Lowest Clomid doses taken?

[DigitalGorilla]

So i dont know yet about the sides with CLomid - but if they are too much and I had to take less....whats the LEAST clomid you can take for PCT to start off??

Its probably me just worrying ...but I hear bad things about clomid....

[MickeyKnox]

I know there are studies out there (i may have one) that support 25mg to be effective in stimulating the pituitary creating rises in serum levels of LH and FSH. But im not saying to do this. Just that there is some data to support using lower doses. Would i use 25mg? Nope. But i have use as low as 50 and felt fine. Anything over 100mg for me messes with my vision.

[ChiveOn]

As was posted in your other thread you'll be fine with 50/50/25/25. I won't touch the stuff. Between the mental and emotional roller coaster and the possibility of messin with your vision it simply doesn't appeal to me when nolva alone has always done me just fine

[DigitalGorilla]

So why do people push the clomid so much? Ill be honest I didnt use it first cycle and I was fine....bounced back in a few weeks. But now I dont wanna chance it and so many people say clomid is the way to go....but nolvo alone is enough?

[stpete]

With your cycle, 50 for first week then 25 for remainder. Nolva is much better imo.

[stpete]

So why do people push the clomid so much? Ill be honest I didnt use it first cycle and I was fine....bounced back in a few weeks. But now I dont wanna chance it and so many people say clomid is the way to go....but nolvo alone is enough?

This is cycle dependent imo. your cycle is light. No reason for a bunch of clomid. Just my thoughts...

[MickeyKnox]

So why do people push the clomid so much? Ill be honest I didnt use it first cycle and I was fine....bounced back in a few weeks. But now I dont wanna chance it and so many people say clomid is the way to go....but nolvo alone is enough?

As Pete said, its' cycle dependent and your experience is rare. The standard and accepted protocol for PCT is Clomid/Nolva. However, there are others that chose a bit different protocol based on their experience and bloodwork.

[DigitalGorilla]

This is cycle dependent imo. your cycle is light. No reason for a bunch of clomid. Just my thoughts...

So PETE - you would just do the nolvo?

[DigitalGorilla]

Cause thats what my source reccomded last cycle....but people on here tore me a new one saying I needed to ass the clomid...

[stpete]

So PETE - you would just do the nolvo?

If just test yes i have.

[DigitalGorilla]

Well...test and Var - but two very short cycles.....and man I wish you were around a year ago when people were fighting me to the death about not taking Clomid. I got into huge fights with guys saying you need clomid to live lol

[Turkish Juicer]

Nolvadex & Clomid combined will provide a steroid user with an overall quicker & better recovery within the given amount of time.

If you use it at a given dosage and gives you sides, then you lower the dosage. If not, then there is no need for further debate whether Clomid is needed for recovery or not.

FYI, you can use as little as 25mg of Clomid for your PCT (along with Nolvadex) if you are so intimated by the potential sides (which not everybody experiences BTW) and not only this dosage is almost guaranteed to be side free but it will also be the better choice for recovery as opposed to running Nolvadex alone.

[stpete]

I was here. haha.....Sorry i missed it. Don't get me wrong though. They are great together depending on cycle, dosages and length. But test, var(your dosages and length) are very light to me. And nolva by itself for a cycle like yours, i have no reason for clomid. Nolva is a great product to take care of that.

[Turkish Juicer]

J Sex Med. 2005 Sep;2(5):716-21.

Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone /estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism.

Shabsigh A, Kang Y, Shabsign R, Gonzalez M, Liberson G, Fisch H, Goluboff E.

Source: Department of Urology, NY Presbyterian Medical Center, New York, NY, USA.

Abstract

AIM:

Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testosterone therapy . This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia , nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio.

METHODS:

Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.

RESULTS:

The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 +/- 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 +/- 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4-6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 +/- 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.

CONCLUSIONS:

Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estradiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.

[Turkish Juicer]

So... 25mg of Clomid is reported to be side-free. It raises natty test levels by %240 in hypogonadal men, as the comprehensive study above shows. It is a highly accessible compound and very cheap when dosed at 25mg ED for 4 weeks. World's leading endocrinologists who specialize on hypogonadism and its treatment suggest that both compounds are used together as this is how they practice with concrete evidence based on results.

Now begging the question: why would a person even waste his time to get involved in a completely abstract dialogue regarding this issue when all of this information is available?

[stpete]

^^^^ I was wondering when you were coming on board.

[DigitalGorilla]

I was here. haha.....Sorry i missed it. Don't get me wrong though. They are great together depending on cycle, dosages and length. But test, var(your dosages and length) are very light to me. And nolva by itself for a cycle like yours, i have no reason for clomid. Nolva is a great product to take care of that.

That was my thought all along. But ok - I think Im gonna hold off on the Clomid, just stick with the Nolvo and see what happens.

[MR10X]

I have used 50mg Clomid and 10mg Nolvadex ED after a test/tren cycle and recovered fine which bloodwork verified...

[Ashop]

So i dont know yet about the sides with CLomid - but if they are too much and I had to take less....whats the LEAST clomid you can take for PCT to start off??

Its probably me just worrying ...but I hear bad things about clomid....

50mg would be my minimum suggested dose.

[AD]

whether you get any side effects may be dose dependent, but also depends on individuals. i can take 100/50/50/50 with no sides whatsoever.

if you try to dig up some old threads, i believe people used to do 300mg as a first dose! i dont think all our old members are blind yet...

[DigitalGorilla]

lol gotcha