Advice

[Synergy1]

I originally had my mind made up to try HGH and tried to educate myself thru reading thru all the forums that have anything to do with hgh. While I have 126iu to start with, i'm starting to wonder if I made the right choice. I am a thin guy with an athletic build and I want to add muscle. Not body builder huge, but fight club size! If you were a newbie and know what you know now----what would you suggest to get the ball rolling?

[Soar]

HGH can be great if its legit but it will cost you a fortune to see gains using it.

[MickeyKnox]

I originally had my mind made up to try HGH and tried to educate myself thru reading thru all the forums that have anything to do with hgh. While I have 126iu to start with, i'm starting to wonder if I made the right choice. I am a thin guy with an athletic build and I want to add muscle. Not body builder huge, but fight club size! If you were a newbie and know what you know now----what would you suggest to get the ball rolling?

I would suggest you learn how to eat properly. Seriously, if your dream is to be skinny like those twigs in fight club, youre aiming too low.

You first need to put on some weight naturally with food. Hit up the Nutritional Forum and develop a proper diet that WILL promote weight gain and add LBM to your small frame. Then head over to the Exercise Forum and pen out a regime that will add mucsle and strength in order to build a solid foundation BEFORE you consider HGH or AAS.

Here a few links to get you started.


Hard Gainers - Gaining Weight

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!#.UISXU2fX_ft

Workouts and Lifting techniques

http://forums.steroid.com/forumdispl...S#.UHnjba7X_fs

Nutritional Forum

http://forums.steroid.com/forumdispl...M#.UHNufa7X_fs

Dieting 101: Lean Bulking

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...*#.UMy5cKzX_fs

[Papa Smurf]

^ X2 Mickey is wise, Mickey is good!!

[Synergy1]

[QUOTE=MickeyKnox;6365871]I would suggest you learn how to eat properly. Seriously, if your dream is to be skinny like those twigs in fight club, youre aiming too low.

You first need to put on some weight naturally with food. Hit up the Nutritional Forum and develop a proper diet that WILL promote weight gain and add LBM to your small frame. Then head over to the Exercise Forum and pen out a regime that will add mucsle and strength in order to build a solid foundation BEFORE you consider HGH or AAS.



Thanks for the info! I hear you. I guess I should have included a little more info: I am on a 6 meal day diet plan that I try to get 4k-4.5k calories in. Lots of lean proteins with quality fats. I can keep my weight in the mid 170's when not hitting the gym like I like to. I try to minimize my cardio b/c it just seems to melt my gains off. Not neccessarily a huge difference in visual size, but i always dip 10-12 pounds. Im looking for something to get me over the hump and be able to add size and steady my weight around 180. I think my natural weight would be somewhere around the 150's if I didn't train or amp up my diet. I feel like I have about as solid of a foundation as i'm going to get and looking to take the next step. I will admit this is new territory for me, but it's not like i'm going in without a strong background in nutrition and weightlifting. It's difficult b/c you always think your situation is unique when in fact there has been thousands before you. Does this change your advice or re-affirm it? Thanks for replying.

[MickeyKnox]

Need full stats including age, height, weight, BF%, years lifting seriously.

List everything you ate yesterday.

[Synergy1]

HGH can be great if its legit but it will cost you a fortune to see gains using it.

Yeah that seems to be a consensus! In your opinion are there less sides with hgh compared with AAS?

[Synergy1]

Need full stats including age, height, weight, BF%, years lifting seriously.

List everything you ate yesterday.

30 yr old male--177lbs--5''10---bf% hovers b/t 8-11% (7fold), Weight lifting: Powerlifting throughout high school @ 132lbs State Champ, collegiate years were all about fitness and endurance for triathelons. Participated in a human physio study at Kansas for plyometrics, And now I am a weekend warrior for extreme sports. I admit I focus more on core and the upper body these days b/c I no longer compete, but I hit it hard a minimum 4 days per wk---And I do some form of lifting 6 days per week.

Yesterday's diet, which is fairly monotenous was:
Home made blender special 2 per day
- 2 cups of oatmeal
- 2 cups of frozen berries
- 2 Tbsp of peanut butter
- 2 scoops of ON 100% whey
- 2 cups of water

Breakfast post workout 645ish
4 or 5 eggs sometimes it depends on what number is left in the carton!
1\2 cup oats
1 cup milk chocolate

pre lunch break
1 large chicken breast pre grilled and zip locked
1 cup of soy wasabi almonds
1 avacado---i just split it and put powdered lime juice on it
1 cup milk
2 cups brocolli/or sloppy steamed spinach

lunch break
sliced turkey/ chicken breast/ on a wheat/ spinach tortilla
1 can tuna have to choke this down---sometimes canned salmon
1/2 cup oats
1 tbs olive oil with a small amount of romaine and lemon juice
1 carton (small) of milk when i have it

around 5ish
2 cups brocolli and assorted veggies
1 can tuna
another avacado
1 cup milk


meal 5
at least 8 oz of lean pork or steak usually over a salad with lemon dressing/olive oil
1 cup milk
1 tbs olive oil

meal 6
any type of meat i can find--i grill in mass quantities and put it in zip locks
2 cups plain yogurt
1 can of tuna if i can choke it down.
another blender special.


Its a full time job to keep this up and sometimes i'll end up in a rut and stray here and there---eating out. My work fridge looks like a science experiment of zip locked bags. I don't find it easy to maintain, but doing the prep work is essential.

[calstate23]

I originally had my mind made up to try HGH and tried to educate myself thru reading thru all the forums that have anything to do with hgh. While I have 126iu to start with, i'm starting to wonder if I made the right choice. I am a thin guy with an athletic build and I want to add muscle. Not body builder huge, but fight club size! If you were a newbie and know what you know now----what would you suggest to get the ball rolling?

Even if you were a prime candidate for HGH 126 iu's is nothing and not even close enough for a full cycle....And if it's not pharm grade then that's also another issue...Gh alone isn't super huge muscle builder...That is the combination of gh and steroids together...If you're looking for quick muscle then steroids if your answer...

Of course if you are ready for it...In shape and have been training already etc..

[Synergy1]

Even if you were a prime candidate for HGH 126 iu's is nothing and not even close enough for a full cycle....And if it's not pharm grade then that's also another issue...Gh alone isn't super huge muscle builder...That is the combination of gh and steroids together...If you're looking for quick muscle then steroids if your answer...

Of course if you are ready for it...In shape and have been training already etc..

Obviously it is supposed to be pharm grade and by all indications it will be(always a risk its not). I am able to have a continuous supply so the 126 was just to start---Can't afford to buy a years supply, nor would i want to risk that big of an order right off the get go. It's starting to seem like a combo of the two might be the best way to go. Have you had any personal experience you'd like to share? Where did you start at size wise?

[calstate23]

Obviously it is supposed to be pharm grade and by all indications it will be(always a risk its not). I am able to have a continuous supply so the 126 was just to start---Can't afford to buy a years supply, nor would i want to risk that big of an order right off the get go. It's starting to seem like a combo of the two might be the best way to go. Have you had any personal experience you'd like to share? Where did you start at size wise?

Nice, well as long as you can get more...If you run it I would try to do it for a least 6 months...It is a great fat burner...But like I said if you're just looking for some size and definition the ol' juice might be your best option....

Priming with gh and adding in steroids around month 3 is when you blow up bodybuilder style if you have pharm and already conditioned with size...

If you think combo is best you might want to just try a basic steroid cycle first and see how that treats you...

[fit2bOld]

That's just about 6- 8 weeks and thats would be quite a low dose.
I know guys running 10iu a day. so thats 18 days. Growth is a long term commitment usually 6 months to a year.

[warmouth]

Even if you were a prime candidate for HGH 126 iu's is nothing and not even close enough for a full cycle....And if it's not pharm grade then that's also another issue...Gh alone isn't super huge muscle builder...That is the combination of gh and steroids together...If you're looking for quick muscle then steroids if your answer...

Of course if you are ready for it...In shape and have been training already etc..

Agree 100%! 126 IUs dont comeclose to enough for the goals you have. Thing is, if you are 170lbs, youre about the right weight for the "fight club" look. Those guys are just thin, and low BF. You can get that with diet alone, and no need for GH or AAS. The biggest problem I am seeing is that you say you are taking in 4-5000 calories(if I am not mistaken), and you weigh 170lbs. Did you just now start that diet? If you have been doing it awhile, you should be quite a bit heavier than 170, unless you are short. That may calories is only 1300 less than th Bear, and he is like 267 with 10%BF.

[Soar]

Yeah that seems to be a consensus! In your opinion are there less sides with hgh compared with AAS?

I haven't experienced HGH but one day I will, once I can afford to drop several thousand dollars of some that's "legit" lol

[Synergy1]

Agree 100%! 126 IUs dont comeclose to enough for the goals you have. Thing is, if you are 170lbs, youre about the right weight for the "fight club" look. Those guys are just thin, and low BF. You can get that with diet alone, and no need for GH or AAS. The biggest problem I am seeing is that you say you are taking in 4-5000 calories(if I am not mistaken), and you weigh 170lbs. Did you just now start that diet? If you have been doing it awhile, you should be quite a bit heavier than 170, unless you are short. That may calories is only 1300 less than th Bear, and he is like 267 with 10%BF.

I'm two weeks into the increased nutritional cycle. I carry the weight extremely well but my chest and arms don't match my body. I'm not a beanpole by any means, and I train with 100% intensity----I just can't get to the point where I'm happy about my chest/arms and back. I have the cut look, just no mass to the chest and arms.

[Synergy1]

That's just about 6- 8 weeks and thats would be quite a low dose.
I know guys running 10iu a day. so thats 18 days. Growth is a long term commitment usually 6 months to a year.

The guy i'm getting my stuff from says it will be a huge difference in taking this instead of underdosed gh. He is very knowledgable on the subject and provides great references (literature). Before I go further, I will stress that I don't know this guy personally and realize scammers are very good at what they do. I got the first kit on him---says I should get labwork to see my increases as a sign of trust. He supports all his advice with concise answers and says I have all access to any questions and concerns. The max I wanted to take per day was 3iu---being as i am new to everything. I make a damn good living but when you add up dietary needs, gear, gym membership---its getting a little crazy thinking i might need 10 iu per day. +++if it doesn't break any rules---what does it take per day(out of pocket) to take care of your body like this?

[Synergy1]

I haven't experienced HGH but one day I will, once I can afford to drop several thousand dollars of some that's "legit" lol

Its such a huge financial comittment and I want to make sure its the right way to go. It seems like it is hard to find peace of mind with this. If I feel like i'm getting healthy and safe gear and listening to Veteran advice, I'm totally okay with the whole thing. Just feels like I'll have to spin the wheel on what is real and what isn't.

[calstate23]

The guy i'm getting my stuff from says it will be a huge difference in taking this instead of underdosed gh. He is very knowledgable on the subject and provides great references (literature). Before I go further, I will stress that I don't know this guy personally and realize scammers are very good at what they do. I got the first kit on him---says I should get labwork to see my increases as a sign of trust. He supports all his advice with concise answers and says I have all access to any questions and concerns. The max I wanted to take per day was 3iu---being as i am new to everything. I make a damn good living but when you add up dietary needs, gear, gym membership---its getting a little crazy thinking i might need 10 iu per day. +++if it doesn't break any rules---what does it take per day(out of pocket) to take care of your body like this?

If you don't personally know the guy he is probably scamming you...When we say pharmaceutical grade we mean it is made by a true pharmaceutical company that is if you had a script could pick up at the pharmacy...For instance, Norditropin is pharm grade HGH by Novo Nordisk, Humatrope is pharm grade HGH by Eli Lilly....

So if it isn't made by a true pharm company then it isn't pharm grade...He's probably going to try to sell you generic gh...And the fact is, if it isn't pharm grade you don't know what you are getting....It could be good, could be underdosed, could be COMPLETELY fake...You have no idea what you are injecting into your body...

And pharm grade isn't anywhere NEAR generic gh, 3 iu's a day on pharm will kill most generic..

[MickeyKnox]

30 yr old male--177lbs--5''10---bf% hovers b/t 8-11% (7fold), Weight lifting: Powerlifting throughout high school @ 132lbs State Champ, collegiate years were all about fitness and endurance for triathelons. Participated in a human physio study at Kansas for plyometrics, And now I am a weekend warrior for extreme sports. I admit I focus more on core and the upper body these days b/c I no longer compete, but I hit it hard a minimum 4 days per wk---And I do some form of lifting 6 days per week.

Yesterday's diet, which is fairly monotenous was:
Home made blender special 2 per day
- 2 cups of oatmeal
- 2 cups of frozen berries
- 2 Tbsp of peanut butter
- 2 scoops of ON 100% whey
- 2 cups of water

Breakfast post workout 645ish
4 or 5 eggs sometimes it depends on what number is left in the carton!
1\2 cup oats
1 cup milk chocolate

pre lunch break
1 large chicken breast pre grilled and zip locked
1 cup of soy wasabi almonds
1 avacado---i just split it and put powdered lime juice on it
1 cup milk
2 cups brocolli/or sloppy steamed spinach

lunch break
sliced turkey/ chicken breast/ on a wheat/ spinach tortilla
1 can tuna have to choke this down---sometimes canned salmon
1/2 cup oats
1 tbs olive oil with a small amount of romaine and lemon juice
1 carton (small) of milk when i have it

around 5ish
2 cups brocolli and assorted veggies
1 can tuna
another avacado
1 cup milk


meal 5
at least 8 oz of lean pork or steak usually over a salad with lemon dressing/olive oil
1 cup milk
1 tbs olive oil

meal 6
any type of meat i can find--i grill in mass quantities and put it in zip locks
2 cups plain yogurt
1 can of tuna if i can choke it down.
another blender special.


Its a full time job to keep this up and sometimes i'll end up in a rut and stray here and there---eating out. My work fridge looks like a science experiment of zip locked bags. I don't find it easy to maintain, but doing the prep work is essential.

I dont buy any of it. No offense.

If i ate 6 meals and 2 solid shakes per day (almost 5k cals) i would explode into a 250+lb monster. The fact that you suggest that youre eating this every day yet your only 177lbs raises my eyebrow to heights not commonly known to man.

Im sorry, but something doesn't add up. Im no diet guru but these macros do not reflect your stats. What do you do for a living? Are you a triathlete who trains every day and competes every wknd?

According to your stats, your TDEE (LBMx15) is 2400. That mean youre consuming approx over 1500 cals above your maintenance...but you unable to gain weight?? Thanks but i'd rather buy a bridge.

Anyway, you seem intelligent so im confused as to why your information doesn't add up. But, this appears to be going a lot these days..

[warmouth]

I dont buy any of it. No offense.

If i ate 6 meals and 2 solid shakes per day (almost 5k cals) i would explode into a 250+lb monster. The fact that you suggest that youre eating this every day yet your only 177lbs raises my eyebrow to heights not commonly known to man.

Im sorry, but something doesn't add up. Im no diet guru but these macros do not reflect your stats. What do you do for a living? Are you a triathlete who trains every day and competes every wknd?

According to your stats, your TDEE (LBMx15) is 2400. That mean youre consuming approx over 1500 cals above your maintenance...but you unable to gain weight?? Thanks but i'd rather buy a bridge.

Anyway, you seem intelligent so im confused as to why your information doesn't add up. But, this appears to be going a lot these days..

Exactly my point! That is a ton of calories, and just 1300 less then the Bear! If you are eating 1500cals over maintenance, you should be much heavier(if youve been at this a while). And eating that much over could lead to the heaviness coming from fat, because the intensity it would take to use that many calories to your benefit would be a job in and of itself. I really think you should consider the nutrition section first and let those guys get the macros down pat for you, then see where you might be off. They are experts, for real!

[Synergy1]

I dont buy any of it. No offense.

If i ate 6 meals and 2 solid shakes per day (almost 5k cals) i would explode into a 250+lb monster. The fact that you suggest that youre eating this every day yet your only 177lbs raises my eyebrow to heights not
Im sorry, but something doesn't add up. Im no diet guru but these macros do not reflect your stats. What do you do for a living? Are you a triathlete who trains every day and competes every wknd?

According to your stats, your TDEE (LBMx15) is 2400. That mean youre consuming approx over 1500 cals above your maintenance...but you unable to gain weight?? Thanks but i'd rather buy a bridge.

Anyway, you seem intelligent so im confused as to why your information doesn't add up. But, this appears to be going a lot these days..

I'm coming here for advice for a reason! I have stopped tri training and most cardio bc I can't eat anymore. Now if I did go without any type of exercise I bet I could pack on ten more, but in exchange I don't believe I'd be able to force that amount of calories down. I run a sports therapy clinic for a living and am well versed on the human body. It should be as simple as calories in calories out.......but it's a struggle. That's why I tried to find a place where I can find solid advice on taking the next step. I have no background in this area but want to find a safe and effective way to increase my gains. I'm aware of the inherent risks but I love pushing my body to new limits. I'm not in the business of trying to convince anyone----I just want results. Thanks for taking the time to go over my numbers and if you have any additional suggestions, I'm all ears.

[warmouth]

I'm coming here for advice for a reason! I have stopped tri training and most cardio bc I can't eat anymore. Now if I did go without any type of exercise I bet I could pack on ten more, but in exchange I don't believe I'd be able to force that amount of calories down. I run a sports therapy clinic for a living and am well versed on the human body. It should be as simple as calories in calories out.......but it's a struggle. That's why I tried to find a place where I can find solid advice on taking the next step. I have no background in this area but want to find a safe and effective way to increase my gains. I'm aware of the inherent risks but I love pushing my body to new limits. I'm not in the business of trying to convince anyone----I just want results. Thanks for taking the time to go over my numbers and if you have any additional suggestions, I'm all ears.

You've came to the right place. What Mickey, and myself are trying to suggest to you is that you should post in the nutrition forum and get your eating controlled and scheduled. Calories in, calories out is sort of true, but it has to be the right calories, right time. For instance, you cant expect to eat 4 Big Mac meals a day and count that as hitting your macro goals, as that is a terrible balance and not a good macro split. I know you know this, it is just an example.

But GH isnt something you "cycle on, cycle" off like AAS. It is a long term luxury. For mass, you need quite a bit more. For everyday wear and tear, you still need more. But for lean gains, shape physique, no amout or any compound will get you anything without a properly balanced diet, that is suited to YOUR GOALS, and yours alone. One mans "perfect" diet might make the next one fat, or lose. It is all about getting what you put into it. AAS, GH, or any peptides are going to get you the results based on what you eat, how you train, and rest.

I am no expert on anyone, not even myself. But I do know for me, getting my diet and training down is what it took for me to excel towards my goal. I am still tinkering with my diet, as I find it fun and challenging. Just rememeber that AAS arent the workhorse of your end goal, but you are. They are just like a luxury item along the way. They are only there to assist you in reaching your end.

[Synergy1]

Hey man, I appreciate it. I'll head over there and take a good look.