How safe is T3 really??

**>Acute<** · 02-09-2013, 04:39 PM

Do you agree with this statement:

"I think we can safely spend an athletic career using Cytomel 9-10 months out of the year, and just taking those few months off to normalize ourselves. Is this aggressive? Yes. Is this unsafe? NO."

Quote from http://www.steroid.com/Cytomel.php

Why or why not?

**>Acute<** · 02-09-2013, 04:47 PM

In the same article it emphasizes the importance of running AAS along with T3.. so I would assume this also translates to "we can safely run a 9 - 10 month AAS cycle each year"

What kind of recommendation is this? Can someone put it into context?

**BBJT200** · 02-09-2013, 05:05 PM

I don't see it translating to 'we can safely run 9-10 month aas per year.
T3 itself is safe for that time period.

HOWEVER, you should run aas with it to minimize muscle loss.
so basically, it's safe to run the t3 like that, but expect some muscle loss if you're not *abusing* AAS.

**austinite** · 02-09-2013, 07:16 PM

Incredibly safe. You can run it for 20 years for that matter.

**Granovich** · 02-09-2013, 07:23 PM

yeah its safe, but cause muscle loss so its better to take it with AAS
infact in some cycles its advised to take T3, like the ones include tren

**ppwc1985** · 02-09-2013, 07:37 PM

I just started my t3 with clen and while researching it came across an article from I think it was ar-r that said that the clen counteracts the catalytic effects of t3. I was wondering about that. Any thoughts, last time I used t3 I was on cycle.

**t-dogg** · 02-09-2013, 08:06 PM

Its safe.

ppwc, did you start t3 with clen right now? Without gear? How did you do?

**ppwc1985** · 02-09-2013, 08:14 PM

I started clen 1.5 week ago, I just started my t3 today. 25 mcg split into two doses and working my wAy up to 125 mcg a day. Doing 21 day cycle.

**t-dogg** · 02-09-2013, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by ppwc1985

I started clen 1.5 week ago, I just started my t3 today. 25 mcg split into two doses and working my wAy up to 125 mcg a day. Doing 21 day cycle.

Please keep a log and lmk. Body weight, BF% now. Then the same after cycle. This is with out gear correct?

**ppwc1985** · 02-09-2013, 08:19 PM

Yes not on cycle just hope I don't lose much lbm.

**t-dogg** · 02-09-2013, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by ppwc1985

Yes not on cycle just hope I don't lose much lbm.

Like I said, keep a log. Ill PM, you or you can Pm me. Very interested.

**ppwc1985** · 02-09-2013, 08:46 PM

Ok will do, ill let you know on the 28 that's my end date.

**Metalject** · 02-09-2013, 08:59 PM

Used it heavily for nearly a decade, no thyroid issues of any kind. I also don't know anyone who's ever had a real issue and know plenty of people who have used a butt load of it.

**>Acute<** · 02-09-2013, 09:00 PM

So I guess from now on I'm gonna use test/ t3 on every cycle I run.

I've read some discussions about low dose benefits of t3 on a bulk for metabolism, nutrient utilization and protein synthesis. It's incredibly cheap given all these benefits.

**t-dogg** · 02-09-2013, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

Used it heavily for nearly a decade, no thyroid issues of any kind. I also don't know anyone who's ever had a real issue and know plenty of people who have used a butt load of it.

Im really interested in how much/If any muscle you will lose without gear. Like clen /t3 only.

**>Acute<** · 02-09-2013, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by ppwc1985

Yes not on cycle just hope I don't lose much lbm.

At the end of the day, it's about the size of your caloric deficit.

T3/ clen are just others routes to reach a greater deficit without having to restrict your food intake too much.

I look at them as cardio minus the effort.

**Metalject** · 02-09-2013, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by t-dogg

Im really interested in how much/If any muscle you will lose without gear. Like clen/t3 only.

I don't know but I would imagine it would be significant. I've never used T3 without AAS.

**Atomini** · 02-10-2013, 04:43 AM

Clenbuterol is nowhere near anabolic enough to stave off catabolism from T3 use. Anabolic steroids are required for that, and is also dependent on dose of T3, personal individual genetic response, and caloric deficit. Here is some information I commonly post in regards to T3 that should prove informative and helpful:

Here are also some additional clarifications about T3 because T3 is one of those compounds with a lot of mysticism, rumor, and lies surrounding it:

- It is unnecessary to ramp up or down your T3 dose. I don't do it and never have. Only reason why some people ramp up is to get used to the increasing heat output, and gauge any possible muscle loss through slow increases in dose, etc. but if you can deal with this and know your effective dose, its no problem to immediately start at the full dose.

- T3 can be run for as long as you want without risking damage to your thyroid (contrary to the stupid myth that has been circulating for over 2 decades now).

- T3 possesses a half-life of 2.5 days. It is unnecessary to split up T3 doses throughout the day. Take it all at once in the morning and then forget about it.

- Ketotifen use is only for beta-2 agonists such as Clenbuterol and Albuterol. It will do nothing and has nothing to do with T3.

- Ignore everything you've ever heard or read about the stupid lie/rumor about how T3 use will fvck your thyroid up. NO IT DOESN'T. Your thyroid gland operates just like any other endocrine gland in the body. In fact, the thyroid is actually probably the stupidest endocrine gland in the body. It takes SO long for it to catch on to what's going on before it starts to reduce its output. One study was conducted in which several patients who were on T3 for THIRTY YEARS were promptly taken off of it, because they were MISDIAGNOSED(!!!) as being hypothyroid 30 years ago when they really weren't. Cessation of exogenous T3 resulted in every test subject's thyroid output return to normal levels within 3 months or something. And remember, this is people on it for half a lifetime. Several weeks of use in the bodybuilding world would have very little effect.

- The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable. After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal. Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal(1).

- At doses any higher than 50mcg daily, it must be utilized with anabolic steroids in order to preserve muscle mass. T3 is a very potent metabolism stimulator and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat when it comes to what is utilized as fuel. Therefore, at higher doses, AAS is required to promote nitrogen retention in the muscle.

- When utilized with AAS, T3 can actually be very good for bulking as well, considering the fact that T3 will speed up the metabolism and allow more nutrients to be utilized for muscle anabolism. How much to use depends on the caloric intake of the user and goals.

- EXCESSIVE DOSES OF AAS ARE NOT NECESSARY TO STAVE OFF MUSCLE CATABOLISM FROM T3!!!! There is no need to be running a combined 1,000mg of gear with T3. 300mg weekly of Testosterone ONLY is enough to ward off muscle catabolism. 100mg Testosterone with 200mg Trenbolone weekly is just perfect. High doses of gear IS UNNECESSARY with T3 if the idea is to simply avoid the loss of muscle while on T3 for fat loss purposes.

- T3 is not a stimulant and therefore imparts no stimulant-like effects. Some individuals explain of increased heart rate on T3, and at particularly higher doses, heart palpitations. Note that this is because T3 plays a role in regulating heart rate, and this is not due to any particular stimulant effects.

I hope this post helps you and anyone else out here about T3, its facts, myths, and proper use. I hope this has answered most people's common questions about T3.

REFERENCES:
1. Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH. N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4

**t-dogg** · 02-10-2013, 07:38 AM

I wonder how 50mcg's would do with clen /al only. I know the body makes like 25mcgs a day.

**>Acute<** · 02-10-2013, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Atomini

Clenbuterol is nowhere near anabolic enough to stave off catabolism from T3 use. Anabolic steroids are required for that, and is also dependent on dose of T3, personal individual genetic response, and caloric deficit. Here is some information I commonly post in regards to T3 that should prove informative and helpful:

Here are also some additional clarifications about T3 because T3 is one of those compounds with a lot of mysticism, rumor, and lies surrounding it:

- It is unnecessary to ramp up or down your T3 dose. I don't do it and never have. Only reason why some people ramp up is to get used to the increasing heat output, and gauge any possible muscle loss through slow increases in dose, etc. but if you can deal with this and know your effective dose, its no problem to immediately start at the full dose.

- T3 can be run for as long as you want without risking damage to your thyroid (contrary to the stupid myth that has been circulating for over 2 decades now).

- T3 possesses a half-life of 2.5 days. It is unnecessary to split up T3 doses throughout the day. Take it all at once in the morning and then forget about it.

- Ketotifen use is only for beta-2 agonists such as Clenbuterol and Albuterol. It will do nothing and has nothing to do with T3.

- Ignore everything you've ever heard or read about the stupid lie/rumor about how T3 use will fvck your thyroid up. NO IT DOESN'T. Your thyroid gland operates just like any other endocrine gland in the body. In fact, the thyroid is actually probably the stupidest endocrine gland in the body. It takes SO long for it to catch on to what's going on before it starts to reduce its output. One study was conducted in which several patients who were on T3 for THIRTY YEARS were promptly taken off of it, because they were MISDIAGNOSED(!!!) as being hypothyroid 30 years ago when they really weren't. Cessation of exogenous T3 resulted in every test subject's thyroid output return to normal levels within 3 months or something. And remember, this is people on it for half a lifetime. Several weeks of use in the bodybuilding world would have very little effect.

- The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable. After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal. Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal(1).

- At doses any higher than 50mcg daily, it must be utilized with anabolic steroids in order to preserve muscle mass. T3 is a very potent metabolism stimulator and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat when it comes to what is utilized as fuel. Therefore, at higher doses, AAS is required to promote nitrogen retention in the muscle.

- When utilized with AAS, T3 can actually be very good for bulking as well, considering the fact that T3 will speed up the metabolism and allow more nutrients to be utilized for muscle anabolism. How much to use depends on the caloric intake of the user and goals.

- EXCESSIVE DOSES OF AAS ARE NOT NECESSARY TO STAVE OFF MUSCLE CATABOLISM FROM T3!!!! There is no need to be running a combined 1,000mg of gear with T3. 300mg weekly of Testosterone ONLY is enough to ward off muscle catabolism. 100mg Testosterone with 200mg Trenbolone weekly is just perfect. High doses of gear IS UNNECESSARY with T3 if the idea is to simply avoid the loss of muscle while on T3 for fat loss purposes.

- T3 is not a stimulant and therefore imparts no stimulant-like effects. Some individuals explain of increased heart rate on T3, and at particularly higher doses, heart palpitations. Note that this is because T3 plays a role in regulating heart rate, and this is not due to any particular stimulant effects.

I hope this post helps you and anyone else out here about T3, its facts, myths, and proper use. I hope this has answered most people's common questions about T3.

REFERENCES:
1. Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH. N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4

What would you say is a good T3 dose for a 200lb male for dieting?

**austinite** · 02-10-2013, 11:36 AM

I'm running it steadily now at 140mcg for the past 2 months.

**Tron3219** · 02-10-2013, 11:37 AM

Aust...results? I'm bout to pick some up for the foray time

-TroN-

**BBJT200** · 02-10-2013, 12:12 PM

I've never gone past 100. I'd be interested to see the results from 140!

**austinite** · 02-10-2013, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Tron3219

Aust...results? I'm bout to pick some up for the foray time

-TroN-

Results are incredible. I use it for bulking cycles. I can eat like an animal and keep my waist small. I've shed 2% BF in less than 30 days on T3 when not bulking. But the fact is, my body seems to love T3. My results may not be typical.

**bp2000** · 02-10-2013, 01:21 PM

Ive read that muscle loss can be a problem on T3 the first two weeks but after that seems to normalize.

**austinite** · 02-10-2013, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by bp2000

Ive read that muscle loss can be a problem on T3 the first two weeks but after that seems to normalize.

Not true at all.

**bp2000** · 02-10-2013, 01:42 PM

Should have put that was at 50mcg or less from a medical study not for bodybuilding. You have any problems with muscle loss whilst cutting using T3?

**austinite** · 02-10-2013, 01:44 PM

Less than 50 would be kind of silly. That's about how much you produce naturally. 20 to 30 or so.

Anyway, 250 to 300mg of test is more than plenty to stave off any muscle loss.

**likelifting** · 02-10-2013, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

Results are incredible. I use it for bulking cycles. I can eat like an animal and keep my waist small. I've shed 2% BF in less than 30 days on T3 when not bulking. But the fact is, my body seems to love T3. My results may not be typical.

Do you know what your TSH levels were before you started? Thanks. Wondering cuz mine were 1.1??? I can't remember now have it written down somewhere but think it was KelKel thought it might not work that well for me. Just wondering Aust. thx.

**austinite** · 02-10-2013, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by likelifting

Do you know what your TSH levels were before you started? Thanks. Wondering cuz mine were 1.1??? I can't remember now have it written down somewhere but think it was KelKel thought it might not work that well for me. Just wondering Aust. thx.

1.61 mIU/L

Highest Ive ever been was 3

**likelifting** · 02-10-2013, 01:59 PM

If you are getting good results at 1.61 than I should be fine also. I'm assuming the higher the number the more effective T3 is? T3 lowers TSH levels or artificially the number would drop?

I started about 3 doses and stopped cuz I decided to end this cycle not wanting to run without AAS. About to start PCT. I'm going to try it again and still gathering info and doing my research on it. Thanks for the help.

**bp2000** · 02-10-2013, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by likelifting

Do you know what your TSH levels were before you started? Thanks. Wondering cuz mine were 1.1??? I can't remember now have it written down somewhere but think it was KelKel thought it might not work that well for me. Just wondering Aust. thx.

Some ppl that have sluggish thyroid will have normal TSH levels. A better way to measure thyroid is by measuring free T3 and free t4 along with noting symptoms of low thyroid.

**BBJT200** · 02-10-2013, 04:03 PM

I've noticed a direct correlation between a t3 dose above 90mcg and

---dramatically increased ADHD symptoms
---dramatically increased hunger.
---extreme lethargy and moodiness

The combination of the above leads to binge eating....it's fvcking awful.

I was just brutally reminded why I don't go above 65-70..

**nvrtd** · 02-10-2013, 04:57 PM

say you just started taking 100mcg daily of t3, how long would you except for the t3 to actually start working?
short ester steroids are usually around the 2 week mark, long esters are 3-4. what would t3 be?

**Atomini** · 02-10-2013, 05:23 PM

T3 should take effect IMMEDIATELY. There is no kick in period what so ever, despite what many misinformed people might say.

This is evidenced by the rise in body temperature you should experience the same day you start it.

**nvrtd** · 02-10-2013, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Atomini

T3 should take effect IMMEDIATELY. There is no kick in period what so ever, despite what many misinformed people might say.

This is evidenced by the rise in body temperature you should experience the same day you start it.

thanks, yeah i have heard from a few people i know there is a time before it kicks in, but thanks for clearing that up

**likelifting** · 02-10-2013, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by bp2000

Some ppl that have sluggish thyroid will have normal TSH levels. A better way to measure thyroid is by measuring free T3 and free t4 along with noting symptoms of low thyroid.

Thanks for that. I appreciate the info.

**Atomini** · 02-10-2013, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by nvrtd

thanks, yeah i have heard from a few people i know there is a time before it kicks in, but thanks for clearing that up

People who say it takes time for T3 to kick-in are too impatient. It does take time to eventually visually see the fat loss, especially if you have started off at a higher bodyfat percentage. Nothing strips all your fat off in one day...

People need to stop being so impatient. T3 gets to work immediately (so do all anabolic steroids ). The difference is that muscle growth is a slow steady process, even accellerated with supraphysiological hormone levels. The difference is tha T3's notable effects of fat metabolism (the increase in body temperature as a result of basal metabolic rate increases) are visible immediately, but the actual visible body composition changes take longer before they become noticed. Anabolic steroids ' observable effects (strength increases) take a little longer to manifest, and there are no immediate indications that anabolic steroids are operating, unlike T3's body heat increases. Some say that the increase in libido can be felt almost immediately though.

But I am just trying to get you to understand the difference between you OBSERVING/NOTICING something (gradual) and the time it takes for something to actually get to work (immediate). Anabolic steroids actually "kick in" IMMEDIATELY, but the common use of the phrase "kick in" as it is used around here and among anabolic steroid users actually refers to the time it takes to notice observable changes.

**ppwc1985** · 02-10-2013, 08:33 PM

Thanks atomini for the info I was going up slow im gonna jump on 120 tommorow.

**Metalject** · 02-10-2013, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Atomini

Clenbuterol is nowhere near anabolic enough to stave off catabolism from T3 use. Anabolic steroids are required for that, and is also dependent on dose of T3, personal individual genetic response, and caloric deficit. Here is some information I commonly post in regards to T3 that should prove informative and helpful:

Here are also some additional clarifications about T3 because T3 is one of those compounds with a lot of mysticism, rumor, and lies surrounding it:

- It is unnecessary to ramp up or down your T3 dose. I don't do it and never have. Only reason why some people ramp up is to get used to the increasing heat output, and gauge any possible muscle loss through slow increases in dose, etc. but if you can deal with this and know your effective dose, its no problem to immediately start at the full dose.

- T3 can be run for as long as you want without risking damage to your thyroid (contrary to the stupid myth that has been circulating for over 2 decades now).

- T3 possesses a half-life of 2.5 days. It is unnecessary to split up T3 doses throughout the day. Take it all at once in the morning and then forget about it.

- Ketotifen use is only for beta-2 agonists such as Clenbuterol and Albuterol. It will do nothing and has nothing to do with T3.

- Ignore everything you've ever heard or read about the stupid lie/rumor about how T3 use will fvck your thyroid up. NO IT DOESN'T. Your thyroid gland operates just like any other endocrine gland in the body. In fact, the thyroid is actually probably the stupidest endocrine gland in the body. It takes SO long for it to catch on to what's going on before it starts to reduce its output. One study was conducted in which several patients who were on T3 for THIRTY YEARS were promptly taken off of it, because they were MISDIAGNOSED(!!!) as being hypothyroid 30 years ago when they really weren't. Cessation of exogenous T3 resulted in every test subject's thyroid output return to normal levels within 3 months or something. And remember, this is people on it for half a lifetime. Several weeks of use in the bodybuilding world would have very little effect.

- The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable. After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal. Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal(1).

- At doses any higher than 50mcg daily, it must be utilized with anabolic steroids in order to preserve muscle mass. T3 is a very potent metabolism stimulator and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat when it comes to what is utilized as fuel. Therefore, at higher doses, AAS is required to promote nitrogen retention in the muscle.

- When utilized with AAS, T3 can actually be very good for bulking as well, considering the fact that T3 will speed up the metabolism and allow more nutrients to be utilized for muscle anabolism. How much to use depends on the caloric intake of the user and goals.

- EXCESSIVE DOSES OF AAS ARE NOT NECESSARY TO STAVE OFF MUSCLE CATABOLISM FROM T3!!!! There is no need to be running a combined 1,000mg of gear with T3. 300mg weekly of Testosterone ONLY is enough to ward off muscle catabolism. 100mg Testosterone with 200mg Trenbolone weekly is just perfect. High doses of gear IS UNNECESSARY with T3 if the idea is to simply avoid the loss of muscle while on T3 for fat loss purposes.

- T3 is not a stimulant and therefore imparts no stimulant-like effects. Some individuals explain of increased heart rate on T3, and at particularly higher doses, heart palpitations. Note that this is because T3 plays a role in regulating heart rate, and this is not due to any particular stimulant effects.

I hope this post helps you and anyone else out here about T3, its facts, myths, and proper use. I hope this has answered most people's common questions about T3.

REFERENCES:
1. Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH. N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4

Good post man, really good.

The only thing I really have a comment on is the ramping down issue. I agree, there's no need to ramp down for most people. However, take a guy coming off a hard contest diet, I think dropping down to a low dose of T3 for a couple weeks after the diet can be very helpful when you start introducing regular or normal eating again.