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  1. #1
    HawaiiLifr's Avatar
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    Bacteria in gear causing PIP?

    Hey everyone,

    I'm in my eighth week of first cycle. I'm impressed by the results. I haven't had any problems with pip until recently. It comes like clockwork on the 3rd day after injection, the area gets swollen and hard and lasts 3-4 days. When it's on the quads I can hardly walk. For the first time in the cycle I've had to miss the gym. The only difference I can think of is I started new bottle of gear (from same ugl). When I popped open the cap the entire top w/ rubber membrane came off. I quickly put it back and injected that test into the old bottle. Is it possible the gear has become contaminated by that small exposure? I hate to dump it. It's a full bottle of 500mg/ml test e from a top UGL. Thanks for any thoughts. Cheers.

  2. #2
    lovbyts's Avatar
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    What size pin are you using?
    You could always heat the gear in the over to try to kill the bacteria just don't heat it to much to long to cause damage to the stopper.

  3. #3
    HawaiiLifr's Avatar
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    I use a 25g for injection. An 18g for drawing into the syringe.

  4. #4
    lovbyts's Avatar
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    How long?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    How long?
    I'm using a 25g 1" needle in my delts and quads. Can you microwave it?

  6. #6
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    NO do not microwave it. #1 you have metal around the top cap to keep it on and it will damage the hormones. I dont remember what the heat range is but will try to find it.
    Quads and glutes should be 1 1/4 - 1 1/2

    I would suggest 225f for 20-30 min sitting on a cooky sheet in the over. You might want to vent the top with a needle since yours is loose and may come off due to pressure. Typically it wont but in your case it might.
    Last edited by lovbyts; 01-29-2013 at 03:06 AM.

  7. #7
    Atomini's Avatar
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    PIP is not caused by bacteria. If that were the case, youad be bed ridden in a hospital right now with an IV of antibiotics pumping through you and a massive abscess at the injection site. PIP is caused by many different factors: the type of oil used in the gear, the concentration of the gear, solvents used, cosolvents used, sterilizers in the gear, and most importantly: your body's own response and reaction to the liquid itself.

  8. #8
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    I use a 25g 1" for everything including glutes and quads. I pip every eod from my injections. Some days it's not that bad, other days like today i have to sit on my right butt cheek because they left hurts too much lol.

  9. #9
    HawaiiLifr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    NO do not microwave it. #1 you have metal around the top cap to keep it on and it will damage the hormones. I dont remember what the heat range is but will try to find it.
    Quads and glutes should be 1 1/4 - 1 1/2

    I would suggest 225f for 20-30 min sitting on a cooky sheet in the over. You might want to vent the top with a needle since yours is loose and may come off due to pressure. Typically it wont but in your case it might.
    Thanks a lot I appreciate that.

  10. #10
    HawaiiLifr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    PIP is not caused by bacteria. If that were the case, youad be bed ridden in a hospital right now with an IV of antibiotics pumping through you and a massive abscess at the injection site. PIP is caused by many different factors: the type of oil used in the gear, the concentration of the gear, solvents used, cosolvents used, sterilizers in the gear, and most importantly: your body's own response and reaction to the liquid itself.
    That's good to know, thanks. I thought it might be a long shot

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by anahny View Post
    I use a 25g 1" for everything including glutes and quads. I pip every eod from my injections. Some days it's not that bad, other days like today i have to sit on my right butt cheek because they left hurts too much lol.
    HAHA... I'm coming up with some great excuses at work. "Oh I strained my leg carrying my kid up the stairs". Meanwhile, I've never been in better shape or looked this good since I was 18- when I got in shape for the USMC.

  12. #12
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    Boil it first for 30 minutes. Baking for sterility is a terrible practice.
    And it may just hurt from being so concentrated.

  13. #13
    swm1972 is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Heat isn't a reliable method of sterilization. In order to truly obtain a sterile solution via hearing you'd likely destroy the hormone as well. Filtering is how pharmaceutical companies and compounding pharmacies sterilize these solutions to make them ready for human use.

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    Atomini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swm1972 View Post
    Heat isn't a reliable method of sterilization. In order to truly obtain a sterile solution via hearing you'd likely destroy the hormone as well. Filtering is how pharmaceutical companies and compounding pharmacies sterilize these solutions to make them ready for human use.
    Absolutely wrong!!!

    Sorry for making that so abrupt, but pharmaceutical companies combine both filtering methods AND autoclaves. An autoclave is a machine used to sterilize equipment and supplies by subjecting them to high pressure saturated steam at 121 C for around 15–20 minutes depending on the size of the load and the contents. It is pretty much the equivalent of boiling it. Autoclaves are widely used in microbiology, medicine, tattooing, body piercing, veterinary science, mycology, dentistry, chiropody and prosthetics fabrication. They vary in size and function depending on the media to be sterilized. A medical autoclave is a device that uses steam to sterilize equipment and other objects. This means that all bacteria, viruses, fungi, and spores are inactivated. However, prions, such as those associated with Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, may not be destroyed by autoclaving at the typical 134 C for three minutes or 121 C for 15 minutes.

    The other problem with your post is that you said that by heating anabolic steroids , the heat would destroy the hormone. This is also wrong. Anabolic steroids are such small and compact hormones with unique polarity, electronegativity, fat solubility, and other chemical properties that they require EXTREME HEAT to destroy them. For example, Testosterone 's melting point is 155 C (311 F).

    You can boil a vial of anabolic steroids no problem, just make sure the heat does not reach 155 C (311 F). The boiling point of water is 100 C (212 F). Increasing the heat a little above that is no problem and will not damage the hormones.

    Peptide hormones are a different story. They will deform, denature and become damaged/destroyed VERY easily (especially the larger the peptide chain and resulting complex protein structure is).

  15. #15
    HawaiiLifr's Avatar
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    I don't think my gear is spoiled, otherwise I'd probably be fighting it like the flu, or worse. It's probably just dosed higher than the other one and I'm not used to it yet. Cheers brothers

  16. #16
    joejoe48978 is offline New Member
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    Nice response

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    PIP is not caused by bacteria. If that were the case, youad be bed ridden in a hospital right now with an IV of antibiotics pumping through you and a massive abscess at the injection site. PIP is caused by many different factors: the type of oil used in the gear, the concentration of the gear, solvents used, cosolvents used, sterilizers in the gear, and most importantly: your body's own response and reaction to the liquid itself.
    Atomini, with respect I have to disagree with you. While I agree that PIP is generally caused by gear that is manufactured with too high a concentration of AAS (which is certainly likely to be the case here), too little cosolvents, the wrong PH...usually due to poorly manufactured raws, and many other things. I do feel that PIP can indeed be caused by lack of sterility, many is the time that someone has come on the lab section and had gear that either had PIP from day one or gear that developed PIP after sitting for a while (colony growth) and in both cases after autoclaving for a half hour to 45 minutes the problem dissapeared. I am no scholar as far as chemistry goes but from what I do know I would think that bacteria would be the likely culprit and the swelling and redness and pain localized heat etc. would be the result of the bodies efforts to defeat the bacteria before it got to the point of abcesses and the hospital etc.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Far from massive View Post
    Atomini, with respect I have to disagree with you. While I agree that PIP is generally caused by gear that is manufactured with too high a concentration of AAS (which is certainly likely to be the case here), too little cosolvents, the wrong PH...usually due to poorly manufactured raws, and many other things. I do feel that PIP can indeed be caused by lack of sterility, many is the time that someone has come on the lab section and had gear that either had PIP from day one or gear that developed PIP after sitting for a while (colony growth) and in both cases after autoclaving for a half hour to 45 minutes the problem dissapeared. I am no scholar as far as chemistry goes but from what I do know I would think that bacteria would be the likely culprit and the swelling and redness and pain localized heat etc. would be the result of the bodies efforts to defeat the bacteria before it got to the point of abcesses and the hospital etc.
    Oh of course, I am not disagreeing with you at all.

    Typical PIP is caused by the factors I mentioned earlier.

    Bacterial PIP is basically an infection, and there are a whole lot of other symptoms associated with it, such as swelling, inflammation, redness at the injection site accompanied with fever and such, all during which PIP will increase far greater than typical PIP. Often to the point where movement is very difficult due to the pain.

  19. #19
    Far from massive's Avatar
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    Hey on a way different subject just noticed your new AVI nice work!!

  20. #20
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Thanks! Still work in progress though, lol. I'm down to that last amount of fat that is just so stubborn to remove, despite the T3, Albuterol, and gear lol. I'll get it eventually, i've done it before!

  21. #21
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    nice info

  22. #22
    HawaiiLifr's Avatar
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    I'm going to boil it per Atomini's instructions and report back.

  23. #23
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawaiiLifr View Post
    I'm going to boil it per Atomini's instructions and report back.
    Please remember to monitor the temperature.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    Please remember to monitor the temperature.
    Lol. I'm going to guess a constant 100 C.

  25. #25
    swm1972 is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini

    Absolutely wrong!!!

    Sorry for making that so abrupt, but pharmaceutical companies combine both filtering methods AND autoclaves. An autoclave is a machine used to sterilize equipment and supplies by subjecting them to high pressure saturated steam at 121 C for around 15-20 minutes depending on the size of the load and the contents. It is pretty much the equivalent of boiling it. Autoclaves are widely used in microbiology, medicine, tattooing, body piercing, veterinary science, mycology, dentistry, chiropody and prosthetics fabrication. They vary in size and function depending on the media to be sterilized. A medical autoclave is a device that uses steam to sterilize equipment and other objects. This means that all bacteria, viruses, fungi, and spores are inactivated. However, prions, such as those associated with Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, may not be destroyed by autoclaving at the typical 134 C for three minutes or 121 C for 15 minutes.

    The other problem with your post is that you said that by heating anabolic steroids , the heat would destroy the hormone. This is also wrong. Anabolic steroids are such small and compact hormones with unique polarity, electronegativity, fat solubility, and other chemical properties that they require EXTREME HEAT to destroy them. For example, Testosterone 's melting point is 155 C (311 F).

    You can boil a vial of anabolic steroids no problem, just make sure the heat does not reach 155 C (311 F). The boiling point of water is 100 C (212 F). Increasing the heat a little above that is no problem and will not damage the hormones.

    Peptide hormones are a different story. They will deform, denature and become damaged/destroyed VERY easily (especially the larger the peptide chain and resulting complex protein structure is).
    So you are saying they don't filter it? Because I've toured the compounding pharmacy I get my HRT test cyp from. And I know you are wrong. Do they heat? Sure. So did I when home brewing to get it to hold. Final filtering is what creates sterility. Period. In order to rely on heat alone to sterilize this compound for injection you would damage the hormone.

    Why do you suppose on my pharmaceutical grade test cyp it is in an amber bottle that clearly states to store away from light and heat?

    Additionally an autoclave doesn't just use heat. It uses pressure and heat. It is this combination that help make it effective. Also, the solvents alone should theoretically kill any living bacteria in the solution.

    If this guys gear is truly infected with bacteria to suggest heating in the oven as a reliable fix is a horrible suggestion.
    Last edited by swm1972; 01-30-2013 at 05:22 PM.

  26. #26
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swm1972 View Post
    So you are saying they don't filter it? Because I've toured the compounding pharmacy I get my HRT test cyp from. And I know you are wrong. Do they heat? Sure. So did I when home brewing to get it to hold. Final filtering is what creates sterility. Period. In order to rely on heat alone to sterilize this compound for injection you would damage the hormone.

    Why do you suppose on my pharmaceutical grade test cyp it is in an amber bottle that clearly states to store away from light and heat?
    I did say they filter it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini

    I did say they filter it.
    Read edited version. I was typing while you were responding. Heat and pressure. He going to get that in his oven? Telling him this is a solution to bacteria laden gear is horrible advice.

  28. #28
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swm1972 View Post
    Read edited version. I was typing while you were responding. Heat and pressure. He going to get that in his oven? Telling him this is a solution to bacteria laden gear is horrible advice.
    Of course, I have always told people that in order to properly sterilize gear, a Whatman filter of the appropriate size pores must be utilized. My response was intended to clarify the whole idea that the hormones can be destroyed by the heat of boiling water. Boiling water is not hot enough to destroy steroid hormones.

  29. #29
    swm1972 is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini

    Of course, I have always told people that in order to properly sterilize gear, a Whatman filter of the appropriate size pores must be utilized. My response was intended to clarify the whole idea that the hormones can be destroyed by the heat of boiling water. Boiling water is not hot enough to destroy steroid hormones.
    Destroy? Perhaps not. Degrade? I'm not taking that chance.

    http://thyroid.about.com/od/thyroidd...gsinsummer.htm

    Not gear related, but there is a reason medications are labeled as avoid heat. And if a warm summer day can affect it what is 200F going to do.

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