Thoughts on deca in first cycle

**sixfootseven** · 02-13-2013, 04:08 PM

I know it's not advised but hear me out.

I had surgery on my patellar tendon last week and its six month recovery. If it doesn't work I'm done playing basketball. I'm 26 but I play ball for NAIA school on scholarship.

I'm running peptides now and plan to run a basic test e cycle in 8 weeks to help w rehab and atrophied muscle in my quad.

I'm contemplating running a low dose of deca to help w healing (collagen synth) and overall joint wellness. I know it's not advised, but I think it could help w my needs.

**The Bear 79** · 02-13-2013, 04:36 PM

Steroids should not be on your list of considerations when trying to recover from tendon surgery, AAS force rapid growth of muscle tissue which can put undue stress on tendons & ligaments. Not exactly conducive to the healing process, in short, you may end up fvcking yourself up worse.

**sixfootseven** · 02-13-2013, 04:49 PM

I understand. Maybe i was given a bad idea by my orthopedist who said it could help my recovery. I see him again monday so i will talk it over w him.

**Bio-Active** · 02-13-2013, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

Steroids should not be on your list of considerations when trying to recover from tendon surgery, AAS force rapid growth of muscle tissue which can put undue stress on tendons & ligaments. Not exactly conducing to the healing process, in short, you may end up fvcking yourself up worse.

^^^ exactly you need to focus on recovering bro

**sixfootseven** · 02-13-2013, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

^^^ exactly you need to focus on recovering bro

I know. Im not planning to do heavy workouts w my legs, just normal rehab to strengthen and get back some atrophied muscle.

**The Bear 79** · 02-13-2013, 04:56 PM

See if you can get MI's attention, he can explain the risk / reward a bit more in depth.

**sixfootseven** · 02-13-2013, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

See if you can get MI's attention, he can explain the risk / reward a bit more in depth.

I''l send him a pm. I have come across some research stating that aas may enhance tendon healing, and has been proven to do so in bio-engineered human tendons. Also tendons treated with aas were stronger than ones that were not.

steroids are known to build muscle mass and boost strength, so Karas and his colleagues set out to see whether steroids might improve rotator cuff healing. The research involved bioengineered tendons developed by co-author Dr. Albert J. Banes. The researchers collected tendon samples from six people who were having rotator cuff surgery. Cells from these tendons were isolated and used to grow the bioengineered tendons.

Some of these tendons were treated with the anabolic steroid nandrolone decanoate, while others were not. Some tendons were also subjected to load testing, in which the tendons were stretched. Tendons that had been treated with steroids and subjected to loading were stronger, denser and more elastic than other tendons, the researchers report in the American Journal of Sports Medicine. The steroid-treated tendons also had a more natural appearance than other tendons.

**Bio-Active** · 02-13-2013, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by sixfootseven

I''l send him a pm. I have come across some research stating that aas may enhance tendon healing, and has been proven to do so in bio-engineered human tendons. Also tendons treated with aas were stronger than ones that were not.

Deca is known to help joint paint because of the water retention but everything I have seen is that's its temporary. Once the drug is discontinued the joint pain comes back.

**The Bear 79** · 02-13-2013, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by sixfootseven

I''l send him a pm. I have come across some research stating that aas may enhance tendon healing, and has been proven to do so in bio-engineered human tendons. Also tendons treated with aas were stronger than ones that were not.

Do you have a study to reference? I am interested in this.

**Bio-Active** · 02-13-2013, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

Do you have a study to reference? I am interested in this.

Me too?

**sixfootseven** · 02-13-2013, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

Do you have a study to reference? I am interested in this.

i copy and pasted this, though its not from a peer reviewed journal article.

heres the link: http://www.paktribune.com/news/print.php?id=183128

and here is info from peer a reviewed article :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15150040

**m_donnelly** · 02-13-2013, 06:02 PM

I would be concerned about the tendon stress as I have seen some guys tear themselves up running gear. But I LOVE deca because of it's therapeutic effects on the joints. It reduced joint pain for me considerably.

**MuscleInk** · 02-13-2013, 06:25 PM

Well, you probably couldn't have picked a more controversial topic!!!!

If you search the literature, you'll find evidence to support either position (i.e. it helps or it doesn't).

The majority of studies suggest that any anabolic, including Deca, inhibits tendon/ligament repair, reduces elasticity, increases fibroblastic cellular reaction, and causes inflammation. A problem with some of these studies is they are based on rotator cuff injuries and injections are given in the deltoid region, which will of course cause an inflammatory reaction near the site of injury due to the injection itself.

There are a few limited studies that show AAS, specifically deca, will help with cytoskeletal remodeling and repair, BUT (and this is a big but in my mind), these studies are EX VIVO studies in artificially engineered tendons and NOT performed in a natural human model.

My personal opinion and experience....Deca or esters that promote slightly more water retention MAY help with recovery BUT during recovery it is absolutely essential to avoid any load bearing resistant exercise on these areas, or as Bear79 said, the risk of greater injury is significantly higher.

Finally, remember that tendons/ligaments are poorly vascularized and by that nature, require much more time to recover and properly heal - often several months.

**sixfootseven** · 02-13-2013, 06:30 PM

So basically its a huge gamble? lol

its a 6 month recovery back to full activity. So i am thinking to wait until around the 3 month mark and then run the aas through rehab. Again its only what im thinking its not set in stone.

thnx MI

**MartyMcFly** · 02-13-2013, 06:34 PM

I've had patellar tendon surgery. It sucks balls. I lost 60 lbs. never been the same since but I wasn't trying to rehab for sports. Good luck with your recovery. Hope the best.

**MuscleInk** · 02-13-2013, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by sixfootseven

So basically its a huge gamble? lol

its a 6 month recovery back to full activity. So i am thinking to wait until around the 3 month mark and then run the aas through rehab. Again its only what im thinking its not set in stone.

thnx MI

I've seen rapid recovery from muscle injury with GH and AAS but tendons pose a greater challenge. Best to avoid resistance and load bearing exercise for first three months. Give it a chance to heal. I know its frustrating, believe me I've been there too many times - I'm nursing a strained groin right now from pushing my squats too far and it's pissing me off.

3-6 months won't seem as bad compared to a year plus for a more serious injury.

Good luck on your speedy recovery.

**sixfootseven** · 02-13-2013, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by MartyMcFly

I've had patellar tendon surgery. It sucks balls. I lost 60 lbs. never been the same since but I wasn't trying to rehab for sports. Good luck with your recovery. Hope the best.

yeah luckily mine wasnt completely ruptured just partially torn, they took out a small amount of it.

what was your injury?

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

I've seen rapid recovery from muscle injury with GH and AAS but tendons pose a greater challenge. Best to avoid resistance and load bearing exercise for first three months. Give it a chance to heal. I know its frustrating, believe me I've been there too many times - I'm nursing a strained groin right now from pushing my squats too far and it's pissing me off.

3-6 months won't seem as bad compared to a year plus for a more serious injury.

Good luck on your speedy recovery.

definitely will stay away from that stuff. Ill be strictly doing rehab i imagine until month 5 or 6 I bet.

**MuscleInk** · 02-13-2013, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by sixfootseven

yeah luckily mine wasnt completely ruptured just partially torn, they took out a small amount of it.

what was your injury?

definitely will stay away from that stuff. Ill be strictly doing rehab i imagine until month 5 or 6 I bet.

Smart choice. The time will pass quickly.

**sixfootseven** · 02-13-2013, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Smart choice. The time will pass quickly.

thnx. So no real answer yet about deca on first cycle...

**The Bear 79** · 02-13-2013, 07:07 PM

19 nor compounds are not best for first timers, the sides can be a quite a bit more aggressive.

**Bio-Active** · 02-13-2013, 07:09 PM

No deca for first cycle. First cycle should be test only.

Originally Posted by sixfootseven

thnx. So no real answer yet about deca on first cycle...

**sixfootseven** · 02-13-2013, 07:13 PM

Thnx. Will stick w the test e as planned

**Bio-Active** · 02-13-2013, 07:15 PM

Good choice bro! see how your body reacts and if you get any sides you will know that it was caused only by the test. Good luck

Originally Posted by sixfootseven

Thnx. Will stick w the test e as planned

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