Running Tamoxifen (nolva) on cycle

[JWP806]

I wasn't sure where I should post this but I figured posting here would receive the most traffic...

I was reading up on Nolva and came across this from Steroid .com:

"Estrogen is also important for a properly functioning immune system, and not only that, but your lipid profile (both HDL and LDL) should also show marked improvement with administration of tamoxifen (4). Many bodybuilders actually use this stuff during their cycle for the health benefits provided by it."

Do any of you guys use nolva on cycle for improving your lipid panel? Does it make a significant difference?

If so, how safe is it? Obviously, the less compounds we are taking, the better. Would taking Nolva on cycle be worth it?

[MuscleInk]

I wasn't sure where I should post this but I figured posting here would receive the most traffic...

I was reading up on Nolva and came across this from Steroid .com:

"Estrogen is also important for a properly functioning immune system, and not only that, but your lipid profile (both HDL and LDL) should also show marked improvement with administration of tamoxifen (4). Many bodybuilders actually use this stuff during their cycle for the health benefits provided by it."

Do any of you guys use nolva on cycle for improving your lipid panel? Does it make a significant difference?

If so, how safe is it? Obviously, the less compounds we are taking, the better. Would taking Nolva on cycle be worth it?

I'm doing it on cycle now for first time for the reason you cited. Will do lipid panel in two weeks and again at end of cycle.

[JWP806]

Awesome, have you changed you AI protocol?

[JWP806]

I'd also be interested to know if it hinders gains at all. The same article says it possibly reduces IGF.

[MuscleInk]

Awesome, have you changed you AI protocol?

Sticking with adex for now but backed it down to .5mg/wk. I wanted to switch to aromasin but aromasin is more lipid friendly among AIs so any improvement in lipid metabolism would be confounded. If the nolva helps with lipids I may consider a regular part of my protocol provided no sides or crashing E2.

[MuscleInk]

I'd also be interested to know if it hinders gains at all. The same article says it possibly reduces IGF.

I'm running GH at 10ius daily. I have about 120 bottles of IGF-1 but I'm not using it currently.

[JWP806]

Sticking with adex for now but backed it down to .5mg/wk. I wanted to switch to aromasin but aromasin is more lipid friendly among AIs so any improvement in lipid metabolism would be confounded. If the nolva helps with lipids I may consider a regular part of my protocol provided no sides or crashing E2.

Yeah, that's true. I was taking liquidex and prami for my past test/tren cycle and still developed a small lump so I have been running some nolva to curb it until my Ralox gets in, which should be tomorrow. If I am taking ralox, would it be wise to also run nolva (for lipid control) alongside it? I don't believe ralox has the same properties for lipid control as nolva does?

[JWP806]

I'm running GH at 10ius daily. I have about 120 bottles of IGF-1 but I'm not using it currently.

So it's definitely not an issue for you...

[MuscleInk]

Yeah, that's true. I was taking liquidex and prami for my past test/tren cycle and still developed a small lump so I have been running some nolva to curb it until my Ralox gets in, which should be tomorrow. If I am taking ralox, would it be wise to also run nolva (for lipid control) alongside it? I don't believe ralox has the same properties for lipid control as nolva does?

I've only used the combo once on a young patient with bilateral gyno. Ralox can be a problem with hyperlipidemia and hypertension and can increase risk of DVTs and MI in a limited population at risk for cardiac events. Unlike other SERMs it can cause more edema, cramping and insomnia for some people.

[MuscleInk]

So it's definitely not an issue for you...

I hope not at 10ius! Lol

[JWP806]

I've only used the combo once on a young patient with bilateral gyno. Ralox can be a problem with hyperlipidemia and hypertension and can increase risk of DVTs and MI in a limited population at risk for cardiac events. Unlike other SERMs it can cause more edema, cramping and insomnia for some people.

I just read some of that info earlier today... I have heard ralox is the absolute best compound to treat gyno but you never hear about the terrible possible sides. How safe do you feel ralox is for a 26 year old with no prior heart conditions? Would you recommend it to treat gyno and would it be a good idea to run it with nolva to help combat hyperlipidemia?

Thanks for baring with me with all of my questions. Your answers have been very helpful.

[jimmyinkedup]

Sticking with adex for now but backed it down to .5mg/wk. I wanted to switch to aromasin but aromasin is more lipid friendly among AIs so any improvement in lipid metabolism would be confounded. If the nolva helps with lipids I may consider a regular part of my protocol provided no sides or crashing E2.

Keep in mind tamox administration will lower blood levels of arimidex by around 30% SO rather than back it down you may need to bump it up.

[MuscleInk]

I just read some of that info earlier today... I have heard ralox is the absolute best compound to treat gyno but you never hear about the terrible possible sides. How safe do you feel ralox is for a 26 year old with no prior heart conditions? Would you recommend it to treat gyno and would it be a good idea to run it with nolva to help combat hyperlipidemia?

Thanks for baring with me with all of my questions. Your answers have been very helpful.

That should be fine. Several reasons many docs don't prescribe raloxifene:
- affects vitamin D and calcium absorption
- larger doses required
- vascular effects

You could run the two for a week but supplement your D and calcium to compensate for effects of raloxifene.

[stpete]

Keep in mind tamox administration will lower blood levels of arimidex by around 30% SO rather than back it down you may need to bump it up.

I was thinking the same thing but didn't know the %. Thanks, jimmy.

[MuscleInk]

Keep in mind tamox administration will lower blood levels of arimidex by around 30% SO rather than back it down you may need to bump it up.

That is correct. Checking my E2 levels soon to see where they are at. Running prami with tren currently too. Before the tamoxifen I was running 1mg/wk. Cut that in half until BW mid cycle. Will adjust based on BW.

[jimmyinkedup]

I've only used the combo once on a young patient with bilateral gyno. Ralox can be a problem with hyperlipidemia and hypertension and can increase risk of DVTs and MI in a limited population at risk for cardiac events. Unlike other SERMs it can cause more edema, cramping and insomnia for some people.

Isnt it true that these are the only side effects it exhibits more than other serms? Also arent there other sides of tamox that are more prevalent with it than ralox that are more dangerous? In fact blood clotting is more prevalent with tamox than ralox, especially in the lungs. Look im all about sides awareness BUT im all about being realistic when it comes to them. If I have gyno - Im taking/have taken Raloxifene..period end of story. Also lets consider the possibility of some gender specific sides here. I think if we compare clinical data for the purpose of gyno treatment in males both ralox and tamox are considered safe and effective. Ralox is just more effective for this purpose.
Doesnt tamox also lower good cholesterol as well as bad IIRC ?

[jimmyinkedup]

That is correct. Checking my E2 levels soon to see where they are at. Running prami with tren currently too. Before the tamoxifen I was running 1mg/wk. Cut that in half until BW mid cycle. Will adjust based on BW.

I figured u were aware. Now everyone is ;-)

[MuscleInk]

Isnt it true that these are the only side effects it exhibits more than other serms? Also arent there other sides of tamox that are more prevalent with it than ralox that are more dangerous? In fact blood clotting is more prevalent with tamox than ralox, especially in the lungs. Look im all about sides awareness BUT im all about being realistic when it comes to them. If I have gyno - Im taking/have taken Raloxifene..period end of story. Also lets consider the possibility of some gender specific sides here. I think if we compare clinical data for the purpose of gyno treatment in males both ralox and tamox are considered safe and effective. Ralox is just more effective for this purpose.
Doesnt tamox also lower good cholesterol as well as bad IIRC ?

Raloxifene comes with a black box warning for patients with a hx of thromboembolisms and/or CHD. Similar risks are seen with all SERMs but have been more prevalent with raloxifene. Of course, all of these side effects have to be viewed within the appropriate context. As you know, these compounds are largely developed for breast cancers or osteoporosis in postmenopausal women. The former group of individuals are frequently treated with numerous concomitant meds for terminal disease and as such have numerous comorbidities which contribute to risks and likely influence efficacy of any one of the drugs they receive for treatment.

I agree, while it is prudent to raise awareness of possible side effect, we certainly don't want to cry wolf and instill panic by overstating risks. A related problem however is that much of the information disseminated here is given with little regard to an individual's health history. We don't know who sits on the other side of that keyboard (or smart phone) and what may be relevant information in prescribing a treatment (AI, SERM, etc.) may not be readily disclosed to us.

I have yet to see any thromboembolic events in any patient treated with raloxifene - even among terminally ill patients - but it's a risk worth being aware of. The reality is, the probability for a serious adverse rxn such as DVT or an MI is most
likely very low, but the events themselves are significant enough to warrant caution. The most common clinical complaints with raloxifene are edema, insomnia, and cramping but the effect of raloxifene on calcium and vitamin D metabolism is also a concern among physicians - but again, its not like to be as big an issue in an otherwise healthy male/female who is making strides to exercise and eat correctly.

[JWP806]

Guys, the information you provided is outstanding. I appreciate your extremely thorough responses and explanations.

That's why I love this board.

[MuscleInk]

Guys, the information you provided is outstanding. I appreciate your extremely thorough responses and explanations.

That's why I love this board.

Jimmy continually impresses!

Glad you posted the thread JWP. It's a great topic for discussion.

[jimmyinkedup]

Jimmy continually impresses!

Glad you posted the thread JWP. It's a great topic for discussion.

me? Its great having you posting the info and knowledge you bring to the table MI. I am always learning here.

[warmouth]

me? Its great having you posting the info and knowledge you bring to the table MI. I am always learning here.

Yeah you! And MI. I've been silently researching this same topic for months and have gotten more from this thread.