks

**marcus300** · 01-09-2013, 11:34 AM

how old are you?

**Scottyb13** · 01-09-2013, 11:36 AM

What's your age

**Soar** · 01-09-2013, 11:36 AM

Profile says 21

**Scottyb13** · 01-09-2013, 11:43 AM

If this age is true, then I would gain what you gain naturally til your ATLEAST 26.. This is just my opinion... Risk and health factors

**Back In Black** · 01-09-2013, 11:53 AM

I'm impressed you kept all your gains and more from your d'bol only cycle. I've never kept more than I've gained

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by SteM

I'm impressed you kept all your gains and more from your d'bol only cycle. I've never kept more than I've gained

ya a lot were surprised, my liquid tomox helped me gain a lil then i was still gaining after that as well.. i recently took about a month off because i was working 445-630 throwing semi tires all day and i was to physically exhausted to workout.. jus im about a week back in and i pretty much have it all.. maybe minus a rep or two but im sure muscle memory will take care of that

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 12:00 PM

and i just tured 21 2 days ago lol

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 12:02 PM

i think my body reacts really good with orals ive taken a few pro horomones and gained 20 lbs my first one and about 10-15 with the other...my last cycle and first time with dbol was by far my favorite with strength and maintaining gains..just doesn't give me as much of a drive/craziness as the ph's did.

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by JayIsPumped

i think my body reacts really good with orals ive taken a few pro horomones and gained 20 lbs my first one and about 10-15 with the other...my last cycle and first time with dbol was by far my favorite with strength and maintaining gains..just doesn't give me as much of a drive/craziness as the ph's did.

with the others* taken 5 pro horomones

**Granovich** · 01-09-2013, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Scottyb13

If this age is true, then I would gain what you gain naturally til your ATLEAST 26.. This is just my opinion... Risk and health factors

whats with age thing everyday changing
it used to be 24 then 25 and now 26 atleast ?

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Granovich

whats with age thing everyday changing
it used to be 24 then 25 and now 26 atleast ?

i always see ppl saying 21..thats why ive waited.. i can gain naturally still but not as fast as i want to that's the only thing..and ive taken stuff before so i just love the feeling and gains u see every week. wish i never had taken anything to be honest so i wouldn't know how great it is

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 03:15 PM

also if i were to run an AI thru my whole cycle would tomox be appropriate ? ppl at gym tell me that's ok.

any suggestions on a good AI and a good layout on it? thanks

**Scottyb13** · 01-09-2013, 03:16 PM

No my personal opinion has always been 26. Do u know how hard it was for me to have to wait til I was 26? At 22 I wanted the same thing. To look like a gorilla on a tricycle when on my street bike. But knew I needed to wait til 26. Just my opinion

**stpete** · 01-09-2013, 03:19 PM

Cycle and PCT both are no good.

Besides, you are also 21 and that's a little on the young side. Not worth taking the chance of damaging endocrine system in my opinion.

**Alinjr** · 01-09-2013, 03:22 PM

Like they have already said. Too young.

**SG2009** · 01-09-2013, 03:40 PM

make sure your diet is good!!

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by stpete

Cycle and PCT both are no good.

Besides, you are also 21 and that's a little on the young side. Not worth taking the chance of damaging endocrine system in my opinion.

plz explain more why cyc and pct are no good

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 06:19 PM

thanks for all the suggestions but i think ima do it.. i train hard,good diet, and im dedicated to the gym..now i know all of u are thinking "he doesn't train hard, he thinks he eats good, hes to young to know how to lift"...but if u saw ude be surprised i think

so heres the just of it

dbol 45mg aday weeks 1-5 also letro for as long as it takes to zap my nip as it is sore from my last cycle of dbol (40 mg aday weeks 1-5)
test e 500 a week; 1-14
winni 50 mg aday weeks 9-14

tomox 14-20
letro and clomid on hand to

**SportbikerKid** · 01-09-2013, 07:03 PM

still way off bro. take care of the gyno BEFORE you cycle. Not on cycle. You will drastically reduce gains if you nuke all estro on cycle.
Why the hell you running tomox for 7 weeks.
Why won't you run clomid with the tomox like everybody else does.
run a weaker AI on cycle so you still have some estro

**JayIsPumped** · 01-09-2013, 09:11 PM

because the tomox i get last about 45 days, and thats all i ever needed for a PCT as for keeping gains plus more, and what weaker AI u suggest

RA · 01-09-2013, 09:18 PM

Personally I would put the dbol aside and run the test. Its nice to know how your body responds to compounds. I dont suggest a ton of winny cycles unless you like Jason Stathams haircut.

**JayIsPumped** · 01-10-2013, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by RA

Personally I would put the dbol aside and run the test. Its nice to know how your body responds to compounds. I dont suggest a ton of winny cycles unless you like Jason tathams haircut.

hahah yea i know ths is my first time using winni
is 100 25 mg tabs too much