How much above TDEE should I eat on this 'cycle'

[Perseverance1]

Let's say my TDEE is 3500


Here's the cycle layout:
Test e 125mg
Tren e 700mg
Mast e 800mg
Caber .5mg e3d

GHRP-6/mod grf 1-29 3x a day @ 100mcg per dose

IGF-1 Lr3 2x 50mcg doses daily

4 day lifting split, some type of cardio will be done each day (I know tren will kill cardio so the most ill be doing is walking)


Staples in diet:

Brown rice (maybe)
Whole grain wheat pasta
Ezikiel bread
95% lean ground beef (97% if it's not too expensive)
Chicken breast
Sweet potatoes (once a day MAX if at all)
BBQ sauce (brand with the least sugar)
Red sauce (organic if it's affordable)
Low fat white sauce (small amount when used)
Hydro whey
1-2 pieces of fruit within first two meals of the day
Organic cashews (unsalted)
Organic English walnuts (unsalted)
Organic chopped nuts (unsalted)
100% natural peanut butter



Things I may occasionally throw in...but probably not cause I'm fine eating the same 2 meals everyday.

Casein protein
Shrimp
Some kind of lean fish
I might use some curry sauce every once in a while....250 calories of it covers 26oz of chicken nicely.


I don't cheat on a diet unless I have a designated refeed day, which if that's the case I have specific rules I follow for it....so my cals are all going to be clean cals minus the sauces.



Some of the supps I'll be running throughout (not a complete list)

Fish oil (12-21g per day)
Multi vitamin
Cissus
Taurine 3-5g per day
Cialis 5mg/day
Possibly creatine mono...not sure yet

while eating a 40/40/20 diet, what do you guys think I should eat over my TDEE to maximize lean gains? Let me know if there's something I missed...

Thanks.

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

It depends on your stats and what your goals are for the cycle.

[bigZthedestroyer]

It depends on your stats and what your goals are for the cycle.

X2...it's hard to help without more info.

[Perseverance1]

I won't know my exact stats when I begin this protocol but it should be something along these lines:

Age: 24
Height: 6'2
Weight: 185
Bodyfat: 12%

Training Experience: 6 years
Also using a personal trainer (professional spotter...not joking lol)


My goal is to hit 205@8% bf, this cycle will be ran for three months.

Also if I dont cut up while bulking I can do a moderately dosed DNP short cycle to drop from 12 to 8% towards the very end. Is there anything else you guys need?

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

How have you been eating for the 6 years you have been training? 163lbs of LBM only?

How many cycles have you done, your AAS compounds and dosages seem a bit extreme for that stats you are at.

I would hit the nutrition section and build a diet with exact macro and calories totals for your training days and non-training days so you get exact numbers and know what you are working with.

Why so much Tren?

[Perseverance1]

How have you been eating for the 6 years you have been training? 163lbs of LBM only?

How many cycles have you done, your AAS compounds and dosages seem a bit extreme for that stats you are at.

I would hit the nutrition section and build a diet with exact macro and calories totals for your training days and non-training days so you get exact numbers and know what you are working with.

Why so much Tren?

I trained for 5 years straight and got to 215 @ around 10%bf, then broke my back dead lifting and couldn't lift for a couple years....after some years of physical therapy I have gradually been able to do more and more. Also, I was lifting again consistently for around 6 months, started a test only cycle and got to 226 @ around 14% bf when I tore my rhomboid...I've been healing ever since and I'm about 100% so it's time to get back into it...I'm not going to benefit from the nutrition section much as my old weightlifting buddy has hired an incredible personal trainer (he used to compete with Phil Heath, has his picture/articles in various magazines, and cots $2,300 a year to give you an idea of how good he is) that I have limited access to through him.

Unfortunately though my friend is competing naturally, so I can't have him ask AAS related questions.


I'm running a high dose of tren because I don't subscribe to the "less is more" theory many here tote. Less is never more and I have some very difficult goals to attain in the allotted time which makes me more than willing to spend a couple extra bucks on some additional vials.

I'll also be taking my BP 10+ times a day, getting regular blood work, having my prostate examined and be getting at least two EKGs,...so as far as the safety aspect goes I should be alright, unless there's something else you can think of.

Plus I'm really not too scared of the sides (taking 350mg as we speak, so I have a little idea of what 700 might be like).

I should also probably add that I won't be working or going to school or anything while I'm doing this so there is nothing to distract me from my goals (no girls, either...just food, iron, and lab work).


I realize what I'm doing sounds crazy to many of you, but I'm confident in my abilities to monitor/control all sides and to generally handle this as safely as possible. What I am looking for is help on doing this as efficiently as possible. I don't fully understand the growth capabilities of these compounds under such perfect conditions.

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

I trained for 5 years straight and got to 215 @ around 10%bf, then broke my back dead lifting and couldn't lift for a couple years....after some years of physical therapy I have gradually been able to do more and more. Also, I was lifting again consistently for around 6 months, started a test only cycle and got to 226 @ around 14% bf when I tore my rhomboid...I've been healing ever since and I'm about 100% so it's time to get back into it...I'm not going to benefit from the nutrition section much as my old weightlifting buddy has hired an incredible personal trainer (he used to compete with Phil Heath, has his picture/articles in various magazines, and cots $2,300 a year to give you an idea of how good he is) that I have limited access to through him.

Unfortunately though my friend is competing naturally, so I can't have him ask AAS related questions.


I'm running a high dose of tren because I don't subscribe to the "less is more" theory many here tote. Less is never more and I have some very difficult goals to attain in the allotted time which makes me more than willing to spend a couple extra bucks on some additional vials.

I'll also be taking my BP 10+ times a day, getting regular blood work, having my prostate examined and be getting at least two EKGs,...so as far as the safety aspect goes I should be alright, unless there's something else you can think of.

Plus I'm really not too scared of the sides (taking 350mg as we speak, so I have a little idea of what 700 might be like).

I should also probably add that I won't be working or going to school or anything while I'm doing this so there is nothing to distract me from my goals (no girls, either...just food, iron, and lab work).


I realize what I'm doing sounds crazy to many of you, but I'm confident in my abilities to monitor/control all sides and to generally handle this as safely as possible. What I am looking for is help on doing this as efficiently as possible. I don't fully understand the growth capabilities of these compounds under such perfect conditions.

I'm sorry for your injuries and hope you have a swift recovery .

IMO I don't think that amount of Tren is necessary for what you are trying to achieve, just my opinion though.

Reverting back to your original question - I would not exceed your TDEE to much if you are trying to bulk so that you can keep your gains to LBM and minimal BF. As you grow and gain weight adjust your diet accordingly as your TDEE will change.

This is all basic nutrition and dieting though that I'm sure the expensive phil heath coach would have filled you in on .

Why don't you just did what got you to - 215 10% and 226 14%?

[Perseverance1]

I'm sorry for your injuries and hope you have a swift recovery .

IMO I don't think that amount of Tren is necessary for what you are trying to achieve, just my opinion though.

Reverting back to your original question - I would not exceed your TDEE to much if you are trying to bulk so that you can keep your gains to LBM and minimal BF. As you grow and gain weight adjust your diet accordingly as your TDEE will change.

This is all basic nutrition and dieting though that I'm sure the expensive phil heath coach would have filled you in on .

Why don't you just did what got you to - 215 10% and 226 14%?

It took me 5 years to go from a 14 year old 6'1 140 pound runt to a 19 year old 6'2 215 pound stud. Additionally, it took me close to a gram of test to hit 226@14%

As far as your opinion regarding tren dosage...I hope you're right because 205@8% is my bare minimum for me to consider what I'm doing a success, in reality I'm trying to get as big as possible by August 1 with sub 10% bf.

Oh, and the "go by the scale" TDEE advice won't work too well considering my time table. I need to be operating at 100% efficiency from the start. Don't have room for error and like I said earlier, I don't know how potent tren is when used under these conditions. It should be pretty insane though.

[Tron3219]

I won't know my exact stats when I begin this protocol but it should be something along these lines:

Age: 24
Height: 6'2
Weight: 185
Bodyfat: 12%

Training Experience: 6 years
Also using a personal trainer (professional spotter...not joking lol)

My goal is to hit 205@8% bf, this cycle will be ran for three months.

Also if I dont cut up while bulking I can do a moderately dosed DNP short cycle to drop from 12 to 8% towards the very end. Is there anything else you guys need?

Bud, I don't mean this in any form of disrespect, but according to your comp pics, ur nowhere near 12%. I'm leaning closer to like 18 tbh...like I said, no disrespect or flaming going on, I just don't want you to have inaccurate numbers for your diet.

-TroN-

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

Eating at about 600-700 cals above maintenance would be a good start. Keeping your foods as clean as possible and with your macros in line will be your best bet.

I always plan my cycles-

1) Full diet plan written and organized
2) Training schedule
3) AAS compounds and dosages

All in number of priority before beginning my cycles and of course adjusted to meet my goals.

The nutrition guys will help you most since your question is on the diet and nutrition subject.

Clean and proper nutrition with or without AAS is not vastly different besides and increase in protein intake and carb/fat intake, again - pertaining to your own goals.

[Perseverance1]

Bud, I don't mean this in any form of disrespect, but according to your comp pics, ur nowhere near 12%. I'm leaning closer to like 18 tbh...like I said, no disrespect or flaming going on, I just don't want you to have inaccurate numbers for your diet.

-TroN-

I'm also 205 in those pics. I won't be starting the above protocol until after 3 weeks of cutting eating at a large deficit + doing cardio every day and then a 20 day DNP cycle after that. If anything I'll actually be leaner than my guess of 185@12%.

Plus in those pics I gained 10 pounds in 20 hours prior to photo time and added 4" to my waist...I haven't weighed in this morning (still in bed) but I'm probably down 8 pounds since taking them as I haven't had any carbs since then lol.

Good lookin' out though.

[Tron3219]

I'm also 205 in those pics. I won't be starting the above protocol until after 3 weeks of cutting eating at a large deficit + doing cardio every day and then a 20 day DNP cycle after that. If anything I'll actually be leaner than my guess of 185@12%.

Plus in those pics I gained 10 pounds in 20 hours prior to photo time and added 4" to my waist...I haven't weighed in this morning (still in bed) but I'm probably down 8 pounds since taking them as I haven't had any carbs since then lol.

Good lookin' out though.

U ate 35,000 calories in 20 hours?!

-TroN-

[Perseverance1]

U ate 35,000 calories in 20 hours?!

-TroN-

I just kept insulin high and took on a lot of water...essentially I manipulated nutrition a bit. Next day at weigh in I was already down 6 pounds. Gotta love science.