Am I thinking correctly with my HCG plan?

[staygroovy]

I'm running a 12 week Test-E, 250mg x2 a week cycle.

I have 5000iu HCG which I plan to mix with 2ml of Bac water and pre-load 2x 1ml insulin syringes and inject sub-q 2x 250iu a week (each injection being 0,1ml from the syringe which i keep refrigerated). I plan to run this for the last 8 weeks of my cycle and take the last 250iu injection a day before I start my PCT. Im only running this for 8 weeks as after 8 weeks (56 days) the Bac water will become old. I will simply discard the remaining 1000iu (0,4ml) of the last syringe as it will be old Bac water/less potent HCG. Am I thinking correctly?

The Bac water im using is Hospira (green cap) with 0,9% sodium chloride. I do not have more than 5000iu HCG (one amp) or a spare vial and that is why i plan to preload the syringes instead.

Also I have read that Nolva may be needed with HCG, correct or not? If correct then what would be the signs that nolva is needed and at what dose?

[kelkel]

Get more hcg and start it earlier in your cycle. You don't need nolva on cycle, pct yes. Use an AI on cycle.

[staygroovy]

Get more hcg and start it earlier in your cycle. You don't need nolva on cycle, pct yes. Use an AI on cycle.

Thanks for the info. I have nolva for PCT and AI for use on cycle, just wanted to avoid purchasing more HCG just for 4 weeks and end up throwning too much away.

[staygroovy]

Is keeping preloaded syringes for 8 weeks ok and is 0,1ml per injection ok?

[MickeyKnox]

I agree with Kel. Pick up some more hCG.

BUT..if you're unable to, why not begin your hCG at wk3 and run it 500iu/wk for ten wks = 5000iu. ?

Also, i would not pre load pins and have them sit around unless you intend on freezing them. In other words, do not store your hCG in slin pins unless they are in the freezer. Yes, im sure everything would be fine because its only water, but why take a chance. Storing anything in a pin doesn't sit well with me.

That's my .02 on storage.

Staygroovey,

Same advice for you on staorage.

And yes, 0.1ml = 250iu hCG if lyophilized hCG was reconstituted with 2ml BW.

[staygroovy]

Thanks for your input Mickey, but i cant use for 10 weeks as I must mix the 5000iu in one go and Bac water, as i understand, can only be stored for a max of 60 days once mixed with HCG. That means after 8 weeks it's too old and I must mix a new batch.
I hear you about storing in a slin pin so maybe I will load up more pins and freeze them instead. I do not have any new vials (only empty vials ive had test in and i guess its not a good idea to reuse them!?).

[MickeyKnox]

Thanks for your input Mickey, but i cant use for 10 weeks as I must mix the 5000iu in one go and Bac water, as i understand, can only be stored for a max of 60 days once mixed with HCG. That means after 8 weeks it's too old and I must mix a new batch.
I hear you about storing in a slin pin so maybe I will load up more pins and freeze them instead. I do not have any new vials (only empty vials ive had test in and i guess its not a good idea to reuse them!?).

You dont need an extra vial. The trick to extending the life of hCG is to load up half (1ml - 10 pins) and freeze them. They're good for as many wks as you need, never mind 10.

Freezing hCG

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n#.UJKMCGfX_fs

[staygroovy]

Got it, thanks Mickey!

[MR10X]

Mix it with 1 mil water and do 500 iu every 3 days,it will last 30 days,doses over 500iu arent going to be much better. The half life is about 36 hrs.I use it the last 4 weeks of a cycle then use Nolvadex and clomid for PCT.Use an AI during cycle to control E2. Just add 1mil water to the HCG vial and use .1 ml per shot and you will get 10 shots@500iu....

[MickeyKnox]

Mix it with 1 mil water and do 500 iu every 3 days,it will last 30 days,doses over 500iu arent going to be much better. The half life is about 36 hrs.I use it the last 4 weeks of a cycle then use Nolvadex and clomid for PCT.Use an AI during cycle to control E2. Just add 1mil water to the HCG vial and use .1 ml per shot and you will get 10 shots@500iu....

My opinion and belief is that it's better to prevent testicular atrophy, rather than treat it.

[MR10X]

My personal experience with using it the last 4 weeks has been very sucessful with blood work to prove it.When i first started doing AAS we didnt do pct at all because it was not known. I dont feel 12 week cycles are more productive in adding mass,after 8 weeks theres very little gain if at all because your training will reach a plateu if you have trained at the intensity needed.I feel 3-8 week cycles will be more effective than 2-12 week cycles per year if your goal is to add mass. I know peolple like to do 12 week cycles so they can be jacked longer,but my goal in the first place is to add mass with AAS........But thats a different thread

[MickeyKnox]

My personal experience with using it the last 4 weeks has been very sucessful with blood work to prove it.When i first started doing AAS we didnt do pct at all because it was not known. I dont feel 12 week cycles are more productive in adding mass,after 8 weeks theres very little gain if at all because your training will reach a plateu if you have trained at the intensity needed.I feel 3-8 week cycles will be more effective than 2-12 week cycles per year if your goal is to add mass. I know peolple like to do 12 week cycles so they can be jacked longer,but my goal in the first place is to add mass with AAS........But thats a different thread

So have I.

My point, that you're missing because you're too busy rambling about cycles and other shyt, is that most AAS users and the medical community believe that it's more prudent to prevent an unwanted side rather than treat it.

[MR10X]

From steroid.com web site

"While a SERM is always needed, there is a second additional option that can be worth your consideration; the potent peptide hormone Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG). By its mode of action, hCG acts to stimulate natural testosterone through an LH mimicking effect; LH isn’t actually released, but your body thinks it is. hCG use isn’t always needed, but it can be a perfect way to prime your body for the SERM therapy to come. Of course, as you want to understand how to come off steroids, you need to know how to implement both hCG and your SERM, and depending on which SERM you use, how your steroid cycle ends and if you include hCG this will determine what is known as your Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) treatment plan. It must be noted; hCG use must be limited; hCG abuse can be more damaging than most other types of performance abuse in a long-term sense. If you use too much or for too long, your body may become dependent on this LH mimicking action, and if this occurs, you may very well find a permanent low testosterone condition"

How Do I Use HCG with Steroids?
April 14, 2010 By Michael Scally, M.D. 0 Comments and 0 Reactions
Q: What’s the logic behind all the different timing and dosing of HCG ?? We hear taking it every day, every other day, every 3rd, 4th, or 5th day.

What about the dosing ? I hear to take it easy to prevent desensitizing the testes. With this you hear anywhere from 100 units to 250 units to play it safe. Others say anywhere from 500 to 2500 units at a time…Isn’t that a bit much ?

What about the length of time? I hear two clinics suggest 10 days; others say 3-5 weeks. Where does all this come from and who’s right?

A: Almost everything you hear or read will be anecdotal and therefore subject to no verification. Experiences with hCG while on TRT are posted. The use of hCG for PCT is only partly related to its use on TRT.

hCG while on TRT is used for two reasons. One reason is cosmetic. While on TRT it is not unusual and more often expected to have testicular atrophy. This is variable from individual to individual. The other reason is to act as a stimulus so the testicles do not shut down and therefore will be easier to initiate independent function after AAS cessation.

Desensitization is a potential problem with hCG. I do not think you will experience it with doses of 500IU or less 3X/week. Studies have used this dose for considerably long periods. In my patients when hCG was used while on AAS the dose was 1000IU every 3 days with one month on hCG followed by one month off hCG.



I do not feel its necessary to use HCG the whole time while on cycle,you could use it 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off during a cycle,or the last 4 weeks as i have done with good sucess.....

[MickeyKnox]

Do you have any independent thoughts of your own, or are you just going to continue to copy and paste other peoples ideas and hard work and then claim them to be your own?

First of all, the definition and function of hCG is well known - but thanks for the cut and paste brush up.

Secondly, "long term" and "too long" is subjective and certainly not meant for the average AAS user.

And thirdly, if you check my past comments on this subject, i have NEVER suggested that a 4 wk blast would not restore testicular function and return an otherwise healthy male back to being eugonadal. In fact, i have recommended it for those that have neglected to include it on cycle for other reasons.

So, if you choose to exclude it on cycle and administer it during the last 4wks of YOUR cycle, that's your prerogative. But my advice is, and always will be, to prevent ANY unwanted sides rather than treat them after consciously allowing them to occur. And if you re read Scallys answer he does not deny this nor does he suggest at any time NOT to include it on cycle.

Perhaps you should invest some real time into Dr. Scally and his enormous body of work, beyond trying to locate a scant cut and paste to support "your" ideas.

[MR10X]

My problem with your responses are you think yours is the only right way to do it.If we were worried about preventing unwanted side effects we wouldnt even be using steroids. I posted articles that contradict what your saying and you get all pissy. THERE ARE UNWANTED SIDE EFFECTS WITH HCG,you seem to imply that it should be used through out the whole cycle,while thats your opinion its not 100% correct.

[MickeyKnox]

Fair enough.

Lets put it this way, i disagree with you based on experience, empirical data, clinical fact, and most of the medical community that agrees with and understands prevention vs treatment.

Is that better?

[kelkel]

Couple of points after reading the point-counter-points above:

Scally's Power PCT Protocol actually is 2000 IU's HCG EOD for 10 shots total.

The goal here is HPTA Function. How you get there is up to the individual as long as you have a successful outcome. I don't think anyone can argue maintaining some function throughout a cycle is better than the opposite. When your working off of endogenous LH your body doesn't take breaks.

Yes, HCG is used for cosmetic purposes while on TRT and to the uninformed doctor that is about all. Note that there are LH receptors throughout the body as well as many in your brain. Meaning it provides neurological benefits beyond what most think it is used for. I see no reason to deny yourself this benefit for any amount of time.

[MR10X]

Heres Dr Scally response to the question i asked him

Question:
What are your thoughts on using HCG while on cycle. Do you think it should be used for the whole duration of the cycle or just the last part of the cycle. Im talking about 8 to 12 week cycles.I personally like to use it the last 4 weeks of a cycle.500iu every 3 days for 30 days,then Nolvadex and Clomid.

Answer:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FWIW: This is the method I used for most, but the hCG is extended to the point where there would be hypothalmo-pituitary function expected. So, in almost ALL cases this will extend past the last AAS administration. Again, the duration will depend upon the AAS type, dose, & duration used. Sometimes for patient compliance, hCG was used for the whole cycle. It might be hard to believe, but some just are not able to remember much when it comes to schedules!!!

[MickeyKnox]

Heres Dr Scally response to the question i asked him

Question:
What are your thoughts on using HCG while on cycle. Do you think it should be used for the whole duration of the cycle or just the last part of the cycle. Im talking about 8 to 12 week cycles.I personally like to use it the last 4 weeks of a cycle.500iu every 3 days for 30 days,then Nolvadex and Clomid.

Answer:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FWIW: This is the method I used for most, but the hCG is extended to the point where there would be hypothalmo-pituitary function expected. So, in almost ALL cases this will extend past the last AAS administration. Again, the duration will depend upon the AAS type, dose, & duration used. Sometimes for patient compliance, hCG was used for the whole cycle. It might be hard to believe, but some just are not able to remember much when it comes to schedules!!!

Lmao.

Im not surprised, but i am surprised that you don't quite seem to understand this. ?

Take a quick read through some of these studies to familiarize yourself with the importance of the hypothalmo-pituitary function and its role on the HPTA.

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=h...ed=0CDAQgQMwAA

[MR10X]

Lmao,you just dont get it Mikey. I understand how it works,Thats why after 30 plus cycles my system is still functioning normally....

[kelkel]

As long as it's working for ya that's really all that matters here! Especially if your BW bears it out. One man's meat is another man's poison, so to speak! Different methods can produce similar results and in this world personal preference and knowing how your own body responds is paramount.

[Lunk1]

Lmao,you just dont get it Mikey. I understand how it works,Thats why after 30 plus cycles my system is still functioning normally....

Off track here...30+ cycles and your HPTA functiones normally? No need for TRT. What are your off cycle test levels??? Age?