Why PCT

[AK1983]

My question might be stupid but if I am on AI AND HCG during the cycle then why need PCT with CLOMID and nolva? Why not keep going with AI AND HCG? It does similar.

[Gaspaco]

You need a SERM(clomid, nolva) in your PCT to start your natty test production!

[lovbyts]

HCG is to keep your little swimmers swimming, staying fertile.
AI is to keep E2 from going to high and causing you all the sides that go along with it, emotional, gyno etc as well as diminished gains.

PCT is to kick start your system into producing Testosterone again since it has stopped for 12+ weeks due injecting test on your cycle.

[Lemonada8]

My question might be stupid but if I am on AI AND HCG during the cycle then why need PCT with CLOMID and nolva? Why not keep going with AI AND HCG? It does similar.

no they are completely different. PCT is a must. check out the pct forum

[clarky.]

Unless u want tits and ed for a long long time dont pct it's a must mate.but u do get a few lucky ppl who are fine with no pct.

[snowman]

^^^^ what everyone said.

[john888]

Is possible, for you is enough only HCG and tribulus terestris. You must try and you see...

[Bio-Active]

My question might be stupid but if I am on AI AND HCG during the cycle then why need PCT with CLOMID and nolva? Why not keep going with AI AND HCG? It does similar.

Because hcg mimics your body's production of lh and so long as you are using hcg you will not be producing lh. Clomid and nolvadex will help you to start producing lh faster after you discontinue the hcg.

[AnabolicDoc]

HCG is to keep your little swimmers swimming, staying fertile.
AI is to keep E2 from going to high and causing you all the sides that go along with it, emotional, gyno etc as well as diminished gains.

PCT is to kick start your system into producing Testosterone again since it has stopped for 12+ weeks due injecting test on your cycle.

^^^100%.

You need a SERM(s) for PCT. Also if you do high dose hCG in the beginning of your PCT, which I recommend but plenty of ppl don't, you may need an AI while dosing the hCG as well

[< <Samson> >]

Unless u want tits and ed for a long long time

Who doesn't want tits and a limp noodle? I thought that's why we all juiced.

[Soar]

Who doesn't want tits and a limp noodle? I thought that's why we all juiced.

Hell yea sign me up!!

[Bio-Active]

^^^100%.

You need a SERM(s) for PCT. Also if you do high dose hCG in the beginning of your PCT, which I recommend but plenty of ppl don't, you may need an AI while dosing the hCG as well

I would much rather see a person run a moderate dose of hcg through there cycle. 250iu 2x EW rather than upping the dose and risking desensitizing the ledig cells

[bigp87]

Always better to be safe than sorry, run a full pct if possible.

In saying that, I have come off extended cycles 16+ weeks with nothing but just natural products such as DAA and recovered fine... But I consider myself one of those 'lucky few'

[AnabolicDoc]

I definitely agree that it should also be run during the cycle at a low dose. I just like to increase the dose substantially during the first 2 weeks or so directly following the end of the cycle, which is something that I know many dont agree with it (such as yourself). I think there's more than one way to get the job done and that different strategies work well for differentrrent ppl.

[Lemonada8]

I definitely agree that it should also be run during the cycle at a low dose. I just like to increase the dose substantially during the first 2 weeks or so directly following the end of the cycle, which is something that I know many dont agree with it (such as yourself). I think there's more than one way to get the job done and that different strategies work well for differentrrent ppl.

ill just say it.. I dont agree with the increase dose before pct.. so please elaborate on why you recommend it.
what do you consider substantially?
What about the desensitization to LH on the leydig cells that occurs? And the increase in bio-inactive LH? those are both counterproductive to PCT.

HCG ran during the cycle at 250iu's is enough to keep intratesticular testosterone volume high which keeps the testes working, and since they dont stop working; they get back to normal much sooner. That will leave the hypo and the pit to get back to stabilization, which is much faster of a feedback rate and dont have nearly the same issues that the testes have trying to restart and achieve adequate Test production

[ChiveOn]

Who doesn't want tits and a limp noodle? I thought that's why we all juiced.

I don't even lift on cycle. This is the only effect I desire! Lol

[AnabolicDoc]

ill just say it.. I dont agree with the increase dose before pct.. so please elaborate on why you recommend it.
what do you consider substantially?
What about the desensitization to LH on the leydig cells that occurs? And the increase in bio-inactive LH? those are both counterproductive to PCT.

HCG ran during the cycle at 250iu's is enough to keep intratesticular testosterone volume high which keeps the testes working, and since they dont stop working; they get back to normal much sooner. That will leave the hypo and the pit to get back to stabilization, which is much faster of a feedback rate and dont have nearly the same issues that the testes have trying to restart and achieve adequate Test production

I'm a believer in it bc it's recommended by many infertility doctors for ASIH (Anabolic Steroids Induced Hypogonadism), which is in effect the same rationale as what's being done in PCT. Also, I was very impressed with Scaly's study eventhough his population size was limited. And it is what's recommended by him and his colleagues who have treated well over 1000 individuals with ASIH. I also agree with the rationale behind it, which is that it's easier to keep the testes going once they've been jumpstarted by high dose hCG. I don't think desensitization will happen with ten x 2000iu injections eod.

I don't expect everyone to agree as I don't think there's a preponderance of evidence on any given side.

[Lemonada8]

oh, ok. So (not trying to be rude) but you are just repeating what Scally said, and going with that. Ok, i wont post my response because you dont have the proper knowledge to answer in the way im looking for

Although, i cant find anywhere that he uses 10 x 2000iu EOD injections... If you could point me to where he refers to that, please do so.

[cro]

Everyones different when it comes to recovering.i know people who do not believe in pct gear. (breast cancer drugs) .it can take a year to come back naturally if you do not use nolva/torem/clomid,AND THATS IF YOU DO.swifto has scallys write up in his threads. I dont think the hcg dose was that high? I will look into this. THIS GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING WE PREACH ON THIS BOARD THOUGH TO NOT PCT. TIME ON +PCT =TIME OFF!!!!!!