AI prohibits gains

**pumping_iron** · 04-06-2013, 05:33 PM

Hey jw if anyone with a great deal of experience thinks that running an AI (I WILL BE running anastrozole .25mg eod) hinders gains in any way?

**lifeofdefiance** · 04-06-2013, 06:37 PM

doubtful, but if you don't use it you'll get bitch tits, so it's a pretty clear decision

**MickeyKnox** · 04-06-2013, 07:26 PM

You would have to knock it back quite a bit and remain there for awhile for your gains to be affected. I recall a study on something very similar and I may have some clinical data on this.

**pumping_iron** · 04-06-2013, 08:21 PM

Like how much? And that would be superb!

**cj111** · 04-06-2013, 08:23 PM

doubtful, but if you don't use it you'll get bitch tits, so it's a pretty clear decision

That's a pretty broad statement, and not 100% true by any means

**boz** · 04-06-2013, 08:36 PM

To my understanding i know it can affect strength, not gains.

**pumping_iron** · 04-06-2013, 08:40 PM

I agree cj111. I know loads of guys who juice with no AI and NONE have any signs of gyno. But o just feel like for my first cycle if I'm only running test and my body isnt gyno prone in ANY way.. Ive never been fat and have always had to work to not be skinny until recently. 205 10% bf.

**pumping_iron** · 04-06-2013, 08:41 PM

Don't strengthamd gains go hand in hand? Not saying you have to bench 500 pounds to be big but I think strength is huge

**Lunk1** · 04-06-2013, 08:47 PM

Not enough that most ppl here would EVER notice and not to a degree that it's worth the risk of elevated E2 levels

**pumping_iron** · 04-06-2013, 08:49 PM

U mean estrogen? And doesn't it help with cholestorol? I could be completely wrong

**cj111** · 04-06-2013, 08:53 PM

I'm no expert, but wouldn't it boil down to your cycle? I'm just curious cause I see people running the same AI no matter what compounds they are on

**Lunk1** · 04-06-2013, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by pumping_iron

U mean estrogen? And doesn't it help with cholestorol? I could be completely wrong

There are several types of estrogen...the one we are most concerned with is E2 levels. Yes it would help with cholestorol and BP

**Lunk1** · 04-06-2013, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by cj111

I'm no expert, but wouldn't it boil down to your cycle? I'm just curious cause I see people running the same AI no matter what compounds they are on

No..the cycle really wouldnt matter. Test doses may change the amount of AI needed but the type of AI often comes down to personal choice and what ppl feel works best for them. Mick has a great thread on AI's

**pumping_iron** · 04-06-2013, 08:59 PM

Yeah that's what I thought. And bp would probably help me with acne as I had it in my teen years. Def gonna run my anastrozole eod. I discontinue it at the same time as my injections right? No need to run through pct?

**Lunk1** · 04-06-2013, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by pumping_iron

Yeah that's what I thought. And bp would probably help me with acne as I had it in my teen years. Def gonna run my anastrozole eod. I discontinue it at the same time as my injections right? No need to run through pct?

Acne is mostly caused by hormon imbalances. This is why teens are so acne prone. Their hormones are all over the fukn place.

If you are running short esters stop at last pin. Long ester stop before PCT starts

**Sgt. Hartman** · 04-06-2013, 09:06 PM

When taking supra physiological doses of testosterone it's almost a given that estrogen will be elevated well beyond reference range which causes more health risks than I'm going to list. Whether or not someone is prone to gyno is not directly related to whether someone is prone to high estrogen levels. I've had E2 levels in the high 300's and barely had slightly itchy nips. That doesn't mean though that just because there was no gyno that the excess e wasn't causing a multitude of other health risks.

Bottoming out your e levels will inhibit gains but having elevated e levels will do absolutely nothing to enhance gains, only create unnecessary health issues. The whole point is to use an AI on cycle to maintain healthy reference range estrogen levels.

**pumping_iron** · 04-06-2013, 09:11 PM

So:
Test c 500mg/wk 1-15
Anastrozole .25 mg eod 1-17
Nolva 40/20/20/20 18-21

That what u meant by before pct for the long ester?

**crazy mike** · 04-06-2013, 09:59 PM

I have some gyno (boobs) and I wish I knew what I was doing years ago. I would rather give up some small amount of gain then to risk it again. The problem is keeping abreast (no pun) of your BW and E2 levels at all times. I think I crashed my E2 and it's not fun...bad news , but if I had to do it all over again I would still rather risk the crash E2 then to get bitch tits. That aint cool at all. Then what ? So for everyone new, get educated be careful, pay attention and give in a little to be safer then sorry. ...crazy mike

**Lunk1** · 04-06-2013, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by pumping_iron

So:
Test c 500mg/wk 1-15
Anastrozole .25 mg eod 1-17
Nolva 40/20/20/20 18-21

That what u meant by before pct for the long ester?

Yes...and I read your other thread and would suggest the clomid if you can. They work on diff. receptors and can really aid in recovery. I understand being cash strapped...believe me. But the guys are right...maybe hold off till you have everything and have the funds to support the cycle with the proper nutrition

**pumping_iron** · 04-06-2013, 10:11 PM

Yeah I see what you're saying and I could afford it for this cycle. but I'm not ignorant. I realize ill be on gear until my lifting days r over once I start. It's a marathon not a sprint. I can't afford all that plus protein/creatine/bcaas/fish oils/multis/joint support etc. Not to mention the most important FOOD! plus my gym membership (pricy). Not everyone can live NOT. on a budget.

**Lunk1** · 04-07-2013, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by pumping_iron

Yeah I see what you're saying and I could afford it for this cycle. but I'm not ignorant. I realize ill be on gear until my lifting days r over once I start. It's a marathon not a sprint. I can't afford all that plus protein/creatine/bcaas/fish oils/multis/joint support etc. Not to mention the most important FOOD! plus my gym membership (pricy). Not everyone can live NOT. on a budget.

Your preaching to the choir my man. I had to wait 6 months with gear in hand before I had a few xtra bucks for my AI and PCT. Part of being a RESPONSABLE aas user is not making steroids a priority of things in life that should obviosly be more important. There are guys here who have had to wait years because they wanted to have kids first or guys that have had to quit because their spouse didnt agree with their usage. It's all about priorities, if this isn't going to be a $ making venture then it takes a back seat to life

**pumping_iron** · 04-07-2013, 08:55 AM

True. Good points.

**jimmyinkedup** · 04-07-2013, 10:47 AM

AI prohibits prostate cancer and risk of cardiac event is a more appropriate contention.
As far as inhibiting gains - does it? I mean does it really?
Estrogen Is supposed to improve androgen receptor sensitivity or responsiveness to androgens. Do we know that ability is effected or reduced if estrogen is maintained in normal range (which IMO should be the goal)- no we dont. Also we need to look at the effect exogenous androgens exert on the Androgen Receptor as it is. Androgen Receptors only have a life span of about 6 hours, This means the body is constantly producing more, When exogenous androgens are introduced that life span is increased to 9 hours, Also the production rate of new androgen receptors is almost doubled as well. So again with the increase in AR production and the increase in AR life span while on cycle, with estrogen still present to perform its vital functions in the body - I honestly do not believe it will effect your gains. If it does - the cost surely isn't worth the benefit.