got var tren and sust. gona run sust the whole time and go tren then var or vice versa? going to be a cutting cycle with low calories. H.I.T. in the a.m. and weight train in the p.m.? nolva on hand only question is with the var and tren......
Associate Member
got var tren and sust. gona run sust the whole time and go tren then var or vice versa? going to be a cutting cycle with low calories. H.I.T. in the a.m. and weight train in the p.m.? nolva on hand only question is with the var and tren......
AR-Hall of Famer
Lay out your cycleOriginally Posted by fishizzle0927
Senior Member
lets us know, what you have planned and how long you planning on running it, so we can help you, ...
Member
what is your stat and history of previous cycle?
Anabolic Member
never take nolva with deca or tren.
VET
Why???
Banned
Yeah...........why?
Anabolic Member
Trenbolones active metabolite (17beta-trenbolone) has a binding affinity to the progesterone receptor that is actually greater than progesterone itself.
+
Nolavadex makes potentiates/ makes the progesterone receptors sensitive
= no 19nors (trenbolone/Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - /etc) w/nolavadex
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.
Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.
Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.
Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of oestrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to subdivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early
VET
What does that have to do with anything?? I'm not a menopausal female and I don't have breast cancer. You realize that study was on how different ai's and nolva effect breast rumors right?
Banned
Beat me to it Sgt.
lol.............good try keezy.
Anabolic Member
i didnt feel like typing it in my own words, so obviously i copied and pasted and even quoted from other members who have used nolva with 19nor steroids, but i believe the bottom part was helping a guy choose between adex and nolva. anways, don't use nolva with 19nor steroids.
Banned
Until you have evidence to support this, I would stop pissing it if I were you. You're just gonna label yourself unknowledgable fool if you keep it up. The study makes sense, but as Sgt. said, nobody here is a menopausal or post menopausal female with breast cancer, our body's chemistry is much different then theirs.
Anabolic Member
lol well most studies on tamox, adex, letro, etc., are not on steroid using bodybuilders.
Associate Member
Even though i agree that we are not menopausal females.. i say why take the risk?? True our chemistry is different than theirs but i still would not risk it when theres safer options.. just use an AI and caber.. things that are proven to be safer...
Associate Member
back to the matter at hand....... 12 wks 700mg sust wk 700 mg tren wk first 6wks var 80 mg ed last 6 wks. nolva pct 80 80 60 60 40 20. 2 wks after last sust pin. have cycled all before just not in this particular combo. wasnt sure about the tren first or var, but since i shouldnt take nolva with tren, "to be on the safe side" ill take it first..... taken test e with tren before at trt dosage and really liked it just wanted to boost the sust for size do to the my calorie diet
Last edited by fishizzle0927; 01-15-2013 at 05:27 PM.
Associate Member
OK I've been reading this thread, and I understand the use of caber or prami as a progesterone inhibitor, I do have 2 questions so I went back and read read Atomini's thread on Tren because i thought I had gotten confused and still not sure I haven't so here goes. Tren is 5X stronger than test so that means if one were to use 700 mg/wk that that is roughly equated to 3500 mg/wk of test, so why the high does of Sust? The entire discussion of of the use of AI or Nolva only matters because of the high dose of Sust. correct? Like I said I may have this incorrect so please help me understand, but I think what Atomini says in his thread and other members concur is that the "work horse" compound at work is or at least should be the Tren and the addition of the Test is to off set progesterone sides, correct? To in affect negate decreased libido and that since Tren does not aromatase it is only the Test that is converting to estrogen, correct? So by lowering the Sust. dose you are also lowering the chances or at least the amount of aromatazation that is happening? Also using an AI in PCT isn't best because it can reduce estrogen to dramatically right? I copied this from the Parent site Steroids.com :
"There is another important note we must briefly discuss and it’s the use of Aromatase Inhibitors (AI’s) in a PCT plan. AI’s such as Anastrozole (Arimidex) and Letrozole (Femara) and even Exemestane (Aromasin) will stimulate LH and FSH in a similar fashion as a SERM and tremendously so; even so, we do not recommend them for this purpose. As you understand, AI’s will reduce estrogen levels dramatically, and a PCT plan isn’t just about stimulating natural testosterone but normalizing your body. No, estrogen is nowhere near as exciting as testosterone, but you need a fair amount for proper health and function. In the end, save your AI use for when it’s the most beneficial, and that’s for combating estrogenic and progestin related anabolic steroid side-effects when on cycle."
I got this from ATOMINI'S Tren sticky-
"The fact of the matter is that people pump out arbitrary numbers when it comes to doses. Why do people tell others to run '500mg of test'? Why 400mg of tren? Why 300 mg of this, and 250 mg of that? Why? Because they don't know. Most of the time these numbers are arbitrarily made up. What I am presenting here is this: closely analyze the characteristics and stats of a particular compound (in this case we are looking at tren), and develop your cycle and dosing protocol based on the stats! There is no need to run 500mg of tren on your first tren cycle. The reason why I would reccomend far less than that is because when you look at trenbolone's characteristics and see that it is 5x as anabolic as testosterone, you see that it is evident you don't need very much to make dramatic physique changes.
For a first-time tren run, I believe one should be able to garner some very great gains off of 100mg test prop and 250mg tren per week (remember, you'd need 1,250mg test to achieve what 250mg tren does). Hell, 300-400mg tren per week produces great results with still minimal undesireable sides. And there is absolutely no reason to increase tren dosages with every tren cycle you do. For example, if you do 250mg on your first tren cycle there is absolutely no need to think you'll need to run 500mg on the next one, and then 750mg on your 3rd run, and so on and so forth. That's just plain stupidity. Remember, this beautiful compound is so strong that you don't need huge doses to elicit great gains, and the lower your dose is, the less undesireable side effects for the most part. And the beauty with tren is that it is so strong on a mg for mg basis that if you run it at a low dose, you're not losing out on your gains! You don't need a whole lot. Tren is one of those compounds where a little goes a long way. That is my personal saying and rule for tren. Remember that."
So what I guess I am asking is do you need to run so much Sust. in this cycle or is the Tren the true work horse and the Sust is being used to augment in a supporting or more correctly replacing the Test lost b/c HTPA shut down? And if not then the AI dose is during cycle along with Caber if needed or as a prophylactic and the Nolva and or Clomid are used in conjunction with hCG to help restart HTPA system which is in a kind of hibernation to exogenous hormone supplementation, specifically LH and FSH ? Is any of this correct or am I way off here? I am only asking so I can understand this subject better not to be a smart ass or piss on anyone's cheerio's , also I hope no one feels that I took anything here out of context if I did help me understand. Thank You.
Last edited by 555mjolnir; 01-15-2013 at 09:45 PM. Reason: gramar
Associate Member
sorry for long post.
Also OP I understand you only wanted to know about use of var in your cycle. Sorry thread was hi-jacked.
Senior Member
Here is my 2 cents , since you are cutting.... you can lower your sust to 400 , and keep your tren at that dosage ( for me its still to much, but its works well for some people), you var is Ok at that dosage.. for PCT you need clomid with your nolva ( clomid 100,100, 50, 50) Nolva 40, 40, 20, 20.... i would recomend also using Hcg durring the cycle, and Ai.
If you decide to keep your sust at that dosage, then i would lower your tren to 400mg...you will still see great results... in my opinion there is no need to use tren and sust at the same dosage per week... the rest is O.k.
Associate Member
thanks guys, i read in previos threads that guys had to do a little trial and error to find out the correct tren test combo for each individual genetic make up just wanted to try something a little different this time. prolly gona lower the sust to cut back sides. appreciate the knowledge!!
VET
Sorry for the derail but if goal is just to cut bf and look nasty while doing it I'd save the var for last 6 weeks.
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