Beginner cycle questions

[Yosh73]

I have a question regarding a beginner's cycle of test, I will have three possibilities here.
The first being:

Test E/C (either one): at 300mg wk 1-2 then 350-375 wk 8-10 for a total of 10 week cycle.

Second:
Test Prop 100eod wk 1-2, test c 200mg/wk week1-2 (although here i'm iffy with how much to run for the first two weeks with the prop as the prop is the kickstart) week 3-10 350-375mg/wk test C.

Third:

Test C 300mg/week wk 1-2, 350mg/week week 3-7, 375mg/week week 7-10 All the while running a moderate dose of EQ for quality muscle gains combined with test gains.


Things to consider: This is my first injectable cycle.

Previous cycle history:
Epivar: 40/40/40/40/50 with Erase 3 pills a day, tribulus 3 a day, D-aspartic acid 3400mg/day, fenugreek 2 a day ( realize this is also a stupid pct but I wasn't on anything crazy so I felt fine after and I really only kept like 5 lbs of gain).

Anavar 8 weeks, 50/50/50/50/50/50/60/60 PCT 2 drops arimidex for 1-2 months (I realize this isn't much of a PCT but I kept some decent gains, roughly 10 pounds.


AI of arim on hand which will be included in cycle (not sure of dosing on this one cause IDK how much is in each drop (liquid formula)).

I will also be running HCG during the cycle because I think it will help with lowering the damaging affects to HPTA, as well as during PCT

Nolva/Clomid PCT with regular dosing protocol (30/30/20/20/20, 50/50/40/30) I believe somewhere like 200UI/week of HCG for PCT but not too sure. .

Stats:

Weight= 180-183lbs
Height= 6'1''
BF=15-17%
Age=20 years old
Diet=Paleo, but i'm keeping track of macros, and calories, roughly between 2500-2800 calories a day.

Training: 2 days on, 2 days off lifting, with Cardio (15 mins of HIIT or 60-70% MHR range on exercise bike or eliptical) usually doing 3-4 days of lifting a week with cardio days on off days, 3-4k jog/run with hill sprints as well.

[Beyazit]

Your cycle option are a train wreck, you seem to know nothing aboit PCT, AIs' or HCG and besidea all that you are 20 with excess BF!!!

You have at least 4 more years to grow, research and lose fat m8!!!

[motoxposse]

I have a question regarding a beginner's cycle of test, I will have three possibilities here.
The first being:

Test E/C (either one): at 300mg wk 1-2 then 350-375 wk 8-10 for a total of 10 week cycle.

Second:
Test Prop 100eod wk 1-2, test c 200mg/wk week1-2 (although here i'm iffy with how much to run for the first two weeks with the prop as the prop is the kickstart) week 3-10 350-375mg/wk test C.

Third:

Test C 300mg/week wk 1-2, 350mg/week week 3-7, 375mg/week week 7-10 All the while running a moderate dose of EQ for quality muscle gains combined with test gains.

Things to consider: This is my first injectable cycle.

Previous cycle history:
Epivar: 40/40/40/40/50 with Erase 3 pills a day, tribulus 3 a day, D-aspartic acid 3400mg/day, fenugreek 2 a day ( realize this is also a stupid pct but I wasn't on anything crazy so I felt fine after and I really only kept like 5 lbs of gain).

Anavar 8 weeks, 50/50/50/50/50/50/60/60 PCT 2 drops arimidex for 1-2 months (I realize this isn't much of a PCT but I kept some decent gains, roughly 10 pounds.

AI of arim on hand which will be included in cycle (not sure of dosing on this one cause IDK how much is in each drop (liquid formula)).

I will also be running HCG during the cycle because I think it will help with lowering the damaging affects to HPTA, as well as during PCT

Nolva/Clomid PCT with regular dosing protocol (30/30/20/20/20, 50/50/40/30) I believe somewhere like 200UI/week of HCG for PCT but not too sure. .

Stats:

Weight= 180-183lbs
Height= 6'1''
BF=15-17%
Age=20 years old
Diet=Paleo, but i'm keeping track of macros, and calories, roughly between 2500-2800 calories a day.

Training: 2 days on, 2 days off lifting, with Cardio (15 mins of HIIT or 60-70% MHR range on exercise bike or eliptical) usually doing 3-4 days of lifting a week with cardio days on off days, 3-4k jog/run with hill sprints as well.

Your to young and your test levels should be high enough to see some good gains with proper diet and training. I didn't even make it through your entire post before realizing you've already made big aas general usage mistakes (TEST IN EVERY CYCLE) including orals learn more read more and then when your 25ish apply what u learned.

[bigZthedestroyer]

Have you done blood work since your previous cycle?

[pipilas13]

Wait 3 years bro!You are too young to use steroids...

[Yosh73]

Have you done blood work since your previous cycle?

No I haven't.

[Yosh73]

Wait 3 years bro!You are too young to use steroids...

I've already entered the sauce

[Capebuffalo]

I've already entered the sauce

Good time to stop the sauce.

[Juced_porkchop]

Good time to stop the sauce.

agreed!
you are not finished development till about the age of 24-26, wait till them, because damage before then to developing systems can be for LIFE and un fixable...



besides waiting till about 25 , here is a beginner cycle:

wk 1-14 500mg teste ew (NO LESS THEN 12 WEEKS atleast)
wk1-15 AI: (i like letro at 0.25mg eod-e3d)
wk16-20 PCT : clomid 35-50mg ed and 10-20mg tamox ed

DONE

[songdog]

And beyond the cycle thing.Your diet stinks you are too light for a guy your size.Hit the diet section and learn how to eat.

[Provita]

Here we go again...

Please stop dude, leave the juice for another day.

Young and the steroids
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g-and-Steroids

Cycles gone wrong for the young
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...*#.UVw6M2QazTo

Just read this and think what you are doing.

At 20 you will have enough free test in your body to get gains natrually.

[Provita]

And beyond the cycle thing.Your diet stinks you are too light for a guy your size.Hit the diet section and learn how to eat.

Agree! If that is your stats after 2 cycles, you have not been eating real good. Or you started with no proper base at all.

[MickeyKnox]

Bad idea Yosh.

Hopefully if you stop now you may not do any harm to your Endocrine system. And that's something you never want to damage because the injuries can stay with you for life.

This site is chalked full of everything you want to know about AAS. But you have to do the reading so that you absorb the information. That’s the only way you'll educate yourself properly. Someone simply telling you what to take is irresponsible, at best. Nobody knows you like you know yourself. Make a sensible decision, be mature, and read until your eyes bleed. Only then will you have a fundamental idea of what you should begin with. And make sure your BF is down to around 15%. This is crucial so that the risk of unwanted side effects are reduced to a minimum. Some of the side effects can be downright nasty and play havoc on relationships.

Don't mess around with AAS unless you really have a grasp on what you're doing, and the associated health risks - or it will come back and bite you in the ass.

Check out the links Provita posted. Hopefully they will change your mind.

[Yosh73]

Bad idea Yosh.

Hopefully if you stop now you may not do any harm to your Endocrine system. And that's something you never want to damage because the injuries can stay with you for life.

This site is chalked full of everything you want to know about AAS. But you have to do the reading so that you absorb the information. That’s the only way you'll educate yourself properly. Someone simply telling you what to take is irresponsible, at best. Nobody knows you like you know yourself. Make a sensible decision, be mature, and read until your eyes bleed. Only then will you have a fundamental idea of what you should begin with. And make sure your BF is down to around 15%. This is crucial so that the risk of unwanted side effects are reduced to a minimum. Some of the side effects can be downright nasty and play havoc on relationships.

Don't mess around with AAS unless you really have a grasp on what you're doing, and the associated health risks - or it will come back and bite you in the ass.

Check out the links Provita posted. Hopefully they will change your mind.

When I said I've entered the sauce already I meant I took Anavar and that Epivar cycle, so I'd already experimented with AAS. I haven't done any injectables or any other prohormones besides those two at the doses I said. Anyways, I guess getting bloodwork done is a first step, to see what my natty test is at. I know what I'm doing nutritionally. I just haven't had that Dorian Yates self discipline. I'm thinking though if I've already run those two cycles and I have my balls, I can get boners, I blow pretty dece loads, I've been getting good gains at the gym since I cycled the var although my strength went down, I didn't feel any sides from var, and I know Arim wasn't a good PCT and isn't really a PCT but it's all I had my hands on so it's better than nothing. It will still help with bounceback better than taking nothing..

[MickeyKnox]

When I said I've entered the sauce already I meant I took Anavar and that Epivar cycle, so I'd already experimented with AAS. I haven't done any injectables or any other prohormones besides those two at the doses I said. Anyways, I guess getting bloodwork done is a first step, to see what my natty test is at. I know what I'm doing nutritionally. I just haven't had that Dorian Yates self discipline. I'm thinking though if I've already run those two cycles and I have my balls, I can get boners, I blow pretty dece loads, I've been getting good gains at the gym since I cycled the var although my strength went down, I didn't feel any sides from var, and I know Arim wasn't a good PCT and isn't really a PCT but it's all I had my hands on so it's better than nothing. It will still help with bounceback better than taking nothing..

I would stop what your doing and have bloodwork done. In the meantime, please take the time to educate yourself as you clearly do not know how important AI's and SERM's are, or their associated roles on cycle.

And please read this link when you get a moment.

Anavar - The Truth

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!#.UODpRKzX_fs

[Yosh73]

I would stop what your doing and have bloodwork done. In the meantime, please take the time to educate yourself as you clearly do not know how important AI's and SERM's are, or their associated roles on cycle.

And please read this link when you get a moment.

Anavar - The Truth

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!#.UODpRKzX_fs

First of all, i've read that. Second of all, I do know the associated importance of AI's and Serms. I've been doing mad research on this forum every single day since I ran my Anavar cycle, I literally stay up every night until 2 am doing research on this forum. That was 4 months ago. So I've been doing 4 months of research and I know the importance of all of these.

I feel like a beast right now anyways. I'm pretty sure my body's fine. I haven't had any ED problems, even if i'm wasted.

I don't appreciate getting shot down with every opportunity I take to get information from you guys. If you were really concerned about my well being and health you would be helping me out instead of shooting me down which would lead me to get random information from idiots around town and f**k myself over.

[Yosh73]

I would stop what your doing and have bloodwork done. In the meantime, please take the time to educate yourself as you clearly do not know how important AI's and SERM's are, or their associated roles on cycle.

And please read this link when you get a moment.

Anavar - The Truth

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!#.UODpRKzX_fs

I'm currently not on any AAS or PH. I am completely natural right now and have been since 4 months ago. I obviously don't have PCT protocol memorized from studying on this forum but when it comes down to it All I need to do is visit: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-Pheedno-s-PCT or any of the other stickies there to get a good idea.

[MickeyKnox]

Ok. Good luck.

[Capebuffalo]

Glad you have it all figured out Yosh. Do you know that years from now the effects of what your doing can show up. Some of these sides are not immediate.
What were your thoughts on this thread? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...*#.UVw6M2QazTo

[Yosh73]

Glad you have it all figured out Yosh. Do you know that years from now the effects of what your doing can show up. Some of these sides are not immediate.
What were your thoughts on this thread? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...*#.UVw6M2QazTo

I can't open the link Capebuffalo, gives me a 404 :S.

[Yosh73]

Ok. Good luck.

Thanks for the sarcasm, bro.

[Capebuffalo]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...*#.UVw6M2QazTo

[Yosh73]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...*#.UVw6M2QazTo

I have checked these out, almost all of them. It would kind of seem that most of these guys hadn't posted before, hadn't had any PCT protocol, doesn't seem like they knew what they were doing in general, etc.

Wouldn't this be a little bias to someone who is putting in effort to do a proper cycle with all precautions thought out and such?

[MickeyKnox]

When I said I've entered the sauce already I meant I took Anavar and that Epivar cycle, so I'd already experimented with AAS. I haven't done any injectables or any other prohormones besides those two at the doses I said. Anyways, I guess getting bloodwork done is a first step, to see what my natty test is at. I know what I'm doing nutritionally. I just haven't had that Dorian Yates self discipline. I'm thinking though if I've already run those two cycles and I have my balls, I can get boners, I blow pretty dece loads, I've been getting good gains at the gym since I cycled the var although my strength went down, I didn't feel any sides from var, and I know Arim wasn't a good PCT and isn't really a PCT but it's all I had my hands on so it's better than nothing. It will still help with bounceback better than taking nothing..

First of all, i've read that. Second of all, I do know the associated importance of AI's and Serms. I've been doing mad research on this forum every single day since I ran my Anavar cycle, I literally stay up every night until 2 am doing research on this forum. That was 4 months ago. So I've been doing 4 months of research and I know the importance of all of these.

I feel like a beast right now anyways. I'm pretty sure my body's fine. I haven't had any ED problems, even if i'm wasted.

I don't appreciate getting shot down with every opportunity I take to get information from you guys. If you were really concerned about my well being and health you would be helping me out instead of shooting me down which would lead me to get random information from idiots around town and f**k myself over.

I have checked these out, almost all of them. It would kind of seem that most of these guys hadn't posted before, hadn't had any PCT protocol, doesn't seem like they knew what they were doing in general, etc.

Wouldn't this be a little bias to someone who is putting in effort to do a proper cycle with all precautions thought out and such?

Thanks for the sarcasm, bro.

It wasn't sarcasm. I meant it.

[ChiveOn]

Instant gratification is a b*tch huh? Listen to the guys here. Just because you can get a boner doesn't mean you aren't hurting yourself 10 years down the road lol... Like damn man.
Even if you ignore us all because you MUST know more than the knowledgable and experienced members here...... Your cycles are a wreck. You use an AI ALWAYS. Not just on hand. And pick one fricken ester and dosage for Christ sake. Stop jumping around

[Capebuffalo]

I have checked these out, almost all of them. It would kind of seem that most of these guys hadn't posted before, hadn't had any PCT protocol, doesn't seem like they knew what they were doing in general, etc.

Wouldn't this be a little bias to someone who is putting in effort to do a proper cycle with all precautions thought out and such?

Your kidding right? You can lead a horse to water.........
As Mickey said. Good Luck. I'm out

[Beyazit]

Don't do something you will regret for the rest of your life m8, why can't you wait?

[Yosh73]

Instant gratification is a b*tch huh? Listen to the guys here. Just because you can get a boner doesn't mean you aren't hurting yourself 10 years down the road lol... Like damn man.
Even if you ignore us all because you MUST know more than the knowledgable and experienced members here...... Your cycles are a wreck. You use an AI ALWAYS. Not just on hand. And pick one fricken ester and dosage for Christ sake. Stop jumping around

It is haha. And I am trying to listen to the guys that's why I'm posting this! I'm trying to get the knowledge I don't see much support though it just sounds like a "no you're too young and dumb" like I assume by the time I'm 30-40 ill be having these issues as an older man anyways, isn't it a part of life where guys just start getting ed, low test, and all that stuff as they age? Like a natural part of life? I understand I'm in the prime of my life and to answer your question as to why I want to cycle test ill answer because I'm curious as to how much I'll gain, what I'll look like, if I can get huger in that 10-12 weeks on. I'm just a curious kid I mean I've heard countless stories of dudes who need hrt or trt later in life cause of their low test. Most of these guys blame it on their young cycling but if I were to cycle at 24-25 wouldn't it affect me just as much in my 30s-40s?Wouldn't the effects of a test cycle affect ur natty test at any age??

[Juced_porkchop]

First of all, i've read that. Second of all, I do know the associated importance of AI's and Serms. I've been doing mad research on this forum every single day since I ran my Anavar cycle, I literally stay up every night until 2 am doing research on this forum. That was 4 months ago. So I've been doing 4 months of research and I know the importance of all of these.

I feel like a beast right now anyways. I'm pretty sure my body's fine. I haven't had any ED problems, even if i'm wasted.

I don't appreciate getting shot down with every opportunity I take to get information from you guys. If you were really concerned about my well being and health you would be helping me out instead of shooting me down which would lead me to get random information from idiots around town and f**k myself over.

we are warning you, and you are ignoring. like here: "I feel like a beast right now anyways. I'm pretty sure my body's fine. I haven't had any ED problems, even if i'm wasted. "

you dont/wont know till down the line, you are NOT finished development, to do more aas just cuz you "feel fine" is not a good idea.
you already did alot of research, so i hope you continue on it, focus on supps for now while you research and wait till around 25.

we are (for the most part) telling you your are doing something wrong, and you dont want to hear that.... what do we gain? nothing! we are trying to open eyes onto stuff you DONT yet know and are just grasping now.

good luck in w/e you do.

[Juced_porkchop]

It is haha. And I am trying to listen to the guys that's why I'm posting this! I'm trying to get the knowledge I don't see much support though it just sounds like a "no you're too young and dumb" like I assume by the time I'm 30-40 ill be having these issues as an older man anyways, isn't it a part of life where guys just start getting ed, low test, and all that stuff as they age? Like a natural part of life? I understand I'm in the prime of my life and to answer your question as to why I want to cycle test ill answer because I'm curious as to how much I'll gain, what I'll look like, if I can get huger in that 10-12 weeks on. I'm just a curious kid I mean I've heard countless stories of dudes who need hrt or trt later in life cause of their low test. Most of these guys blame it on their young cycling but if I were to cycle at 24-25 wouldn't it affect me just as much in my 30s-40s?Wouldn't the effects of a test cycle affect ur natty test at any age??

because that IS the blunt jist of it....

[Juced_porkchop]

and no it wont effect you the same at 25-26 because at that tiem your systems would have been developed!
you are missing some logic here, sorry.
will you still have low T when you get old? possibly but its more likly to you if you use aas while developing and may mess up you ever having kids....

im out, good luck

T.O. out

[Yosh73]

and no it wont effect you the same at 25-26 because at that tiem your systems would have been developed!
you are missing some logic here, sorry.
will you still have low T when you get old? possibly but its more likly to you if you use aas while developing and may mess up you ever having kids....

im out, good luck

T.O. out

Reppin T.dot OOO first off. Second I understand where you guys are coming from now. It's just it amazes me that I can get such bad effects from one cycle of AAS which would be a moderate cycle nothing crazy but I suppose a cycle is a cycle whether moderate or not. I Guess I could really just stick with my naturalness and supplement with D-aspartic acid, trib, fenugreek, and the sorts until I am a little older. I do understand that I can get some wicked gains naturally. I am getting my Bloodwork done just to see what my test is like currently. So should I just take the AI arimidex I bought for my cycle ? just for the hell of the + test? I mean it would help with gains cause of the + in free test. Yeah I guess I'm not really ready for it yet. Too much shit to worry about with AIs and SERMS and On cycle shit its just to much to worry about at this point I guess. + I think I have a decent body right now and the only reason I wanted to do it was just for the simple hell of it, get some gains and be like yeah, this is sweet. But there's no point if i'll be f**#$d for a while afterwards, or permanently. I also have heard AAS have no affect on male's ability to have children, only in females. I do have time to develop I suppose and I think it'll be a personal challenge for me to achieve 190+ naturally with 13% BF if I can't do it without AAS I will know I let myself down. There's no point currently I suppose.

I have 2 bottles I bought after my ANAVAR cycle of Winny tabs 90 tabs a bottle at 25mg/tab I'm kinda stuck with this now.. I guess I'll flush it or something. It was pretty expensive. I was thinking about using like 50mg/day 2 week cycles cause I heard its not as bad for you but I would like your guys input on that before I even consider it.

[sizzlechest]

Bro you are making it to complicated for a first cycle. Run a test blend like sustanon, Omandren or T 400 that already has a blend of tests in it. Run it at 500 mg a week and that should do you fine. As far as EQ goes it will give you quality muscle but you need 600-800 mg a week min. You can keep the test at the same 500mg. Your results will be amazing.

[Lunk1]

Bro you are making it to complicated for a first cycle. Run a test blend like sustanon, Omandren or T 400 that already has a blend of tests in it. Run it at 500 mg a week and that should do you fine. As far as EQ goes it will give you quality muscle but you need 600-800 mg a week min. You can keep the test at the same 500mg. Your results will be amazing.

Holy Shit...you been here since 04 and still hand out crappy advice...hopefully another 9 years here will teach you something.

[Yosh73]

Well just to let all of you know my situation. My roommate and best friend for three years (met first day of uni) got me into working out. I knew little to nothing before. I have taken the last three years to build a decent base (despite the two previous cycles of PH and that Anavar cycle) I got pretty decent gains off of this. I however have not had the discipline he has, and I have not built the base he built (trained since grade 10, 5-6 years) and his trainer for a year was a Pro BB who taught him a lot regarding discipline and all.

he's roughly 200 lbs, 6'2'' with around 10% BF He's pretty jacked and has great form with his training, great discipline with his training and has unbelievable amount of knowledge for his age. Despite also being 21 he has much more of a reason to run gear than I do at my stats and discipline. I am sorry to all those I was being pigheaded with. I am now understanding my ways are wrong. I do however thank you all for being consistent with telling me i'm wrong, and for those of you who are just ready to tell me cycles, I appreciate it, but you guys should be more considerate like the others.

Although a nice input into my winny 2week cycle question would be nice.

[Yosh73]

Holy Shit...you been here since 04 and still hand out crappy advice...hopefully another 9 years here will teach you something.

LOoooooooooool

I'm a newb and I knew it was crappy advice right off the bat.

[Lunk1]

[QUOTE=Yosh73;6479400]Well just to let all of you know my situation. My roommate and best friend for three years (met first day of uni) got me into working out. I knew little to nothing before. I have taken the last three years to build a decent base (despite the two previous cycles of PH and that Anavar cycle) I got pretty decent gains off of this. I however have not had the discipline he has, and I have not built the base he built (trained since grade 10, 5-6 years) and his trainer for a year was a Pro BB who taught him a lot regarding discipline and all.

he's roughly 200 lbs, 6'2'' with around 10% BF He's pretty jacked and has great form with his training, great discipline with his training and has unbelievable amount of knowledge for his age. Despite also being 21 he has much more of a reason to run gear than I do at my stats and discipline. I am sorry to all those I was being pigheaded with. I am now understanding my ways are wrong. I do however thank you all for being consistent with telling me i'm wrong, and for those of you who are just ready to tell me cycles, I appreciate it, but you guys should be more considerate like the others.

Although a nice input into my winny 2week cycle question would be nice.[/QUOTE]

Absolute waste of time...

I hope your next post is in the nutrition forum getting some advice on diet, then to the workout forum getting a routine squared away. We will love to help you along your journey....

[Yosh73]

I'll check out the nutrition forum but I'm pretty sure my diet is quite good and my training is quite good however I'm still going to check these forums out.


So the word on 2 week cycles is they're bs eh? Yeah multiple 2 week cycles probably wouldn't be good if it takes four to five weeks for your body to get used to a foreign invader (an AAS) then two week cycle will be garbage. I'm assuming you'd gain something from the introduction of AAS into ur cycle but it shouldn't be much than 1-3 pounds at most if I'm not mistaken.

[Lunk1]

I'll check out the nutrition forum but I'm pretty sure my diet is quite good and my training is quite good however I'm still going to check these forums out.


So the word on 2 week cycles is they're bs eh? Yeah multiple 2 week cycles probably wouldn't be good if it takes four to five weeks for your body to get used to a foreign invader (an AAS) then two week cycle will be garbage. I'm assuming you'd gain something from the introduction of AAS into ur cycle but it shouldn't be much than 1-3 pounds at most if I'm not mistaken.

It doesnt work that way and would be a complete waste of time.

Everyone says their diet is good (except me, mine sucks)

[Yosh73]

It doesnt work that way and would be a complete waste of time.

Everyone says their diet is good (except me, mine sucks)

Everyone can have a good diet but it may not be optimal. I'm going to check out the nutrition forum. The issue is I just eat natural foods, ie paleo. No legumes or grains either just fruit veges meat nuts shakes.. So the bulk of my carbs comes from fruit or sweet potato