What in the hell?

**Ididit1119** · 02-01-2013, 10:50 AM

Hello everyone, I am in need of some answers. I have read for 2 days and well keep getting mixed answers. I recently started a cycle, my very first. I am injecting 1/2 cc, 2 times a week of test e 500 mg per ml. My first was last Sunday, into my right glute. Hours after pin, no pain what so ever, but the next day. Wow. I am a construction worker, up and down ladders all day, multiple flights if stairs, and well it had been 5 days and I still can't hardly sit on my ass. Wednesday was my 2nd into the left glute an well, day after same thing. I sure hope this isn't what I am looking forward to for the next 11 weeks. My wife is a RN, so j am sure she knows how to give a shot. The product I am using in within one of the top 10 in the source option. Should I be concerned, or just over reacting? I mean from reading, some says they have pain, some day they don't.

**Soar** · 02-01-2013, 11:04 AM

It sounds like you're experiencing normal post injection pain, the concentration of the test sounds very high... Most test e is 250mg/ml. It's a virgin muscle so it's going to hurt for the first few injections. Each one gets easier.

**c-Z** · 02-01-2013, 11:16 AM

The stronger the comcentration of the steroid usially the more it will hurt. You could try cutting it with sterile oil.

**Ididit1119** · 02-01-2013, 11:18 AM

Thanks man, I was wondering, my buddy who works out with me told me it was just that I had a virgin ass. Lol. I knew the gear was good, but just didn't know. Thanks a lot for the time and answers. I am sure I will have a bunch more.

**ChiveOn** · 02-01-2013, 11:27 AM

500mg/ml is a pretty strong concentration. The oil will most likely be absorbed before all of the test is, leaving some crystals behind. That's what will cause the pain. As you go you'll not only learn to love it, but it will become much less noticeable. Comes with the territory friend!

**fit2bOld** · 02-01-2013, 11:28 AM

Virgin muscle plus high concentration gear will do it...

**fit2bOld** · 02-01-2013, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by ChiveOn

500mg/ml is a pretty strong concentration. The oil will most likely be absorbed before all of the test is, leaving some crystals behind. That's what will cause the pain. As you go you'll not only learn to love it, but it will become much less noticeable. Comes with the territory friend!

Really chive do you have fact to back this up or is it just some bro science? If the gear was stable to begin with the idea of it crystalizing in your body is ridiculous.The pain is most likely from the amount of solvent used to keep it in solution.

**ChiveOn** · 02-01-2013, 11:52 AM

If I have free time to kill ill go back through several threads where this was mentioned by knowledgable members here. If I'm wrong, cool I have no problems with that. I'm new so what I know is what I take from members here. It was to my knowledge that oil was absorbed at a standard rate and at higher concentrations of test, obviously, there is less oil to test. Therefore leaving some test behind after the oil is absorbed. How is what I said wrong?

**xTato** · 02-01-2013, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by ChiveOn

500mg/ml is a pretty strong concentration. The oil will most likely be absorbed before all of the test is, leaving some crystals behind. That's what will cause the pain. As you go you'll not only learn to love it, but it will become much less noticeable. Comes with the territory friend!

Sounds more like meth then test.

**Ididit1119** · 02-01-2013, 12:03 PM

Thanks again guys! I thought maybe I was over reacting. All I know is it hurts like hell! Almost feels good! Now that I have a few of you saying what you did, I will be looking forward to Sundays pin!

**ChiveOn** · 02-01-2013, 12:05 PM

Concentration of active product. This is probably the most prevalent cause of post-injection pain experienced by anabolic steroid users. This is most likely due to the demand for underground laboratories to produce more concentrated steroid preparations (high mg/ml of hormone) to reduce number and volumes of injections. One good example of this is the production of testosterone propionate by many different labs. If we look at the preparation of testosterone propionate by legitimate pharmaceutical companies, we see that the maximum concentration normally produced is 50mg/ml. Despite this, most underground labs today will produce multi-use vials of testosterone propionate that are at a minimum of 100mg/ml. Hormones that contain short esters on them (like acetate, propionate, phenylpropionate) have a much higher melting point and thus cannot be made as concentrated as those with longer esters (enanthate , decanoate, etc). Although testosterone propionate can be effectively made in standard amounts of solvents and oil to 100mg/ml without crashing out of this solution, once injected in the body, the solvents tend to leach out of the solution very quickly, being absorbed much quicker than the oil. This leaves behind oil and hormone in the muscle, and at the higher concentrations (which rely on solvents to not crash in solution) this will result in some of the hormone crashing out of solution to give crystals. These crystals cause significant muscular discomfort, and also can result in the recruitment of lymphocytes involved in inflammation thus the area around the crystals can get inflamed with a build up of blood cells. This takes time to dissipate and longer for the crystals to be absorbed into the body, which is why this type of pain and discomfort usually lasts for several days.

Read more at: http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/art...tion-pain.aspx

**ChiveOn** · 02-01-2013, 12:10 PM

I can post several other articles if necessary. Not trying to be an ass but of I'm wrong I would like to know why I am, and why many scholarly articles back my point up. Along with several posts from knowledgable in the last week or two

**panntastic** · 02-01-2013, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by fit2bOld

Really chive do you have fact to back this up or is it just some bro science? If the gear was stable to begin with the idea of it crystalizing in your body is ridiculous.The pain is most likely from the amount of solvent used to keep it in solution.

Thank you
I'm fed up of this poor BS excuse of oil absorption before the ester.
As above the gear would need to be in a crashed state for crystals to be left without oil. Then you will know pain OP and its not pip pain it's debilitating pain.

**panntastic** · 02-01-2013, 12:26 PM

I disagree with the quoted article.

If the high mg/ml is held in a stable solution for some time there is no reason why it would then "crash" when introduced into the muscle.
There's no mention of ester cleaving for absorption.
High BA is 1 cause of pip without a doubt
Inject yourself with 1ml BA (10%) and tell me that sh1t don't hurt!
If the brew is made properly
Filtered properly
Autoclaved properly
It should not hurt

**ChiveOn** · 02-01-2013, 12:41 PM

Hard to argue with the brew master haha. The sole purpose of being on this forum is to learn, but many members hold contrasting opinions and everyone and their mother has a source for each opinion. Hard to differentiate fact from fiction... So, now, I am to believe that you hold the true correct opinion?

**panntastic** · 02-01-2013, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by ChiveOn

Hard to argue with the brew master haha. The sole purpose of being on this forum is to learn, but many members hold contrasting opinions and everyone and their mother has a source for each opinion. Hard to differentiate fact from fiction... So, now, I am to believe that you hold the true correct opinion?

I'm just going by what I know and to have crystals and no oil in the skin as I do know is excruciating and near enough debilitating.
If the oil is clear going in the absorption will be fine if its crashed going before going in or if it repeatedly crashes within hours of re heating its best chuck it or add solvent as the pain it will cause really isn't worth it.
Take from this what to will.
But the link you posted In my eyes holds no credible fact

**JayIsPumped** · 02-01-2013, 01:01 PM

try cutting it with grape seed oil or liquid b12...had same prob with test e 350

**panntastic** · 02-01-2013, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by JayIsPumped

try cutting it with grape seed oil or liquid b12...had same prob with test e 350

And filter again right?

**fit2bOld** · 02-01-2013, 01:27 PM

Be sure to cut it with sterile oils, last thing you want to do contaminate it.

**ma_fighter** · 02-01-2013, 01:33 PM

Dilute, filter and autoclave if possible. That'll help with the pain

**Ididit1119** · 02-01-2013, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by ma_fighter

Dilute, filter and autoclave if possible. That'll help with the pain

Come on guys, I am new here, can you explain more in detail? How much oil, how to filter, autoclave?

**ma_fighter** · 02-01-2013, 03:41 PM

Check out the homebrew section, lots of good info there.
But I'd add as much oil as there already are in the vials, thus cutting the concentration in half.

Filtering is done with a .20 micron syringe filter, this is so you get rid of all nasty spores, bacteria and viruses (well, most of em)
An autoclave is essentially a preassurecooker, and is NEEDED to sterilize your gear.

But this is all in the homebrewing section, check it out

**MuttonChop** · 02-01-2013, 04:14 PM

I actually kinda miss the post injection pain. After a quad shot, every step was painful. But every step also reminded me I was on gear and this kept me motivated all day long to eat like a mofo.

Believe it or not, the pain from the needles gets addicting after a while...

**swm1972** · 02-01-2013, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by fit2bOld

Really chive do you have fact to back this up or is it just some bro science? If the gear was stable to begin with the idea of it crystalizing in your body is ridiculous.The pain is most likely from the amount of solvent used to keep it in solution.

Actually, he is right on the money. Testosterone absorbs at a fairly consistent rate. So does the oil it's suspended in. There is a reason pharmaceutical companies make this stuff at 200/ml (test cyp) or 250/ml (test enth). It isn't some random number. It is designed so the carrier oil remains until the hormone has completely absorbed. When you get a half a gram of powder suspended in a single ml, the oil will absorb faster then the hormone unless you use something like EO. EO is a much slower absorbing oil. So much so that I have aspirated in a spot I hadn't shot in 10 days and pulled out EO. I personally won't use EO based gear for this reason. But this is exactly why EO based gear can go higher into the concentration ranges and not be painful. Personally I would just rather deal with the injection volume associated with standard dosed gear.

**swm1972** · 02-01-2013, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by panntastic

I'm just going by what I know and to have crystals and no oil in the skin as I do know is excruciating and near enough debilitating.
If the oil is clear going in the absorption will be fine if its crashed going before going in or if it repeatedly crashes within hours of re heating its best chuck it or add solvent as the pain it will cause really isn't worth it.
Take from this what to will.
But the link you posted In my eyes holds no credible fact

My compounding pharmacy said pretty much the exact same thing.

**panntastic** · 02-01-2013, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by swm1972

Actually, he is right on the money. Testosterone absorbs at a fairly consistent rate. So does the oil it's suspended in. There is a reason pharmaceutical companies make this stuff at 200/ml (test cyp) or 250/ml (test enth). It isn't some random number. It is designed so the carrier oil remains until the hormone has completely absorbed. When you get a half a gram of powder suspended in a single ml, the oil will absorb faster then the hormone unless you use something like EO. EO is a much slower absorbing oil. So much so that I have aspirated in a spot I hadn't shot in 10 days and pulled out EO. I personally won't use EO based gear for this reason. But this is exactly why EO based gear can go higher into the concentration ranges and not be painful. Personally I would just rather deal with the injection volume associated with standard dosed gear.

EO is not an oil is an ester itself formed from oleic acid and ethanol.
It is also found naturally In the human body.
I highly doubt you aspirated eo 10 days after administration infact I call BS on that!
What volume did you inject 10 days prior to this happening?

**c-Z** · 02-01-2013, 06:50 PM

Virgin muscle definitely is a big factor in the pain. As stated best bet is to cut with sterile oil and hopefully that will kill some of the pain. No matter what though it still willhave a bit of a bitw due to virgin muscle

**c-Z** · 02-01-2013, 06:51 PM

Different people react differently to eo. I know myself eo gear never seems to settle right.

**Ididit1119** · 02-01-2013, 07:00 PM

Thank each of you, question, if I cut will oil, won't it also drop the mg per ml? Will I still do half cc 2 times week?

**The Bear 79** · 02-01-2013, 07:05 PM

If you add oil to your gear, it will change the mg/ml.

How is your gear dosed now & how much oil are you planning in adding?

**ma_fighter** · 02-01-2013, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by ma_fighter

Check out the homebrew section, lots of good info there.
But I'd add as much oil as there already are in the vials, thus cutting the concentration in half.

Filtering is done with a .20 micron syringe filter, this is so you get rid of all nasty spores, bacteria and viruses (well, most of em)
An autoclave is essentially a preassurecooker, and is NEEDED to sterilize your gear.

But this is all in the homebrewing section, check it out

bold part

**Ididit1119** · 02-01-2013, 09:29 PM

Don't know what you really meaner by 'closed' look guys, I am taking it upon myself to stop this. I know some of you arc thinking f'k'n punk. But guys, I did my first pin Sunday and well tonight after I got out the shower, I have an egg shape under my skin. 5 days later, wow. I have talked to a few that has cycled, and they said soreness, maybe 2 days. I am gonna do my homework on here. Buy I can't take this. I can't even sit down. Maybe I need a diff mg per ml.

**Ididit1119** · 02-01-2013, 09:33 PM

Sorry for the misspelling.

**c-Z** · 02-01-2013, 10:35 PM

If you have a 10ml vial. Simply make it 10ml gear 10ml sterile oil and double what you are pinning now. You will have 20ml total. So say the dose is 300mg a ml. 2ml will now be 300mg ml. Because u are adding sterile oil to it. Basically for every 1cc add a cc sterile.oil. double dose. Hope thats not to confusing. Driving to the gym. Lol

**c-Z** · 02-01-2013, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

If you add oil to your gear, it will change the mg/ml.

How is your gear dosed now & how much oil are you planning in adding?

What he said and we can give you a clearer understanding

**swm1972** · 02-02-2013, 08:01 AM

Edit

**fit2bOld** · 02-02-2013, 08:22 AM

Comes down to this be sure you have quaily stable gear so you don't have garbage crashing in your body. Like I said if it is quality stable gear the possibility of it crashing internally is small.

**panntastic** · 02-02-2013, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by swm1972

3 ml. I had been hitting that spot every 10-14 days for several weeks with a EO blend. EO isn't an ester, you don't know near as much as you think you do. It is a chemical solvent. An ester is composed of carbon atoms in a chain that are cleaved off to slow the release of a parent compound. And I don't much care if you believe I pulled EO when aspirating.

"Ethyl oleate is a fatty acid ester formed by the condensation of oleic acid and ethanol. It is a colorless to light yellow liquid."
That's wiki cut and paste

So smart guy your understanding is not to great.
You constantly talk crap advise the young to take steroids and argue on subjects you clearly know zero about

You have no knowledge to the make up of steroids in a solution of oil and clearly don't know how they work

**panntastic** · 02-02-2013, 08:33 AM

Yes eo I used as a solvent I do agree but you need to know the make up of it before you comment on it.

Your poor reply about suspension and adding an ester is a joke as are you

**Ididit1119** · 02-02-2013, 09:59 AM

Right now my gear is showing 500 mg/ml. Super thick, clear as anything, 10ml vial. I have taken 2 pins, one last Sunday, right glute, one Wednesday, left glute. 1/2 cc each. Now this grape seed oil, is something I have to order, and I looked for home brew section, didn't see section. Woke up this morning, knot gone. Should I just maybe drop to 1/4 cc and see if that helps, I'm new guys, that's for your patients.