injection question

[qkcam]

Hi
keep getting a tiny little air bubble at the needle end of the syringe that i can't get to go out ..tried tapping and pushing some testo through the needle but that small air bubble wont go away.. i only see it after i change needles.. am i doing something wrong? also when i aspirate i do always get air.. i am confused and have heard mixed info about getting air into the syringe and then injecting it IM..

clarity would be good.. as well as confidence as i always seem to get a bit of anxiety-
thanks

[austinite]

Don't worry about bubbles. Just aspirate.

[Lunk1]

Nothing wrongwith the air bubble...many of us draw in a small amount of air on purpose to get all of the compound out of the pin.

While aspirating you will often see air bubbles pulled in but not always. As long as there is no blood RUSHING in..go ahead!

[BluPhin]

I'm a relatively new member and half way through my first cycle, so I'm not trying to pass myself off as more knowledgeable than veteran members. But I have done an extensive amount of research into intramuscular injections since it was the biggest sticking point for me to execute a cycle. According to the most recent medical literature as described by World Health Organization, there is no need to evacuate all air bubbles out of the syringe prior to injection. In fact, they claim that up to 3cc of air injected would not cause death. Another myth that they dispel is that you must aspirate prior to injecting the contents of the syringe. The fact is that aspiration only contributes to PIP. The vessels that you may inject into in IM injection are so small that they do not have the flow capacity to affect the contents of the syringe going directly into bloodstream.

Bottomline: Don't worry about bubbles and do not aspirate the syringe.

[austinite]

^ yeah. Over 20 CC's IV before any concern.

[Tron3219]

I've blown the skin on my hand up like a balloon on accident with the exhaust of a pneumatic ratchet lol

-TroN-

[jwws9999]

Hi Q, how' are you feeling. What dosage and method of injecting are you on these days. My wife is switching from the cream to the injections

[Lunk1]

I'm a relatively new member and half way through my first cycle, so I'm not trying to pass myself off as more knowledgeable than veteran members. But I have done an extensive amount of research into intramuscular injections since it was the biggest sticking point for me to execute a cycle. According to the most recent medical literature as described by World Health Organization, there is no need to evacuate all air bubbles out of the syringe prior to injection. In fact, they claim that up to 3cc of air injected would not cause death. Another myth that they dispel is that you must aspirate prior to injecting the contents of the syringe. The fact is that aspiration only contributes to PIP. The vessels that you may inject into in IM injection are so small that they do not have the flow capacity to affect the contents of the syringe going directly into bloodstream.

Bottomline: Don't worry about bubbles and do not aspirate the syringe.

Aspirating is a must...the first time you see blood rush in your pin you will be glad you did.

[BluPhin]

My niece is currently enrolled as a nursing student at UW. They are now teaching students not to aspirate IM or subQ injections. The nursing school describes IM aspiration as "old school" technique. It seems that aspiration technique was based more on theory or fear than data. Current studies show that there is no data to support the claim that aspiration is necessary. Aspiration may and usually does contribute to PIP. If there is a possibility that you may make an intra-arterial injection, then you may feel safer with aspirating. But even then there is no medical evidence to support its benefit or necessity. I make all my injections in glute and soon in ventro so I'm not worried about intra-arterial. It is cumbersome to aspirate in these positions for me. Because modern medicine tells me I don't need to, I don't. If it makes you fell warm and fuzzy inside when you aspirate, then go ahead. I'm just trying to minimize PIP, so I don't aspirate, ever.

[MickeyKnox]

My niece is currently enrolled as a nursing student at UW. They are now teaching students not to aspirate IM or subQ injections. The nursing school describes IM aspiration as "old school" technique. It seems that aspiration technique was based more on theory or fear than data. Current studies show that there is no data to support the claim that aspiration is necessary. Aspiration may and usually does contribute to PIP. If there is a possibility that you may make an intra-arterial injection, then you may feel safer with aspirating. But even then there is no medical evidence to support its benefit or necessity. I make all my injections in glute and soon in ventro so I'm not worried about intra-arterial. It is cumbersome to aspirate in these positions for me. Because modern medicine tells me I don't need to, I don't. If it makes you fell warm and fuzzy inside when you aspirate, then go ahead. I'm just trying to minimize PIP, so I don't aspirate, ever.

Are you sure you or your niece didn't misunderstand and that these new guidelines are just for Vaccines and SubQ?

[BluPhin]

She may have misunderstood. I don't know what they told her , I only know what she told me. However, I have researched the topic extensively on the internet due to my own discomfort with self injecting. I have found that both IM and subQ are included in the articles i've read on omitting aspiration. It is true that these articles centered on vaccines probably because they were written and referenced by doctors for WHO, CDC, AMA, etc. My niece confirmed that is was for all injections citing that because blood is aspirated into syringe does not place point of injection into blood vessel.

[crazy mike]

My niece is currently enrolled as a nursing student at UW. They are now teaching students not to aspirate IM or subQ injections. The nursing school describes IM aspiration as "old school" technique. It seems that aspiration technique was based more on theory or fear than data. Current studies show that there is no data to support the claim that aspiration is necessary. Aspiration may and usually does contribute to PIP. If there is a possibility that you may make an intra-arterial injection, then you may feel safer with aspirating. But even then there is no medical evidence to support its benefit or necessity. I make all my injections in glute and soon in ventro so I'm not worried about intra-arterial. It is cumbersome to aspirate in these positions for me. Because modern medicine tells me I don't need to, I don't. If it makes you fell warm and fuzzy inside when you aspirate, then go ahead. I'm just trying to minimize PIP, so I don't aspirate, ever.

Aspirating is a must...the first time you see blood rush in your pin you will be glad you did.

I will tell you my experience. When IV you must see that you are in so you don't miss and inject into you muscle and other tissue. With some compounds this can be very painful. And you waste the chemical. When drawing blood they have vacuumed equipment so it registers. Now I don't ever aspirate. In all my years and with everything I've done IM I have never done this tech this and NEVER had a problem. The problem I had a month or so ago was the high strength of the compound & or infection but aspirating had nothing to do with it. You have tiny vessels that will bleed a little and stop. and that is usually do to the ones you hit going in or pulling out along the way. My father was a doc and I was with him as a kid many, many times when he gave IM shots at home and at the hospital and I NEVER saw him aspirate IM. I have been in and out of the hospital in my 61 years, I have been in the Sanitariums where they IM and never, never have I seen some one aspirate while doing IM. Never have I (me) seen this. Just for me guys. That's my 2 cents and my experience. ...crazy mike

[BluPhin]

^^^^Its interesting that even in the old days when your dad was a doc, he didn't aspirate for IM. It seems that it was the standard procedure years ago, but he must have known a better way.

Like I said before, I'm not real comfortable with sticking needles in my body. But I have no reservations whatsoever about omitting the aspiration step. Personally it doesn't make sense to me and apparently modern medicine feels the same way. Keep it simple stupid

[DINKS]

Aspirate is a must !!!!! Safety first prevention is better than the cure !

[qkcam]

thanks for all the good discussion on this topic- it's great.. what is PIP? my endo suggested i try some injections in my delts she said no need to aspirate there..who knows.. always seems to be two sides for every discussion but i would rather be safe then sorry.
jwws - i am taking 15mg a week currently... and i actually feel really good considering i had "chronic fatigue" for a long time and couldn't function ..i am now excited to get out of the house and to be back at the gym and have energy left over afterword.. am considering going back up to 20 as i am not having much sex drive really but that isn't important.. really but would like to feel a bit stronger... it has been a life saver for me- i would love to hear your wife's experience.
thanks everyone for your help and feedback.. now i just need to lose 20lbs..

[RA]

I always put a certain amount of air into it to push all the oil out completely. No worries with bubbles.

[Bonaparte]

You can't fit enough air in a syringe to hurt you, even IV.

Aspirating is always a good idea. This new CDC push away from aspirating is with vaccines and other drugs, not oils. Injecting oil into a vein sucks ass.

[RA]

You can't fit enough air in a syringe to hurt you, even IV.

Aspirating is always a good idea. This new CDC push away from aspirating is with vaccines and other drugs, not oils. Injecting oil into a vein sucks ass.

Agreed on the first part. Second part, not so much. I have hit a vein before but its been very rare and it doesn't kill you. Hit the right spots and its all good.

[austinite]

You can't fit enough air in a syringe to hurt you, even IV.

Aspirating is always a good idea. This new CDC push away from aspirating is with vaccines and other drugs, not oils. Injecting oil into a vein sucks ass.

[MuscleInk]

My niece is currently enrolled as a nursing student at UW. They are now teaching students not to aspirate IM or subQ injections. The nursing school describes IM aspiration as "old school" technique. It seems that aspiration technique was based more on theory or fear than data. Current studies show that there is no data to support the claim that aspiration is necessary. Aspiration may and usually does contribute to PIP. If there is a possibility that you may make an intra-arterial injection, then you may feel safer with aspirating. But even then there is no medical evidence to support its benefit or necessity. I make all my injections in glute and soon in ventro so I'm not worried about intra-arterial. It is cumbersome to aspirate in these positions for me. Because modern medicine tells me I don't need to, I don't. If it makes you fell warm and fuzzy inside when you aspirate, then go ahead. I'm just trying to minimize PIP, so I don't aspirate, ever.

There's quite a difference between someone training in the healthcare field to administer drugs via IV, IM, SubQ, and other routes and steroid users, many of whom are inexperienced with needles.

MuscleInk

[austinite]

There's quite a difference between someone training in the healthcare field to administer drugs via IV, IM, SubQ, and other routes and steroid users, many of whom are inexperienced with needles.

MuscleInk

They're also mostly never injecting anything that couldn't be handled IV.

[MuscleInk]

They're also mostly never injecting anything that couldn't be handled IV.

Yes, correct. The point I was trying to emphasize is that healthcare providers who make a living injecting substances are far more skilled than many steroid users - particularly novice users - and are better trained at injections (regardless of the route). For someone to make a sweeping claim that "since healthcare providers don't aspirate, why should we" is ridiculous.

I've done thousands of injections. When it comes to pinning gear, I always have and always will aspirate even though I can tell when I'm in a vein or not most times.

MuscleInk

[austinite]

Yes, correct. The point I was trying to emphasize is that healthcare providers who make a living injecting substances are far more skilled than many steroid users - particularly novice users - and are better trained at injections (regardless of the route). For someone to make a sweeping claim that "since healthcare providers don't aspirate, why should we" is ridiculous.

I've done thousands of injections. When it comes to pinning gear, I always have and always will aspirate even though I can tell when I'm in a vein or not most times.

MuscleInk

Absolutely agree.

[Lunk1]

Until someone can say why it's better NOT to aspirate then I will continue (*and PIP is not causes by aspirating)

[MickeyKnox]

thanks for all the good discussion on this topic- it's great.. what is PIP? my endo suggested i try some injections in my delts she said no need to aspirate there..who knows.. always seems to be two sides for every discussion but i would rather be safe then sorry.
jwws - i am taking 15mg a week currently... and i actually feel really good considering i had "chronic fatigue" for a long time and couldn't function ..i am now excited to get out of the house and to be back at the gym and have energy left over afterword.. am considering going back up to 20 as i am not having much sex drive really but that isn't important.. really but would like to feel a bit stronger... it has been a life saver for me- i would love to hear your wife's experience.
thanks everyone for your help and feedback.. now i just need to lose 20lbs..

Post Injection Pain.

[BluPhin]

My main contention with aspiration is based on my own observations receiving injections. That is, when a nurse fully penetrates the syringe into my delt I am watching as she depresses the plunger. The syringe is moving a fraction of a millimeter deeper, shallower, to the right, left, etc. Although she is a professional, she is moving slightly and so am I. The tip of the needle is no longer in the exact same point when she aspirated. She could have pulled a clean aspiration, but before all the syringe is emptied into my arm the tip moved a fraction of a millimeter and now is in a vessel. I know that when I self inject the needle is moving more than when the nurse injects. No one can say with any certainty that the tip of the needle did not move into a vessel subsequent to a clean aspiration. You could hit a vessel by moving the thickness of a hair.

[BluPhin]

Im not implying that aspiration causes PIP. However, it does contribute to post injection pain based on some medical studies.

http://www.nursingtimes.net/nursing-...952004.article