Steroids and Sudden Death

[1992mag]

I know this isnt very common at all but I'm suppose to start my 14-16 week cycle on Monday and I came across all these articles about aas and sudden death from cardiac issues and I was just curious if this is something I should be worried about. they weren't very specific, they didnt mention what they took in what amounts and if they were using other stuff or if they had a family history of heart problems. I've also read that in these cases these people already just genetically had blood pressure and heart issues. Everyone in my family is healthy, my moms had a bunch of echo's and ekg's done on her heart and everything was normal, dads is normal, ive never had high bp or cholesterol, even only 2 weeks after my 8 week dzine cycle (iknow stupid) i had tests done and bp and cholesterol and everything was normal, only thing i can think of his my grandmothers brother has had heart surgery, and some more distant relatives have had heart problems, but i havent and no one in my immediate family has had problems. just want some input on this. thanks.

[Natureboy71]

Don't physc yourself out.

[clarky.]

Think your worrying about nothing mate.

[scorpion62]

Your twentyeight healthy young man ,you have had things checked out there are no family issuse looks like you should be good to go , is this your first cycle? what is your cycle? Whats your PCT ? is your diet sound ? whats your stats ?

[crazy mike]

Your twentyeight healthy young man ,you have had things checked out there are no family issuse looks like you should be good to go , is this your first cycle? what is your cycle? Whats your PCT ? is your diet sound ? whats your stats ?

I agree with scorpion, your only twenty eight and that's young. if you bw and bp are ok then don't worry. If you feel abnormally real sick, real dizzy etc.. in the gym check your bp then then 1 hr after. Then take some action if it reads bad but don't get paranoid and dream up whats no showing in you wrk up. I have done plenty high dose long cycle in my 30's and I'm back on my first now at my age no problem's yet I feel ggggreat! These guys are sharp. good luck

[Metalject]

There's never been a death directly linked to anabolic steroids. Not one death in nearly 100 years.
There are those that say death was caused by steroids but the statement is never backed up by anything concrete. It's almost like saying "Billy died that day because the sky was blue."

[1992mag]

this is reassuring. thanks everyone. but this is a steroid forum so of course you guys are going to support them. but you guys are probably right. i only read 4 cases of this happening out of the hundreds of thousands of steroids users out there. and im a whole lot younger than 28 i dont know where you guys are getting that number. and this will be my first AAS cycle but i have done a dzine cycle and everything went fine. and i even did it for 8 weeks instead of 6. bp and cholesterol came back normal. dumb decision. cycle is just test e for not sure how long yet, 14-16 weeks, not sure yet. pct will be nolva/clomid, diet is spot on, i was considering front loading the test e so 1000mg for the first week but now im not sure about that. but i have a competition 10 weeks into the cycle so i want it to kick in sooner. and ill probably be using aromasin to dry up and lean out a bit.

edit: and like i said no one in my immediate family has any problems. my grandmothers brother has had heart surgery but doing well nowand one of my moms sisters has had a heart attack but my mom herself has no pproblems at all and neither does my dad nor anyone on his side of the family.

[gymfu]

I look at it this way. There are risks with AAS use, but I know guys using stupid amounts of gear and if they are still kicking then I should be ok using reasonable doses and cycling use. Keep an eye on your bp and get bloodwork done during and post cycle.

Those cases were probably from abuse. People using 2gr of gear per week non stop.

[TheSpoonyBard]

Some people aren't cut out for AAS use. If you are an excessive worrier then AAS may not be your scene. Are you comfortable with shooting yourself up with a liquid that may or may not be what you were told it was? As is the case with using UGL gear, unless you can find a way to obtain pharma grade everything. You have to go by word of mouth, unless you can get your gear mass spec'd before dosing. AAS is an exercise in faith, and for putting aside fears to get what you want.

[stpete]

OK, let's concentrate on your proposed cycle. Can you lay it out for us so we have a better understanding of what you intend to run and the amounts? This will also help us in finding out exactly what you're researching. Include complete stats as well.

Height
Age
Weight
BF%
Training History

Thanks.

[warlord_wang]

lmao he is young probably born in 1992 by his name

[ecruz]

bro there is always a fear when taking anything. just check yourself and keep an eye on all your vitals!

[1992mag]

I look at it this way. There are risks with AAS use, but I know guys using stupid amounts of gear and if they are still kicking then I should be ok using reasonable doses and cycling use. Keep an eye on your bp and get bloodwork done during and post cycle.

Those cases were probably from abuse. People using 2gr of gear per week non stop.

yeah true. im not really worried anymore. i just never even heard of people suddenly dieing from gear so when i read that i was woah wtf.

Some people aren't cut out for AAS use. If you are an excessive worrier then AAS may not be your scene. Are you comfortable with shooting yourself up with a liquid that may or may not be what you were told it was? As is the case with using UGL gear, unless you can find a way to obtain pharma grade everything. You have to go by word of mouth, unless you can get your gear mass spec'd before dosing. AAS is an exercise in faith, and for putting aside fears to get what you want.

no im cut out for it alright hahaha ive been so pumped for it for a while and im finally starting it on monday. dont worry my stuff is top notch stuff. i know that. 100% sure.

thanks for the replies eveyrone. not worried really at all anymore.ive done a ph in the past no problems so this shouldnt be a problem. just needed some reassurance.

[warlockjmr]

A lot of the cases I've seen that people have linked to AAS have either been pre existing conditions (heart problems that are usually not detected) or people that run them all year round, strongmen and the such like. BUT this is just conjecture as no one can really prove that AAS alone were the main reason for death and is generally second hand info. In most cases the actual studies have shown very little health problems linked with it and media are to blame for a lot of the hype associated. That saying, injecting something into yourself has a stigma attached to it and getting through that alone takes a lot of what has been posted above as 'faith'.

[Honkey_Kong]

I've never heard of anyone healthy ever dying from steroids. But that doesn't mean that it's not possible. Every drug has risk and we as responsible users of these drugs need to take the necessary precautions to reduce the risk. Eating healthy, getting regular blood work & physicals seems like a good starting point. We also need to keep doing our homework as more information will become available.

Besides, there are worse things that gear can cause besides sudden death. To me, I'd rather drop dead than have chronic ED (which is a risk of steroids).

[crazy mike]

Well younger than 28 says allot to me in regard to fear and pride. Good luck my friend just go easy and in moderation, always investigate....stayin cool...crazy mike

[SportbikerKid]

You wanna know what causes death? ...abusing and misusing diuretics and stimulants. (both OTC and prescription)
You wanna know what doesn't cause death? ...illegal AAS


also... shoutout to a fellow 1992 bro

[BBJT200]

A lot of those sudden death cardiac problems were due to abuse of diuretics, such as Lasix.

[t-gunz]

any drug can kill you.

you risk this if you take the drug simple. you know what can happen. worse case you can die.

everyone is different and will have different reactions

[SportbikerKid]

any drug can kill you.

you risk this if you take the drug simple. you know what can happen. worse case you can die.

everyone is different and will have different reactions

Water can kill you TBQH

[stpete]

yeah true. im not really worried anymore. i just never even heard of people suddenly dieing from gear so when i read that i was woah wtf.



no im cut out for it alright hahaha ive been so pumped for it for a while and im finally starting it on monday. dont worry my stuff is top notch stuff. i know that. 100% sure.

thanks for the replies eveyrone. not worried really at all anymore.ive done a ph in the past no problems so this shouldnt be a problem. just needed some reassurance.

So you know your stuff is "top notch stuff" now? Interesting. Cause i don't see anything in this thread to make you believe otherwise. Does it make you feel better by placing a thread out there? Good luck tough guy.

[calstate23]

I know this isnt very common at all but I'm suppose to start my 14-16 week cycle on Monday and I came across all these articles about aas and sudden death from cardiac issues and I was just curious if this is something I should be worried about. they weren't very specific, they didnt mention what they took in what amounts and if they were using other stuff or if they had a family history of heart problems. I've also read that in these cases these people already just genetically had blood pressure and heart issues. Everyone in my family is healthy, my moms had a bunch of echo's and ekg's done on her heart and everything was normal, dads is normal, ive never had high bp or cholesterol, even only 2 weeks after my 8 week dzine cycle (iknow stupid) i had tests done and bp and cholesterol and everything was normal, only thing i can think of his my grandmothers brother has had heart surgery, and some more distant relatives have had heart problems, but i havent and no one in my immediate family has had problems. just want some input on this. thanks.

Let me just say this...The risk is VERY low especially at your age....But...

It can happen, I was probably 21 when a guy I knew was my age or a little younger and he had a mild heart attack....He was taking a lot of gear plus other crap...

Obviously, that doesn't happen at that age unless it's from something...It probably was from all the steroids and such he was taking...but hey, he's still alive...

Not to scare you but it can happen....VERY VERY rare....But I also believe a lot of people have had problems from steroids and died from it but people can't prove it is from the steroids so they just say heart attack caused by high blood pressure....

So high blood pressure is considered the killer, but the REAL question should be WHAT caused the high blood pressure? Most likely from steroids....Actually, to be quite honest there are a lot of bodybuilders with health issue due to steroids, gh, and insulin...Especially diuretics...One time **** up on diuretics and you can die...Many pros get Hyperkalemia from the diuretics they take for comps...There is probably a lot more hospital visits most people don't know about.......But again, that's mostly from the diuretics which cause Hyperkalemia and also kidney failure.......

One more true thing people don't know which is VERY true...Pretty much EVERY pro on stage at Olympia can't go under the knife if they needed to since too much hormones and is very unhealthy....It happened to Orville Burke...Went in for simple surgery and slipped into coma..people can say what they want but it was obviously from all the hormones he was on...

[Metalject]

I'd be willing to bet the four cases of death you found linked to steroids were only linked in theory and without solid proof. As stated before, there's no recorded death in history linked directly to anabolic steroids.

[calstate23]

I'd be willing to bet the four cases of death you found linked to steroids were only linked in theory and without solid proof. As stated before, there's no recorded death in history linked directly to anabolic steroids.

You are so wrong....

Let me tell you, I AM ALL FOR STEROIDS but that is not true....

Depending on what steroids you are taking and how much can have a major impact on your body.....

The two MAJOR causes to kidney failure is Diabetes and High Blood Pressure....Hormones effect both of these which in essence will effect kidney function...Then, when you look at protein intake, steroids, insulin, gh, enlarged heart do to hormones all their life, and smoking etc...Ha Ha, you don't know anything...

Do you know how many pros have had kidney transplants?? Ha ha, no you don't, I don't even know....But it's a lot and I can tell you it is NOT GENETICS which they CLAIM...

Yes, genetics can play a small role but it's mostly from hormones...That is why you see guys fade out...You can't take hormones like they do and expect to do it your whole life...40 + and these guys start to back away due to the issues I'm talking about...

It is NOT healthy 100%..

And by the way, there were no "CASES" or "LINKS"..It's called reality...Seen it happen in front of my eyes, MANY of times...I can't even list on my fingers how many times I've seen severe dehydration (To the point of being unconscious), Hyperkalemia, cardiac arrest, and stroke??? Oh that is just a few, but of course that is in severe stage..But it happens...And it happens because of HORMONES...

[calstate23]

Advanced Bodybuilder = Drug Addict/Hormone addict....Whatever you want to call it...

You know that person you call a drunk who drinks 2-3 nights a week and gets hammered?? He has problem right? But that is no problem to TRUE alcoholic drinking a handle of JACK DANIELS a day for years....

Both are bad, but BIG difference....pro bodybuilder is equivalent to True alcoholic drinking handle every day...They are abusing their drugs day in and day out....

[Metalject]

You are so wrong....

Let me tell you, I AM ALL FOR STEROIDS but that is not true....

Depending on what steroids you are taking and how much can have a major impact on your body.....

The two MAJOR causes to kidney failure is Diabetes and High Blood Pressure....Hormones effect both of these which in essence will effect kidney function...Then, when you look at protein intake, steroids, insulin, gh, enlarged heart do to hormones all their life, and smoking etc...Ha Ha, you don't know anything...

Do you know how many pros have had kidney transplants?? Ha ha, no you don't, I don't even know....But it's a lot and I can tell you it is NOT GENETICS which they CLAIM...

Yes, genetics can play a small role but it's mostly from hormones...That is why you see guys fade out...You can't take hormones like they do and expect to do it your whole life...40 + and these guys start to back away due to the issues I'm talking about...

It is NOT healthy 100%..

And by the way, there were no "CASES" or "LINKS"..It's called reality...Seen it happen in front of my eyes, MANY of times...I can't even list on my fingers how many times I've seen severe dehydration (To the point of being unconscious), Hyperkalemia, cardiac arrest, and stroke??? Oh that is just a few, but of course that is in severe stage..But it happens...And it happens because of HORMONES...

I never said all hormones, I was talking about steroids. The primary reason bodybuilders have kidney issues is diuretics, not steroids. Then you have the insulin and large amounts of HGH use, that's another factor yet a separate one.

I'm not saying steroids cannot lead to damage, of course they can. The cardiac strain they can potentially cause is undeniable, but potential in no way implies guaranteed. Total use, the combination of steroids with other drugs and hormones and then genetics all play a role.

[calstate23]

I never said all hormones, I was talking about steroids. The primary reason bodybuilders have kidney issues is diuretics, not steroids. Then you have the insulin and large amounts of HGH use, that's another factor yet a separate one.

I'm not saying steroids cannot lead to damage, of course they can. The cardiac strain they can potentially cause is undeniable, but potential in no way implies guaranteed. Total use, the combination of steroids with other drugs and hormones and then genetics all play a role.

Steroids is actually a big factor in itself.....Mainly blood pressure especially with certain compounds....

Many people like to blame kidney failure on genetics or bad use of diuretics, which can be true....

But like I said, what is one of the biggest factors for kidney failure?? High blood pressure....That means if you have constant high blood pressure from steroids it is putting stress on your kidneys...

That is what people don't understand....That is why there is no DIRECT cause of death do to steroids because it effects something else which causes the death.....Stroke and heart attack are NOT common for younger people...

#1 - Most people will not tell their doctor or family members if they're taking steroids. So if they die from heart attack doctor says well it was from heart attack

#2 - There hasn't really been any long term studies for steroids, especially at high dosages because it would be unethical and a risk to the individuals...Thus, when they think there is a correlation they can't prove it because there is no facts to back it up...

#3 - Probability is real...Most people don't have heart attacks, kidney failure etc at young age....Yet, for some MYSTICAL REASON many bodybuilders are suffering from High blood pressure, heart attacks, enlarged heart, risk for stroke, and getting kidney transplants.....The apple don't fall from the tree bro...it is clear as day...In fact, it isn't even an argument, I know what the truth is and I have seen it...

[Metalject]

Steroids is actually a big factor in itself.....Mainly blood pressure especially with certain compounds....

Many people like to blame kidney failure on genetics or bad use of diuretics, which can be true....

But like I said, what is one of the biggest factors for kidney failure?? High blood pressure....That means if you have constant high blood pressure from steroids it is putting stress on your kidneys...

That is what people don't understand....That is why there is no DIRECT cause of death do to steroids because it effects something else which causes the death.....Stroke and heart attack are NOT common for younger people...

#1 - Most people will not tell their doctor or family members if they're taking steroids. So if they die from heart attack doctor says well it was from heart attack

#2 - There hasn't really been any long term studies for steroids, especially at high dosages because it would be unethical and a risk to the individuals...Thus, when they think there is a correlation they can't prove it because there is no facts to back it up...

#3 - Probability is real...Most people don't have heart attacks, kidney failure etc at young age....Yet, for some MYSTICAL REASON many bodybuilders are suffering from High blood pressure, heart attacks, enlarged heart, risk for stroke, and getting kidney transplants.....The apple don't fall from the tree bro...it is clear as day...In fact, it isn't even an argument, I know what the truth is and I have seen it...

I don't think you're understanding my point.

Anyway, yes probability is real but this doesn't mean it's a high rate of probability. Would you say most steroid users or even steroid using bodybuilders are dying at a young age? Of course you wouldn't....well you might, I don't know you but that would be a pretty ridiculous claim. That's not to say there aren't those that haven't damaged themselves, I've seen it too. I saw a guy just last year slip into a coma and die two months later due to insulin use, it does happen and I'm not denying that....but at the same time insulin isn't steroids, that was the point in my comment. I'm not talking about all bodybuilding drugs or the bodybuilding lifestyle as a whole....there are probably very few things on earth as unhealthy as a bodybuilding lifestyle...for the record I'm talking about a serious competitive bodybuilding lifestyle...I don't deny that either.

As for your other two main points, true, there haven't been any official long term studies that lasted 10 or 20+ years. I wouldn't call such a study unethical though if it were to be done...it should be done. There are, however, a lot of guys who are well into their 60's and beyond that used a lot of gear over the years. I wish more info could be gathered from their conditions, not just a few of them but a lot of them.

A for heart attacks and high blood pressure and things like that, sure steroids can contribute to high blood pressure. I would say poor cholesterol long term has an even stronger detrimental affect. However, it is very possible to control these things. Unless there's an underlying health issue there's really no reason to have high blood pressure on cycle. If you get into the insane high level competitor cycles this can change but this isn't most people.

[calstate23]

I don't think you're understanding my point.

Anyway, yes probability is real but this doesn't mean it's a high rate of probability. Would you say most steroid users or even steroid using bodybuilders are dying at a young age? Of course you wouldn't....well you might, I don't know you but that would be a pretty ridiculous claim. That's not to say there aren't those that haven't damaged themselves, I've seen it too. I saw a guy just last year slip into a coma and die two months later due to insulin use, it does happen and I'm not denying that....but at the same time insulin isn't steroids, that was the point in my comment. I'm not talking about all bodybuilding drugs or the bodybuilding lifestyle as a whole....there are probably very few things on earth as unhealthy as a bodybuilding lifestyle...for the record I'm talking about a serious competitive bodybuilding lifestyle...I don't deny that either.

As for your other two main points, true, there haven't been any official long term studies that lasted 10 or 20+ years. I wouldn't call such a study unethical though if it were to be done...it should be done. There are, however, a lot of guys who are well into their 60's and beyond that used a lot of gear over the years. I wish more info could be gathered from their conditions, not just a few of them but a lot of them.

A for heart attacks and high blood pressure and things like that, sure steroids can contribute to high blood pressure. I would say poor cholesterol long term has an even stronger detrimental affect. However, it is very possible to control these things. Unless there's an underlying health issue there's really no reason to have high blood pressure on cycle. If you get into the insane high level competitor cycles this can change but this isn't most people.

Yes, I do get what you are saying...And I agree that it is more the COMBINATION of everything which is so detrimental...A typical cycle is not that bad for you, of course if you have legit product and know how to take it correctly...

The study being unethical is words straight from researchers who perform such tests...The fact that we know there IS side effects and some that can be very harmful if taken wrong...It can't be done because its effects are truly unknown and there is no guideline to say at exactly what dose is CORRECT or the combinations between different hormones (Proven Medical guidelines)..For instance, where is there prove to say an x amount of testosterone can cause major side effects?? Is it 300mg? 500mg? 1,000mg? 2,000mg? We can have an idea of what to expect because we take it but there really isn't much studies to truly prove how it overall effects our bodies

[Metalject]

Yes, I do get what you are saying...And I agree that it is more the COMBINATION of everything which is so detrimental...A typical cycle is not that bad for you, of course if you have legit product and know how to take it correctly...

The study being unethical is words straight from researchers who perform such tests...The fact that we know there IS side effects and some that can be very harmful if taken wrong...It can't be done because its effects are truly unknown and there is no guideline to say at exactly what dose is CORRECT or the combinations between different hormones (Proven Medical guidelines)..For instance, where is there prove to say an x amount of testosterone can cause major side effects?? Is it 300mg? 500mg? 1,000mg? 2,000mg? We can have an idea of what to expect because we take it but there really isn't much studies to truly prove how it overall effects our bodies

There have been plenty of 10-30/wk studies using testosterone at doses from 50mg/wk to 600mg/wk. There's plenty of information in that regard to give us a good idea of what can or could happen. And we already have a very good idea of what will happen just by looking at real life. The researchers who say the studies are unethical only do so because they don't want to do the studies. They'll do studies on anti-depresents and birth contraceptives that are often far more detrimental to an individual's health than an anabolic steroid, they have no problem with that. They'll do long term studies using massive doses of opiates, they have no problem with that. They'll do long term studies with statins and blood pressure meds that destroy natural hormone levels of the individual but somehow steroid research is unethical.

The research is unethical claim is simply BS.

[Times Roman]

this is reassuring. thanks everyone. but this is a steroid forum so of course you guys are going to support them. but you guys are probably right. i only read 4 cases of this happening out of the hundreds of thousands of steroids users out there. and im a whole lot younger than 28 i dont know where you guys are getting that number. and this will be my first AAS cycle but i have done a dzine cycle and everything went fine. and i even did it for 8 weeks instead of 6. bp and cholesterol came back normal. dumb decision. cycle is just test e for not sure how long yet, 14-16 weeks, not sure yet. pct will be nolva/clomid, diet is spot on, i was considering front loading the test e so 1000mg for the first week but now im not sure about that. but i have a competition 10 weeks into the cycle so i want it to kick in sooner. and ill probably be using aromasin to dry up and lean out a bit.

edit: and like i said no one in my immediate family has any problems. my grandmothers brother has had heart surgery but doing well nowand one of my moms sisters has had a heart attack but my mom herself has no pproblems at all and neither does my dad nor anyone on his side of the family.

this is a false perception by most newbs coming here. people coming here for the first time think we (at least I) are pro steroid. This is false. I advocate the safe and intelligent use of anabolic steroids. This is why we almost ALWAYS tell youngsters in their early twenties to wait. And I suspect you are probably in that age category (guessing 21?), and if you are, I'd highly suggest you wait a few more years until your hormonal system is finished developing.

We almost always tell people coming here asking that you shouldn't probably run a cycle longer than about 12 weeks. And we give some pretty specific information as to "not to exceed" doses as well. Most here will tell you to grow into your cycle, with the idea that the least amount of steroids to get you past your plateau is the goal and a good idea.

Most here will tell you your first cycle should be testosterone only, to limit your oral steroids on future cycles, and to protect your liver when you do take oral steroids.

We try to put a lot of safeguards in place. We are not "pro steroids" in the usual sense, as we quite often tell people NOT to take steroids.

Hope this clears things up some?

[calstate23]

There have been plenty of 10-30/wk studies using testosterone at doses from 50mg/wk to 600mg/wk. There's plenty of information in that regard to give us a good idea of what can or could happen. And we already have a very good idea of what will happen just by looking at real life. The researchers who say the studies are unethical only do so because they don't want to do the studies. They'll do studies on anti-depresents and birth contraceptives that are often far more detrimental to an individual's health than an anabolic steroid, they have no problem with that. They'll do long term studies using massive doses of opiates, they have no problem with that. They'll do long term studies with statins and blood pressure meds that destroy natural hormone levels of the individual but somehow steroid research is unethical.

The research is unethical claim is simply BS.

It is not BS...Because of the negative effects it is unethical to put people at risk...

There has been small studies done in regular amounts of VERY BASIC, COMMON and PHARM GRADE steroids such as a low dose testosterone or deca....but I said STEROIDS, not just low dose pharm grade testosterone..And how long is the list of steroids we use?? It is a HUGE list....And who uses pharm grade low dose testosterone and that's it?? Basically NO ONE...

Most are taking Underground lab steroids at HIGH dosages and stacking them with a few other compounds on top of that...

It is our body and our choice what we do with it...But do you think it is ETHICAL for someone to be used as GUINEA PIG to take tren at 700 mg a week to see what side effects they get??

There is a difference between someone who chooses to use steroids and someone doing something purely out of research....And the fact is, YOU might not care then you start to lose hair, can't sleep and get night sweats, or get a lot of aggression...Except, a legitimate research study will not risk putting people through studies when there is a high risk of negative outcomes that could effect that persons life...

When doing research studies there is huge liability issue...What if some nut case can't control his anger and beats the shit out of someone it is very easy to point it at the study, along with a big fat lawsuit

[Metalject]

It is not BS...Because of the negative effects it is unethical to put people at risk...

There has been small studies done in regular amounts of VERY BASIC, COMMON and PHARM GRADE steroids such as a low dose testosterone or deca....but I said STEROIDS, not just low dose pharm grade testosterone..And how long is the list of steroids we use?? It is a HUGE list....And who uses pharm grade low dose testosterone and that's it?? Basically NO ONE...

Most are taking Underground lab steroids at HIGH dosages and stacking them with a few other compounds on top of that...

It is our body and our choice what we do with it...But do you think it is ETHICAL for someone to be used as GUINEA PIG to take tren at 700 mg a week to see what side effects they get??

There is a difference between someone who chooses to use steroids and someone doing something purely out of research....And the fact is, YOU might not care then you start to lose hair, can't sleep and get night sweats, or get a lot of aggression...Except, a legitimate research study will not risk putting people through studies when there is a high risk of negative outcomes that could effect that persons life...

When doing research studies there is huge liability issue...What if some nut case can't control his anger and beats the shit out of someone it is very easy to point it at the study, along with a big fat lawsuit

It depends on how you look at it. I agree, there are no long term studies of people using grams and grams of various steroids. However, there are studies, true legitimate studies using supraphysiological doses of testosterone, nandrolone, oxymetholone and oxandrolone. There are also decades of clinical data, human use information on those steroids and even with other steroids. There is over 30yrs of data on Trenbolone use in human beings, actual human grade Tren prescribed to human beings back when Negma still made the hormone. While this may very well not qualify as true performance based information, it is a good start and is very telling.

Kind of a side note, I don't buy into the "can't control anger" argument. There have been several documented reports stating the issue of roid rage is false, that any changes to mental behavior are so small they cannot be measured if they occur at all. Granted, this is all with lower dose use, with the exception being some studies using 500+mg of testosterone or nandrolone. Then you also have to take into account the AMA's testimony at during the 1980's steroid hearings and again in the early 2000's where they stated there were no notable effects associated with anabolic steroid use and mental function.

[calstate23]

It depends on how you look at it. I agree, there are no long term studies of people using grams and grams of various steroids. However, there are studies, true legitimate studies using supraphysiological doses of testosterone, nandrolone, oxymetholone and oxandrolone. There are also decades of clinical data, human use information on those steroids and even with other steroids. There is over 30yrs of data on Trenbolone use in human beings, actual human grade Tren prescribed to human beings back when Negma still made the hormone. While this may very well not qualify as true performance based information, it is a good start and is very telling.

Kind of a side note, I don't buy into the "can't control anger" argument. There have been several documented reports stating the issue of roid rage is false, that any changes to mental behavior are so small they cannot be measured if they occur at all. Granted, this is all with lower dose use, with the exception being some studies using 500+mg of testosterone or nandrolone. Then you also have to take into account the AMA's testimony at during the 1980's steroid hearings and again in the early 2000's where they stated there were no notable effects associated with anabolic steroid use and mental function.

On certain compounds it really is hard for me to control my anger and I have done things I normally wouldn't have done....Especially if you involve drinking with it it can DEFINITELY make it that much harder to control yourself in situations...Roid Rage makes it sound like they go nuts but like I said I've lost my temper for sure before over somthing I probably wouldn't have...I'm sure most have felt that way before at one time or another...

[Metalject]

On certain compounds it really is hard for me to control my anger and I have done things I normally wouldn't have done....Especially if you involve drinking with it it can DEFINITELY make it that much harder to control yourself in situations...Roid Rage makes it sound like they go nuts but like I said I've lost my temper for sure before over somthing I probably wouldn't have...I'm sure most have felt that way before at one time or another...

I've felt that way due to alcohol but not because of any steroid. I agree that alcohol can have a strong effect. Alcohol tends to enhance whatever emotional state I'm in, with or without steroids, so I pretty much avoid in large consumption of it for that very reason. It typically leads me to being very depressed or very angry. I might have some fun in the short run but normally if I drink a lot I end up mad or depressed. Not sure if that's common or not but that's how it works for me.

[calstate23]

I've felt that way due to alcohol but not because of any steroid. I agree that alcohol can have a strong effect. Alcohol tends to enhance whatever emotional state I'm in, with or without steroids, so I pretty much avoid in large consumption of it for that very reason. It typically leads me to being very depressed or very angry. I might have some fun in the short run but normally if I drink a lot I end up mad or depressed. Not sure if that's common or not but that's how it works for me.

Alcohol pretty much effects everyone like that if you get drunk enough.....

Being sober and on certain compounds it's makes it harder...But adding in alcohol it for me it is basically not controllable for me...

Not on cycle I rarely rarely have a problem when drinking...But on, nearly impossible for me every time...I just won't drink that much if on

[Sgt. Hartman]

Obviously I'm not anti AAS at all, but to deny the CV risks we expose ourselves to from extended use would be pretty irresponsible and ignorant.

The heart is a muscle and has androgen receptors just like any other muscle so when chronic AAS use is combined with heavy lifting and possibly high BP, LDL, RBC, etc. left ventricular hypertrophy is nearly inevitable. That's why being responsible by taking adequate time off and monitoring these risk factors is so important. Sure no one who's had a heart attack or who has CHD has been directly linked to AAS use just like lung cancer can't be directly proven to be caused by smoking cigarettes but just because it isn't proven doesn't mean it's not so.

OP - not trying to scare you at all but to say that AAS use doesn't increase your risk of cardiovascular issues would be misleading. Don't abuse steroids and monitor the risk factors above and you should be just fine.

[1992mag]

Obviously I'm not anti AAS at all, but to deny the CV risks we expose ourselves to from extended use would be pretty irresponsible and ignorant.

The heart is a muscle and has androgen receptors just like any other muscle so when chronic AAS use is combined with heavy lifting and possibly high BP, LDL, RBC, etc. left ventricular hypertrophy is nearly inevitable. That's why being responsible by taking adequate time off and monitoring these risk factors is so important. Sure no one who's had a heart attack or who has CHD has been directly linked to AAS use just like lung cancer can't be directly proven to be caused by smoking cigarettes but just because it isn't proven doesn't mean it's not so.

OP - not trying to scare you at all but to say that AAS use doesn't increase your risk of cardiovascular issues would be misleading. Don't abuse steroids and monitor the risk factors above and you should be just fine.

Yeah I will never abuse them. I'm just running test e 500/wk. the most basic cycle. ill probably never even stack different stuff. maybe but nothing crazy. my nearby grocery store that I make trips to pretty often has a place where I can check my blood pressure so ill be doing that everytime I go in there.

[calstate23]

Yeah I will never abuse them. I'm just running test e 500/wk. the most basic cycle. ill probably never even stack different stuff. maybe but nothing crazy. my nearby grocery store that I make trips to pretty often has a place where I can check my blood pressure so ill be doing that everytime I go in there.

The risks are SUPER low that anything would ever happen especially at your age....

My only point is that is can happen and there really is no medical studies to prove it's long term effects in regards to high dosages, abuse, improper use, stacking etc...

But basically put, if you abuse year after year after year like pro bodybuilder there will health issues guaranteed...Whether they be short, permanent, or will get worse as you approach older age...

[fit2bOld]

Your more likely to die in a car accident on your way to the gym.