Frequency of workouts while on a cycle?

[WB1]

On a var cycle right now. Was planning on working out 6 days per week (3 day split twice per week). I have done this before both on and off a cycle and got great gains both times.

Now I just read this on another forum, which I have a feeling is against the rules to post, so I'll just quote the post itself.

"Those who use steroids will increase the duration of protein synthesis, so they can lift once and they will see the anabolic effect for much longer. Hence why they can lift once per week, and get a longer benefit from it; they are artificially increasing their rates of protein synthesis, and they get greater benefit from higher volume in a given day (for natties - each additional lift for a given muscle group will yield less benefit).

Those who are natural, on the other hand, will see rates of protein synthesis lasting for 24-48 hours. Once you're back at baseline, you are good to go again. Because it does not last as long as those with the synthetic help, you can and SHOULD increase your frequency for a larger cumulative protein synthesis effect in a given week. Lifting 2-3x per muscle group per week = optimal for natties. 2x per week being a good standard, 3x per week for muscle groups that are lagging. Often people will do squats 3x per week and see enormous benefits, for example.

More frequency for natties."

So is this BS or true?

[Sick_beard]

I always wondered about this too. Protein synthesis is elevated for longer when you're on cycle, but you also recover much faster at the same time.

I THINK the solution is to keep frequency the same as natty training (stimulate each muscle group more or less twice a week), but also increase volume while on cycle because you'll be able to get away with it.

[ironbeck]

If you where going for strength i would say yes, I only say this because it has been the case for me, especially when natty though, go figure.

[WB1]

Yes meaning yes it's smart to work out twice per week while on a cycle?

[stpete]

On a var cycle right now. Was planning on working out 6 days per week (3 day split twice per week). I have done this before both on and off a cycle and got great gains both times.

Now I just read this on another forum, which I have a feeling is against the rules to post, so I'll just quote the post itself.

"Those who use steroids will increase the duration of protein synthesis, so they can lift once and they will see the anabolic effect for much longer. Hence why they can lift once per week, and get a longer benefit from it; they are artificially increasing their rates of protein synthesis, and they get greater benefit from higher volume in a given day (for natties - each additional lift for a given muscle group will yield less benefit).

Those who are natural, on the other hand, will see rates of protein synthesis lasting for 24-48 hours. Once you're back at baseline, you are good to go again. Because it does not last as long as those with the synthetic help, you can and SHOULD increase your frequency for a larger cumulative protein synthesis effect in a given week. Lifting 2-3x per muscle group per week = optimal for natties. 2x per week being a good standard, 3x per week for muscle groups that are lagging. Often people will do squats 3x per week and see enormous benefits, for example.

More frequency for natties."

So is this BS or true?

Introduce me to anyone doing Squats 3x per week and i'll show you a person that can't even spell "squat."

BS!

[ironbeck]

For me yes, it's works the best, I have been through a lot of trial and error over 25 yrs, so what works best for me may not for someone else. But when I was graduating highschool and everyone was cycling I was not, I weighed 198 benched 375 squatted 550, and powered cleaned 275 natty. You know what I mean bro THis is all advise not carved(everyones words) in stone u try different shit AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND FIND WHAT WORKS BEST FOR U!

[ironbeck]

Yes meaning yes it's smart to work out twice per week while on a cycle?

And no, twice each body part..depends, I try to go 6x per week and may only work out 1body part sometimes, some days just cardio, I'm lucky if I can get 3days in a row, age, work, life...do your best, train HARD.

[Sick_beard]

Introduce me to anyone doing Squats 3x per week and i'll show you a person that can't even spell "squat."

BS!

If you adjust your volume accordingly, yes you can squat 3x a week. And if you're training natty, you will see better muscle/ strength gains this way than let's say doing squats once a week to the point of fatigue.

As the OP mentions, training naturally, protein synthesis peaks after 24 hours and by 48 it's pretty much back to baseline. After that you need to retain the muscle to reap max benefits.

[The Bear 79]

Because the muscles recover so quickly on cycle, this is my on cycle routine, I have made unbelievable gains on this regime.

Day 1: Chest & Traps

Day 2: Rest

Day 3: Arms & Legs

Day 4: Rest

Day 5: Back & Shoulders

Day 6: Chest & Traps

Day 7: Rest

Day 8: Arms & Shoulders

*Abs & Cardio everyday

My back & legs always grow larger & faster than the rest of me so I only work them once a week.

[crazy mike]

I say yes to twice. But the real mitigating factor for me and I think this is the TRUTH for good growth. When I over exert a muscle to the point of breaking it down (in the gym) I must rest to let it repair itself (grow). Adequate rest must be given for this to happen. So my body pain level will let me know when that muscle has recovered. Now to promote good and fast growth I must do this again before my muscle has time to start to go into atrophy. What I was told and found out to be true in my experience, is that my muscle will begin to start atrophy in 36 hours after recovery. With the added testosterone I can work harder, lift heavier, for more duration thus promoting more of the breakdown. Since I recover much quicker it lets me redo this process much quicker and promote growth and not stunt growth. A good hard train of a muscle should promote soreness for 72 hrs and then be ready to do it again before atrophy. I never changed my strategy from on or off, except with the knowledge that to get the most out of a steroid I have to take advantage of the extra strength, stamina and quicker recovery time to maximize my gains. Since I have worked the muscle harder and created more damage I must get more rest. That means better quality sleep rest. Be smart, push it, but let you body determine. Good growth for me is always to be sore and tight, if not I'm into atrophy

[crazy mike]

Hey "Bear" ecto's like me don't grow well with that much time in between. but that's me. I hope i didn't through anyone off. ...crazy mike ?

[warmouth]

Personally, I like once a week on or off. No rhyme or reason other than I like to lift 4 days a week, maybe 1 or 2 days of abs, forearms, and calves (calves are 2x weekly as I do them on leg day). As far as squatting 3x weekly, BS all the way. Unless you are squatting at 30-40% on the first day and doing 1 low rep set, then upping to 50% the second and doing the same. Legs take so much out of me, they are the only group I work on that day. I am exhausted after I do legs. I couldnt imagine doing them more than once a week.

[Sick_beard]

I say yes to twice. But the real mitigating factor for me and I think this is the TRUTH for good growth. When I over exert a muscle to the point of breaking it down (in the gym) I must rest to let it repair itself (grow). Adequate rest must be given for this to happen. So my body pain level will let me know when that muscle has recovered. Now to promote good and fast growth I must do this again before my muscle has time to start to go into atrophy. What I was told and found out to be true in my experience, is that my muscle will begin to start atrophy in 36 hours after recovery. With the added testosterone I can work harder, lift heavier, for more duration thus promoting more of the breakdown. Since I recover much quicker it lets me redo this process much quicker and promote growth and not stunt growth. A good hard train of a muscle should promote soreness for 72 hrs and then be ready to do it again before atrophy. I never changed my strategy from on or off, except with the knowledge that to get the most out of a steroid I have to take advantage of the extra strength, stamina and quicker recovery time to maximize my gains. Since I have worked the muscle harder and created more damage I must get more rest. That means better quality sleep rest. Be smart, push it, but let you body determine. Good growth for me is always to be sore and tight, if not I'm into atrophy

Most people don't realize that you have to rest anywhere from 2 - 5 mins between sets to maximize the load and tension you can put on the muscle during each set. I've heard it said time and time again to rest no more than 30 sec - 1 min between sets... That's great if your goal is to increase endurance, but for hypertrophy/ strength training, the longer you rest between sets the better (but of course not to the extreme point where you have to warm up all over again).

[crazy mike]

Agree with that.....mike

[crazy mike]

Workout starting primary the secondary
Day 1: chest/ traps
Day 2: back / arms
Day 3: legs / light back
Day 4: shoulders / traps
Day 5: Arms / chest
Days 6 & 7 rest, rest...at age 61 I need those two days off I've found. This is working great for me

[Sick_beard]

Personally, I like once a week on or off. No rhyme or reason other than I like to lift 4 days a week, maybe 1 or 2 days of abs, forearms, and calves (calves are 2x weekly as I do them on leg day). As far as squatting 3x weekly, BS all the way. Unless you are squatting at 30-40% on the first day and doing 1 low rep set, then upping to 50% the second and doing the same. Legs take so much out of me, they are the only group I work on that day. I am exhausted after I do legs. I couldnt imagine doing them more than once a week.

Ask ANYONE who's adjusted their volume to allow for more frequency whether or not they've seen better muscle/ strength gains or not, and you'll find the answer is always YES. But not everyone can do it. It took me nearly 2 months to make the transition from 1 body part split to training everything twice a week . Once you get your body in tune, the results are undeniably better.

Don't get me wrong, you can still see gains doing what you're doing. But you're not maximizing your results. Your training can be effective, but doesn't mean it's efficient.

[harley121]

Ask ANYONE who's adjusted their volume to allow for more frequency whether or not they've seen better muscle/ strength gains or not, and you'll find the answer is always YES. But not everyone can do it. It took me nearly 2 months to make the transition from 1 body part split to training everything twice a week . Once you get your body in tune, the results are undeniably better.

Don't get me wrong, you can still see gains doing what you're doing. But you're not maximizing your results. Your training can be effective, but doesn't mean it's efficient.

So Sick Beard, would you share your work out schd? Im on a 1x week hit everything Natty, ready to start cycle in Feb and would be interested in what your's looks like

[Sick_beard]

So Sick Beard, would you share your work out schd? Im on a 1x week hit everything Natty, ready to start cycle in Feb and would be interested in what your's looks like

The important point to take here is that increased frequency will yield better results. Doing full body workouts 3 times a week will give the best results to any beginner. Another strategy that works is to do one day upper body, one day lower body, rest and repeat. I think both of these work great even up to the intermediate/ advanced level.

What I followed in the past with great results was the push/pull/ leg workout routine split. Doing all three in a row, then take a day's rest, and repeat. You will also find that most competitive natural bodybuilders will follow something similar with their own personalized variation, depending on their goals. You will find plenty of examples of push/ pull routines to give you an idea.

[crazy mike]

I also do my cardio and my abs everyday if I can. You will find as he said all variations and what works for one might not work for someone else that stands to reason. So after a few months and years everyone finds what works best. The important thing (for me) is to work each muscle, each group, twice in a 6 day week. Always having one (1) day of complete rest for my overall recovery. It was like that when I was young. When I didn't take the day complete off once a week I would be over training (for me) and get to fatigued. I would even loose my appetite and energy. Then never getting back to hard intense workouts.

I've been fortunate that my life and my career n work n family always lent itself to me being totally worn out at the end of my training sessions...mike

[hankdiesel]

Because the muscles recover so quickly on cycle, this is my on cycle routine, I have made unbelievable gains on this regime.

Day 1: Chest & Traps

Day 2: Rest

Day 3: Arms & Legs

Day 4: Rest

Day 5: Back & Shoulders

Day 6: Chest & Traps

Day 7: Rest

Day 8: Arms & Shoulders

*Abs & Cardio everyday

My back & legs always grow larger & faster than the rest of me so I only work them once a week.

Arms and legs same day. This is a first and because you listed arms first my guess is you train them first.

[warmouth]

Ask ANYONE who's adjusted their volume to allow for more frequency whether or not they've seen better muscle/ strength gains or not, and you'll find the answer is always YES. But not everyone can do it. It took me nearly 2 months to make the transition from 1 body part split to training everything twice a week . Once you get your body in tune, the results are undeniably better.

Don't get me wrong, you can still see gains doing what you're doing. But you're not maximizing your results. Your training can be effective, but doesn't mean it's efficient.

Lol.

[canesfan804]

I just changed to the STS training(2xs a week) about 10 weeks ago. I am not on anything right now and can see my arms/ chest growing and my legs have started showing definition.Not trying to hyjack thread but when I was on cycle about 8 mos ago I noticed I didnt hurt like I do while off cycle. It sounds like you guys are still sore while on cycle. Is that correct? Just wondering if I may not have been pushing myself. I did gain about 20 lbs and decreased bf% by about 2%.

[warmouth]

Ask ANYONE who's adjusted their volume to allow for more frequency whether or not they've seen better muscle/ strength gains or not, and you'll find the answer is always YES. But not everyone can do it. It took me nearly 2 months to make the transition from 1 body part split to training everything twice a week . Once you get your body in tune, the results are undeniably better.

Don't get me wrong, you can still see gains doing what you're doing. But you're not maximizing your results. Your training can be effective, but doesn't mean it's efficient.

Keep in mind I am in no way tryingto be a smart a**, I just think it should be said that because you read that your way is good, or just think your way is good, that doesnt mean it works for everyone equally. Same with AAS. For some guys, they cant handle certain compounds, or the compounds just ist as effective. Once a week is the norm, but as you can see, alot of more experienced members here all do completely different workouts. No one person does the same, and they will swear by their splits because they work for them. Not, after reading over some of your threads, here is the comparison I would like to make. I have a pro giving me pretty much the workout plan he THINKS will benefit me, and it is his current workout. And he is my trainer. Look at his picture, then look at yours. Who do you think I am going to listen too?
or http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-E)&highlight=
Now, I am not saying you are wrong for you, I am just saying that you are wrong for alot of other people who wont benefit from your split. I tend to take advice from guys who have had years of training experience because they have learned from their mistakes and try to persuade their friends on what to do and not do. You will learn what works best for you eventually, just like me. From what I have been doing, I have put on 25 lbs in 1 year of the plan I am on. I dont think it is not efficient for me, do you? Age does play a big part in decisions. Like me, I was 29 when I ran my first cycle because I knew the risks of doing it too young. Alot of these youngsters here "want it now, and to hell with waiting" and that is what it is. Like I said, not trying to be rude or an a hole, just stating the facts.

[The Bear 79]

Arms and legs same day. This is a first and because you listed arms first my guess is you train them first.

Yes, the routine follows the written pattern.

I do admit this regime is a bit odd, but I'm walking proof that it works VERY well.

[Sick_beard]

I just changed to the STS training(2xs a week) about 10 weeks ago. I am not on anything right now and can see my arms/ chest growing and my legs have started showing definition.Not trying to hyjack thread but when I was on cycle about 8 mos ago I noticed I didnt hurt like I do while off cycle. It sounds like you guys are still sore while on cycle. Is that correct? Just wondering if I may not have been pushing myself. I did gain about 20 lbs and decreased bf% by about 2%.

Being sore has nothing to do with muscle growth. When you train more frequently, research shows that your muscles will adapt and recover faster. That's why I notice with increased frequency soreness is not as bad. But whenever I train less frequently, I start getting soreness.

[crazy mike]

Being sore has nothing to do with muscle growth. When you train more frequently, research shows that your muscles will adapt and recover faster. That's why I notice with increased frequency soreness is not as bad. But whenever I train less frequently, I start getting soreness.

As I said your muscles will, in very short time go from recovery to (with a grain of salt) atrophy. So in that fine line less frequency will promote that soreness (i think ur talking) because of going from in and out of slight atrophy. Its like a rolling start or a dead start. Ya know just what he and most all of us say it is what works for you and again, patience, it take time. Your not going anywhere fast in the great picture. Simple principals about the muscle growth. For me, no pain no gain. I gain when I go from pain to recovery n pain, leaving little time for any atrophy. ...not so crazy mike

[crazy mike]

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As I said your muscles will, in very short time go from recovery to (with a grain of salt) atrophy. So in that fine line less frequency will promote that soreness (i think ur talking) because of going from in and out of slight atrophy. Its like a rolling start or a dead start. Ya know just what he and most all of us say it is what works for you and again, patience, it take time. Your not going anywhere fast in the great picture. Simple principals about the muscle growth. For me, no pain no gain. I gain when I go from pain to recovery n pain, leaving little time for any atrophy. ...not so crazy mike

I disagree with the statement that muscle soreness has nothing to do with muscle growth. B*LL SH*T. I’m sure we all are above me writing a dissertation on bodybuilding 101 and how the body promotes muscle growth through exercise. Putting it simply without all he details of the rest , diet, training details a muscle will get larger n stronger by a process of repair and necessity. By straining the muscle we cause tissue damage, thus pain. So the body mends it self. Then we keep increasing the load and the body starts to grow more tissue (mass) to be able to consistently handle the increased load. We do it again and again. More damage (pain) more healing, more load more building (growth) and all the time getting sore from the tama. The people that train with little frequency and intensity do not grow much muscle mass and strength. Really It’s a very simple if you understand very basic principals of muscle growth. If on a cycle I would be stupid to not train like a MF er and stay sore as long as I know I am getting enough time for recover and before atrophy.

Also take note of my use of the word consistently . When I said that if the load is increased consistently the muscle will need more and more fibers. This shows that the workouts will have to be CONSISTENT and frequent or the body just has no call for growth......... Wow.....NOT SO crazy mike

[Sick_beard]

@ Mike: I agree with everything you said, except the part about soreness. No soreness is required for muscle growth. In fact, I find that it hinders my next day's training to be sore after a workout. Unless you're a complete beginner, I see soreness as a sign of slow recovery or too much volume. Nothing more, nothing less.

[panntastic]

@ Mike: I agree with everything you said, except the part about soreness. No soreness is required for muscle growth. In fact, I find that it hinders my next day's training to be sore after a workout. Unless you're a complete beginner, I see soreness as a sign of slow recovery or too much volume. Nothing more, nothing less.

This is beyond me but where does the saying
"No pain no gain" originate?

[bigsiv]

Great debate guys very interested!

[panntastic]

It would be good to hear from some of the bigger guys like Marcus or Bear on their theory of training for growth.

[bigsiv]

It would be good to hear from some of the bigger guys like Marcus or Bear on their theory of training for growth.

And this major issue of soreness/growth

[crazy mike]

It would be good to hear from some of the bigger guys like Marcus or Bear on their theory of training for growth.

I agree with that. I'd like to hear from "Bear" and some other big successful guys. But The no pain is a comom statement and not the "Rocky" statement because that is what the body does. Break it down in the gym, fuel the repair and rest for the process and do it again. NO pain no F*ckin gain. Pain is relative to the person and their tolerance and familirarity with that pain... huh mike

[crazy mike]

@ Mike: I agree with everything you said, except the part about soreness. No soreness is required for muscle growth. In fact, I find that it hinders my next day's training to be sore after a workout. Unless you're a complete beginner, I see soreness as a sign of slow recovery or too much volume. Nothing more, nothing less.

You shouldn't be working the same muscle the next day. So the soreness of that muscle should not be an issue. Did you post your routine in complete outline. I'd like to see it and also forgive me but how much experience do you have in training ? ....crazy mike

[panntastic]

I agree with that. I'd like to hear from "Bear" and some other big successful guys. But The no pain is a comom statement and not the "Rocky" statement because that is what the body does. Break it down in the gym, fuel the repair and rest for the process and do it again. NO pain no F*ckin gain. Pain is relative to the person and their tolerance and familirarity with that pain... huh mike

Like I said the science behind it is beyond me my kind of science is in the lab.
I know my body how it reacts to certain training and different compounds and I'm sure we all know how our own body's react by now.
Were all individuals and no 2 people are the same.
I'm liking this thread great insight from many different approaches

[dj erk15]

Great info bear. Will try this.

[Sick_beard]

You shouldn't be working the same muscle the next day. So the soreness of that muscle should not be an issue. Did you post your routine in complete outline. I'd like to see it and also forgive me but how much experience do you have in training ? ....crazy mike

This is not about me, it's about the science behind muscle growth. But if you're really interested this is my current routine.

Day1: Chest/ arms/ abs
Day2: Legs.
Day3: Back/ shoulders/ Cardio

Rest then repeat.

[belva]

I know that in weight lifting is normal to squat at least twice a week plus all clean and jerk and snatch etc.. and normally during the preparation for international compatition they squat even 4 times a week with double training morning and evening. But again they don't work for bodybuilding, and the range of repetition is really low.

[panntastic]

I've always trained upper legs once a week due to quads growing stupidly fast but I do train calves 2/3 times a week being a relatively small muscle group.

[Sick_beard]

I've always trained upper legs once a week due to quads growing stupidly fast but I do train calves 2/3 times a week being a relatively small muscle group.

It's a good strategy to train a muscle once a week if you want it to grow slower than the rest. But it would be counterproductive to do that with ALL muscle groups obviously.