low dose test worth it?

[JayIsPumped]

a buddy of mine is running 300mg of test a week .. my question is; is that pointless because I think ur body produces 200-300 a week naturally (not positive). he thinks it will surpress his natural levels a little, but not completely and more-less "mix together".. Im thinking its kind of pointless and the 300 hes putting in will just replace his natural levels..?


whats ur opinion?

[allskill87]

a buddy of mine is running 300mg of test a week .. my question is; is that pointless because I think ur body produces 200-300 a week naturally (not positive). he thinks it will surpress his natural levels a little, but not completely and more-less "mix together".. Im thinking its kind of pointless and the 300 hes putting in will just replace his natural levels..?

whats ur opinion?

My first 3 cycles I did no more thn 250 test e a week n saw great gains

[JayIsPumped]

My first 3 cycles I did no more thn 250 test e a week n saw great gains

ok so u don't think it just replaces ur natty levels? but just mixes? for ex. if ur making 300 a week natty and u add 250 a week with test then ull b at 550 a week? cuz I thought it would surpress his natty levels and wouldn't b worth it to run that low

[allskill87]

ok so u don't think it just replaces ur natty levels? but just mixes? for ex. if ur making 300 a week natty and u add 250 a week with test then ull b at 550 a week? cuz I thought it would surpress his natty levels and wouldn't b worth it to run that low

I think it would add I don't think that250 a week would shut you down completely but I'm not positive. I mean it helped out a lot

[redz]

I wouldn`t bother running a dose that low personally.

[BBJT200]

Most people on here will agree that <300 is nearly pointless.
When you cycle, you should expect to be shut down and have to PCT.

I'd never run anything less than 500.

[calstate23]

a buddy of mine is running 300mg of test a week .. my question is; is that pointless because I think ur body produces 200-300 a week naturally (not positive). he thinks it will surpress his natural levels a little, but not completely and more-less "mix together".. Im thinking its kind of pointless and the 300 hes putting in will just replace his natural levels..?


whats ur opinion?

It will shut you down #1...#2 If you're going to be shut down might as well go higher...

[stpete]

^^^^^ That.

[< <Samson> >]

I would only run low doses to bridge cycles or full on trt.

[warmouth]

250mgs will certainly shut you down if cycled. No doubt about that. It will not add to. Never think this. It will basically only replace what is natural, and a little more. But since it does in fact shut you down, go higher to do it where it will produce better gains. 250 will give you a little edge, but not a lot more, and certainly not enough to be worth the shutdown. Good luck to your friend.

[JayIsPumped]

exactly what I thought...he wont believe me..ill have him read these

thanks-jay

[DigitalGorilla]

It will shut you down at any dose. And yes for beginners EVEN THAT low a dose would help.

[MickeyKnox]

ok so u don't think it just replaces ur natty levels? but just mixes? for ex. if ur making 300 a week natty and u add 250 a week with test then ull b at 550 a week? cuz I thought it would surpress his natty levels and wouldn't b worth it to run that low

My advice will likely go against the advice of most here. But i truly believe that doing more than 4 times the normal endogenous testosterone a healthy male produces, is more than enough for a beginner to get his feet wet - even for a couple of cycles.

Gixxer has ran low dose cycles and made terrific gains. And Allskill87 is a perfect example of someone who has run numerous low dose cycles and made terrific gains.

So its really up to your friend what he believes. I believe low dose cycles work - particularly in the beginning.

[gymfu]

My advice will likely go against the advice of most here. But i truly believe that doing more than 4 times the normal endogenous testosterone a healthy male produces, is more than enough for a beginner to get his feet wet - even for a couple of cycles.

Gixxer has ran low dose cycles and made terrific gains. And Allskill87 is a perfect example of someone who has run numerous low dose cycles and made terrific gains.

So its really up to your friend what he believes. I believe low dose cycles work - particularly in the beginning.

Where do you get doing 4x he's asking about using 300mg, the testies in the prime produce about 200mg/week.

300 will shut down almost the same as 3gr, time is the bigger factor here. How long is this cycle going to be? I have always advised first time cycles to be at 400mg/week this is double what the testies produce in your bodies prime and yields great results with proper diet and training.

[MickeyKnox]

Where do you get doing 4x he's asking about using 300mg, the testies in the prime produce about 200mg/week.

300 will shut down almost the same as 3gr, time is the bigger factor here. How long is this cycle going to be? I have always advised first time cycles to be at 400mg/week this is double what the testies produce in your bodies prime and yields great results with proper diet and training.

The average healthy male produces 7-11mg of testosterone per day. I used the low end to make my point.

Back to my examples of Gixx(when he first started) and allskill87 and a host of other beginners. How do you explain that?

EDIT: Dont get me wrong. Im not advocating everyone use 300mg of test for their first cycle. What i am saying is that its fine and WILL produce results, provided everything else is on target.

[gymfu]

The average healthy male produces 7-11mg of testosterone per day. I used the low end to make my point.

Back to my examples of Gixx(when he first started) and allskill87 and a host of other beginners. How do you explain that?

EDIT: Dont get me wrong. Im not advocating everyone use 300mg of test for their first cycle. What i am saying is that its fine and WILL produce results, provided everything else is on target.

I know from personal, verified with blood work, experience that 200mg of test c per week puts my levels at 950ng/dl and 100mg puts me at 570ng/dl. I'm not too sure about that 7-11 number, I know that's what they teach is text books but its kinda hard for me to believe given my blood work.

[MickeyKnox]

I know from personal, verified with blood work, experience that 200mg of test c per week puts my levels at 950ng/dl and 100mg puts me at 570ng/dl. I'm not too sure about that 7-11 number, I know that's what they teach is text books but its kinda hard for me to believe given my blood work.

Surely you think everyone is the same as you, do you bro? My bloodwork is completely different that yours, i assure you that. 100mg/wk puts me just over 400ng/dl.

But the "textbooks" seem to agree on the AVERAGE number of nanograms the healthy male produces. Thats all im saying, nothing more nothing less.

[Metalject]

300mg/wk will take most men way beyond the normal range of testosterone levels . A mere 200mg/wk will take most men into the 900-1200 range. Are there exceptions? Absolutely, but this is a fairly good gauge/estimate. Some might be surprised how high some mens testosterone levels go with a mere 100mg/wk. Granted, this doesn't mean they're piling on tons of muscle, but for many this is way beyond what they could naturally produce and takes them to the optimal range or at least close to it.

Last point, while 300mg/wk is nothing remarkable, if you're training with consistency and eating regularly and with a little thought behind it there's no reason you can't make some progress.

[MickeyKnox]

"....The testes produce testosterone regulated by a complex chain of signals that begins in the brain. This chain is called the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis. The hypothalamus secretes gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) to the pituitary gland in carefully timed pulses (bursts), which triggers the secretion of leutenizing hormone (lh - leutenizing hormone - ) from the pituitary gland. Leutenizing hormone stimulates the Leydig cells of the testes to produce testosterone. Normally, the testes produce 4–7 milligrams (mg) of testosterone daily."

[Metalject]

"....The testes produce testosterone regulated by a complex chain of signals that begins in the brain. This chain is called the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis. The hypothalamus secretes gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) to the pituitary gland in carefully timed pulses (bursts), which triggers the secretion of leutenizing hormone (lh - leutenizing hormone - ) from the pituitary gland. Leutenizing hormone stimulates the Leydig cells of the testes to produce testosterone. Normally, the testes produce 4–7 milligrams (mg) of testosterone daily."

If these numbers are accurate, that means 100mg/wk of Testosterone Cypionate would put most men well above what they can naturally produce, which would result in approximately 70mg of active testosterone. I do think those numbers are on the low side but they are not horrible by any means.

See, it didn't take too long before we were on the same page about something. Don't worry, I'll do my best to make sure this doesn't become a habit, lol!

[MickeyKnox]

If these numbers are accurate, that means 100mg/wk of Testosterone Cypionate would put most men well above what they can naturally produce, which would result in approximately 70mg of active testosterone . I do think those numbers are on the low side but they are not horrible by any means.

See, it didn't take too long before we were on the same page about something. Don't worry, I'll do my best to make sure this doesn't become a habit, lol!

I agree that these numbers are low, but i was simply trying to illustrate there is clinical data that supports even lower numbers than what i posted. That excerpt was form the Journal Of Endocrinology. Im never seen anything that supports 200mg/wk by anyone. That's almost 30mg a day!

[austinite]

a buddy of mine is running 300mg of test a week .. my question is; is that pointless because I think ur body produces 200-300 a week naturally (not positive). he thinks it will surpress his natural levels a little, but not completely and more-less "mix together".. Im thinking its kind of pointless and the 300 hes putting in will just replace his natural levels..?


whats ur opinion?

More like 70 ~

[MickeyKnox]

More like 70 ~

Appreciate the confirmation.

I knew it was close to 10ish per day. For some reason i had 711 (like the store..lol) in my head.

[AsEpSiS]

I personally love 300mg test E cycles. Virtually no side effects and good gains. Although the gains are probably modest, they're 100x better than any otc compound.

I've run 500mg with 300mg deca for 12 weeks, and gotten better gains on only 300mg test E. The reason was because on my bigger cycle, my diet was Shit. My lighter cycle, i got my diet in check and it made a world of difference.

Also, i think that starting at a low dose slows a person to learn their endocrine system and grow into the larger doses.

.....just my 02

[< <Samson> >]

Although the gains are probably modest, they're 100x better than any otc compound.

That is a fact. . . . 250mg a week of test will do at least 10x more than all supps combined.

[calstate23]

Plus, you have to realize injections will never mimic the EXACT secretion that natural body produces which is a shock in itself to the endo...

[asquarecan]

I ran 300mg Test-E for 10 weeks. Ate 4000-4500 cals daily, 200 grams of protein and 200 grams of carbs (all rough numbers but pretty close) I put on 21lbs on my cycle. I loved it. The hardest thing was getting my AI in check because running the recommended dose was not a good thing and took a little playing with before I got my E2 levels in check. I am going to run my 2nd cycle at 500mg.

A lot of people said 300 was pointless but 20lbs was not pointless to me. It all comes down to your diet at the end of the day.

[OnTheSauce]

I ran 300mg Test-E for 10 weeks. Ate 4000-4500 cals daily, 200 grams of protein and 200 grams of carbs (all rough numbers but pretty close) I put on 21lbs on my cycle. I loved it. The hardest thing was getting my AI in check because running the recommended dose was not a good thing and took a little playing with before I got my E2 levels in check. I am going to run my 2nd cycle at 500mg.

A lot of people said 300 was pointless but 20lbs was not pointless to me. It all comes down to your diet at the end of the day.

200gr protein and 200gr Carbs is no where near 4500 unless you had 300gr of fat everyday. 21lbs doesn't mean much if you were severly underweight.

[calstate23]

I ran 300mg Test-E for 10 weeks. Ate 4000-4500 cals daily, 200 grams of protein and 200 grams of carbs (all rough numbers but pretty close) I put on 21lbs on my cycle. I loved it. The hardest thing was getting my AI in check because running the recommended dose was not a good thing and took a little playing with before I got my E2 levels in check. I am going to run my 2nd cycle at 500mg.

A lot of people said 300 was pointless but 20lbs was not pointless to me. It all comes down to your diet at the end of the day.

So you ate 1,600 calories in protein and carbs and then 2,500-3,000 calories in fat?

Sounds like a GREAT diet....

[asquarecan]

I meant 300 sorry. I have a small frame but I was very happy with 20lbs on a 10 week long ester cycle.

[asquarecan]

So you ate 1,600 calories in protein and carbs and then 2,500-3,000 calories in fat?

Sounds like a GREAT diet....

My calories were lower on some days then others and my number may be off a bit. I stuck to eating salmon, chicken, brown rice, fruits, and lots of grains, greens and protein shakes.

I should have double checked my numbers before I posted them. However I saw good gains with a clean diet @ 300mg a week.

[gymfu]

If these numbers are accurate, that means 100mg/wk of Testosterone Cypionate would put most men well above what they can naturally produce, which would result in approximately 70mg of active testosterone . I do think those numbers are on the low side but they are not horrible by any means.

See, it didn't take too long before we were on the same page about something. Don't worry, I'll do my best to make sure this doesn't become a habit, lol!

Yea, and that's all I was saying is that I know the "textbooks" say 7-10 but I don't see how that could be accurate. When 100 gives me 570 and you 400? See the problem here?

I think a later post here prob has something, that the natural test might work a little differently.

I defiantly I'm a "use as little as possible to reach your goals" kinda guy so maybe 300 is not a bad idea, I have seen 400/week do great and I've recommended it here and to any newbie that I talk to.

[FRDave]

My TRT dose of 100mg weekly (inject 50mg every 3.5 days) put me at 750 via lab corp on a range of 350-1200. With this in mind, clearly everyone metabolizes testosterone differently, but a dose of 300mg weekly would put my test levels way above the normal range. Just being at 750 my strenth is at it's highest ever, even better than in my mid 20's.

Dave

[slumchop]

My first 3 cycles I did no more thn 250 test e a week n saw great gains

same here

[MickeyKnox]

Yea, and that's all I was saying is that I know the "textbooks" say 7-10 but I don't see how that could be accurate. When 100 gives me 570 and you 400? See the problem here?

I think a later post here prob has something, that the natural test might work a little differently.

I defiantly I'm a "use as little as possible to reach your goals" kinda guy so maybe 300 is not a bad idea, I have seen 400/week do great and I've recommended it here and to any newbie that I talk to.

Something to keep in mind is, im not a healthy male (secondary hypogonadism, and suffering from Andropause ). Im also turning 48 this year.

The textbook values have been determined by studying 1000's of healthy young males and drawing a mean average. The end result was approx 7,and as high as 11mg/day. From Dr. Young - Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism (June, 1999) "A normal young man will produce a total of about 6 milligrams (mg), or 6 hundredths of a gram, per day"

There is a ton of clinical data supporting 70mg/wk from a healthy young male. But i have yet to find anything close to 20-30mg/day.

So 300mg of exogenous testosterone is quite a bit above natural production, and i would think it would be a terrific starting base. BUT, so as not to appear as a hypocrite, if i were asked for a recommendation, i would follow my own direction and point them towards the Beginners Cycles Thread.

[JayIsPumped]

wow got a lot of replies and great info, thanks everyone appreciate your in-put, hes a lil on the younger side. so a low dose is prolly safer ide assume?