Junior Member
Anyone got really nice gains in calves after a cycle? If so did you keep most of those calves? Please share. Asking because I was wondering what I can expect to see in the calve growing department after my first cycle. (first ever cycle) Just say for example : 400mg Test e /week for 7 weeks (yes, training and diet are perfect right now). Dam calves are sticks.
Knowledgeable Member
Ummm, it all depends on your lifting routine for your calves, regardless whether you are on or off cycle.
Calves will grow just like the rest of your muscles when you are on the juice, and whether you'll be able to keep those gains or not really depends on how successful your PCT is, then there is the diet and intensity of training...
I hit my genetic limits for calves before I ever cycled, and when I cycled, they grew even more. Not a genetic freak regarding calves, but calves are calves.
If you want your calves to grow more, just hit them harder with heavier weight, good form, short rest period times in between sets and train them every 3-4 days.
Junior Member
The way I train calves now: 1: Donkey raises 3 sets all to failure (12-20 reps) 2: seated raises 4 sets to failure (12-20 reps) 3: standing raises, 1 all out set to extreme failure.
After this I'm sore for at least two days and so I only train them every four days. It seems anything more would be over training. I'm not sure if being on juice would get my recovery time down to be able to train more often?
Knowledgeable Member
Absolutely.Originally Posted by backcountryrider
Member
its "calves" a muscle it grows according to the way you work them out.. ifyou want them to gow blast them as offten as possible with trying to see which angle works best
. so your cycle is 7wks
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
My best advice would be similar to Turks. I'll add that if they are your weak point then train them FIRST in your routine, not at the end. Too many people train them last when their tired and wonder why they have issues. Almost never see anyone training chest last......?
Anabolic Member
My calves have exploded on my test and tren cycle I am on but I have always had large calves even before cycling.I think every person has different growth rates on different muscles depending on genetics.IMO
Associate Member
Last cycle I added one legged line jumps to my legs day (3@40 second sets-10 secs front to back, 10 secs side to side). My calves got monstrously big, especially the peronius and tibialis muscles.
Last edited by senorrebo; 01-11-2013 at 11:19 AM.
Junior Member
Good advice however I will not train them until they have fully recovered from the las work out sometimes It's four days, sometimes it's 3. I'm excited to see what the juice brings however I'm just going to continue researching before I actually do it. i been reading some dam scary shit on here from people that made mistakes.
Associate Member
7 weeks of test e is too short by the way... should be 10-12 weeks
Junior Member
I heard 8 weeks is optimal. I don't expect to gain 20 lbs, I'd be happy even gaining 10. I'd be backing off to 7 just to minimize the risk of sides, I don't want any sides at all. If I have to use something completely mellow like Anivar to accomplish this then that's what I'll do. I have never cycled before ever. Still say 10-12 ?
Productive Member
Yes I'd say 10-12 still. You can control the sides fairly well and t a low dose you're fairly safe. Low dose of var will still shut you down.
Associate Member
Yes still say 10-12.. Test e doesn't kick in properly till like week 5-6 that's when gains really start coming so really ull just be gaining for like 2 weeks then ending the cycle.. Gains start tapering off at week 10-12 that's why it's much better to run for longer.. If u only want to run short time run test prop..
Knowledgeable Member
There is not a single oral that can be labelled ''completely mellow'', including Anavar.
If you want to run a heavy ester AAS such as Test E and get results in only 8 weeks, then you'll have to front-load it.
If you want to get results in 8 weeks and not get orals or front-loading involved, then you should cycle light ester AAS such as Test Prop.
Junior Member
Noted. 10-12 weeks for my test e. When front loading can you give me an example for it> (600mg for the first 2 weeks then drop down to 500mg for the rest of the duration?) something like this? Other option is to use Test P. however I hear you need to pin every day. Not to sure how valid that is though...
Lastly, from my understanding P with the low ester is more fast acting and fast to leave your system. Then Test e, high ester, slow acting lasts longer in the system. Is this correct and which would provoke more side effects.??
Knowledgeable Member
Test P has a biological half-life of 1.5 days; whereas, Test E has a biological half-life of 4-6 days (depending on individual's metabolic response).
Thus, Test P enters and exits your system faster; whereas, it takes Test E significantly longer to enter and exit your system.
It wouldn't be correct to say one would prove more side effects than the other, since it ultimately boils down to how your metabolism responds to the given compound; however, if any sides were to occur, they will occur much quicker with Test P than Test E.
Lastly, sides are more manageable with short esters because you can adjust your dose and almost immediately attain results by doing so, which is never the case with long esters. Another advantage of short esters is the very short 3 day waiting phase to start PCT, which can go all the way up to 3 weeks with long esters such as Sustanon and/or Test Decanoate.
I prefer short esters only at this point, shorter cycles = less strain on my body and results are quickly delivered.
Junior Member
I think you put it right , it makes cense to me as per your last line. I just need to research more now of PCT. I know there is plenty of info on it already posted but I do have one more question now that I have attention of a knowledgable member. If in theory, PCT was NOT taken, your natural hormone balance does eventually correct itself back to normal right? How bad really is dealing with it and for how long until your normal again?
Knowledgeable Member
No one with a working brain can possibly guarantee you that your HPTA will eventually correct itself back to normal. There are, in fact, many reported cases where HPTA recovery hasn't at all occurred post-cycle when left alone. Although, these cases have often to do with those who either cycled at a very young age or pro-BBs who have been on heavy doses of multiple compounds for extended periods of time.
At any rate, the answer to your question is a big NO. In theory, HPTA may not recover itself and/or even if recovery occurs, pre-cycle stats regarding total and free Testosterone levels may never be achieved again. As for your question ''how long would normalization take'', this will vary amongst individuals, as there is no stone written elements for this.
Here is my question: why am I getting the feeling that you want to skip PCT???
Junior Member
If PCT is that important then it's even more important to know what happens if you skip it. (or skip it by not doing it right, wrong dose, wrong timing, wrong stuff, whatever.)
I was also not saying guarantee this or guarantee that, i know everything in life really is nothing set in stone: What I mean, what GENERALLY happens in MOST cases after a cycle if PCT is missed? Yes, I understand there has been SOME cases where natural hormone production has been destroyed to mess up their lives forever.
Knowledgeable Member
Recovery from mild nandrolone use takes six months
In the early eighties endocrinologists in Muenster, Germany gave five young men in their twenties nandrolone hexylphenylproprionate [aka Anadur] for a couple of months and then looked at what happened to the men. Although the doses were very low, the men’s bodies needed at least six months to recover from the drugs.
Nandrolone hexylphenylproprionate is related to nandrolone decanoate, aka Deca. The researchers started off by giving the men 100 mg injections of the hormone for the first three weeks, followed by ten weeks of 200 mg per week.
The men had no complaints: they didn’t develop acne, their prostates didn’t grow, they didn’t get gyno and their libido didn’t decrease. They did put on weight though. They weighed an average of 88 kg when the experiment started and at the end of the experiment they weighed 95 kg. Sixteen weeks later the men had already lost 3 kg.
The article suggests that the men did weight training. Back in the eighties scientists didn’t believe that athletes grew more muscle if they took anabolic steroids. In almost all studies from that period you see that athletes gained four, five or more kilos if they took androgens, but researchers usually swept this information under the carpet. Facts may speak for themselves, but conformity is often stronger than facts.
The men’s natural testosterone production decreased during the course of the experiment. After they had had their last injection it took six months before their testosterone level was back to its previous level.
During the course of the experiment the men’s testes also shrank. The average volume decreased from 39 to 21 millilitres. The researchers had expected this to happen, but hadn’t warned the men. They were afraid that the information might have an undesirable psychological effect on the men. [In 2008 this would not get past ethical committees – Ed.]
There were big differences in the men’s fertility recovery. One man was as fertile as he had been at the start after just eight weeks, but for one man it took thirty weeks for his sperm production to be restored to the pre-experiment level.
Later on, researchers working on the “male pill” also observed similarly large differences. Nevertheless, the old German study is not very reassuring. If such a light course of steroids has such long-lasting detrimental health effects, what are the effects of the steroids regimes that bodybuilders follow nowadays?
In the medical literature there are cases described of bodybuilders that have become infertile after years of taking steroids or have injected such large quantities that they hit the andropause before the age of thirty. Researchers also tend to find a lower testosterone level in ex-steroids users than in bodybuilders who have not used drugs.
It’s easy to put testosterone decline and fertility problems down to extreme steroids use. But if you’re sensitive to them they can lead to problems, even if you stick to the guidelines in the underground manuals. These consistently underestimate the impact of steroids on the natural production of hormones and on fertility. A few months is all it takes to recover, the manuals say. But studies – and not just the one described here – show that four months recovery after a course of drugs is not enough.
Admittedly, the test subjects in the studies didn’t use anti-estrogens or hCG. Substance users in the sports world use these after a course of steroids to get their own testosterone production going again more quickly.
Sources: Lancet.R 1984 Feb 25;1(8374):R417-20.
Junior Member
That happened with only 200mg per week....? Look at the stacks and doses people are taking now a days! From my understanding all this PCT was never around "back in the day" of bodybuilding, i wonder why their dicks didn't fall off.
However, PCT will prevent all these negative after effects quite well?
Member
Did I read that too fast..or there wasn't mention of any PCT?
Knowledgeable Member
Yes.
That's why we insist on it.
Knowledgeable Member
Subjects didn't go through PCT, which is why I posted the study in the first place. If you read the whole thread above, it will all start to make sense to you.
Member
That was a great post, it really does show the severity of irresponsible cycles that don't include PCT
Junior Member
Important indeed. However, I think back in the day when bodybuilding was being evolved, they took nothing as far as pct.
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