after feedback on others who have run this cycle? results wise

Im going to run a test prop and clen cycle, i was going for gold and was so keen to hit up a tren e test 400 anadrol stack but was talked out of it by everyone i talked to... but where not here for that now i know it was a silly idea ha...

Im just after some feedback on fellow lifters who have run a similiar cycle, how often you like to inject and dosages in ml? ive got my diet sorted and im happy with it, im a fulltime bricklayer so i do have limited time to eat but im smashing the protein and eating clean..

hopefully you could take the time to give me some good advice because im all ears cheers!

21
85.6kg
18%
training for about a year so far, chest tri day, back bi day, leg day... core inbetween sets occasionally, and i will be climbing my local mountain after work everyday-ish..

It is a pretty bad idea to mess with strong compounds like Test Prop and Clen at your age.

I had 8 years of training under my belt when I was your age and I wasn't even using a single supplement, let alone steroids and metabolic accelerators.

You won't get advise on this board mate...

AGE
In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection/tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.



TRAINING
You need a few years of hard training under your belt before even considering taking any kind of anabolic support, people who jump on a cycle to soon without having some quality years under their belt usually results in injuries, it takes time to develop your connective tissue, tendons and nervous system to heavy overload training. Slowly getting your own system use to these kinds of extreme's will only help in muscle growth later on when you do decide to start taking AAS.

Build a solid foundation for muscle tissue to grow and maintaining and development will be far greater than without it. Many younger guys will start cycling before they have reached their genetic potential which is crazy when a good solid diet and training program will be far beneficial and productive to muscle building.

Workouts should be mainly focused on basic movements with a priority of over loading the muscle each and ever time you train, increasing your strength and ability to lift in proper form will help with building the foundation for future development


DIET
A lot of younger bodybuilders don't know how to eat. Researching and understanding how your own body responds will help you get to your natural limit, the right food at the right time and a full understanding of proteins,carbs, and fats will only help you succeed in achieving your natural goals. Keeping a diet diary will also help you understand the importance of macro, nutrients, calories and should help you see in which areas you could be going wrong in adding lean muscle tissue.

No matter how much anabolic support you have it will be worthless without proper nutrition, food will help build and maintain your valued muscle weather its natural, cycling or in PCT. Adjusting your food intake and consuming muscle building foods coupled with a solid training program will help you achieve your natural limit and foundation before you start AAS use.

This area is a huge problem with the younger guys and I can't express enough how important diet/food is when first starting out, post and pre training nutrition are very important and understanding how to load and feed the body will help push growth and create a very natural anabolic environment.

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

You will get some much needed diet advice though. With all due respect your diet is not sorted if you are 18%. There's more to it than 'smashing in' protein.

Please visit the nutrition section of this site.

Thanks for taking the time to write on here marcus300, i guess im just sheeping it at the moment.. allot of the boys i train with who are of the same age are starting and or finished there anabolic cycles.. i have a mate who ran a tren e and test cycle for his first and as far as he is concerned it was the best decision of his life, gains and confidents wise. allot of the adive i get from people who are all for it are my young mates, the blokes talking me out of it are the older wiser boys.. im going to be weighing up my options and wont be starting anything until i learn a bit more about a pct that works well for this kind of cycle.

As for my nutrition and bf% im well aware of how it is and where i want to be and im a long way from my goal.. im aiming for progress not perfection. at the age of 17/18 i was much shorter and weighed about 96 kilos and had no muscle mass what so ever. my boxing training helped cut that down and puberty also.. as for the year of training i just feel like taking it to the next level whether it be flipping my diet on its head or shoving a needle in my ass..


i may even just run a suitable clen cycle by itself mixed with intese cardio and a no carb diet to get leaner and to provide myself with a easier canvas to work with when i decide to bulk up... its all up in the air at the moment..

Ooh, didn't notice who you were until now.

Oh, and congrats from going from 13% to 18%. Bodyfat in only 6 days, you definitely got this diet down!

Good luck in the future, I think you may need it!

[quote ="hittinerves"]
21
85KG
171cm
14%
coming up to the year my strength has improved immensley over the course but i just want to start a cycle now to kickstart, get some mad gains to boost motivation. ill be running clen after cycle to i know im a fat ****-ish.
and cycle history, well this will be my first, i dont even count the sus 250 one i did about 2 months back, under prepared and had bugger all knowledge. i want to do this one right.[/quote]

Well noticed there SteM. He posted this just 6 days ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hittinerves

i may even just run a suitable clen cycle by itself mixed with intese cardio and a no carb diet to get leaner and to provide myself with a easier canvas to work with when i decide to bulk up

---

List side effects of Clen.

Hey marcus do you get sick and tired of taking your time to write up sick articles to only have the kid palm it off and say im using no matter what blah blah??

you're too young, you're too fat. yo don't have enough experience.
get to the gym, do cardio, do diet,get your BF to 12%, and meanwhile, take 1 year or more, to study roids.

if you can't get naturally to 12%BF, you're absolutely not ready