Another First Cycle Thread, A few questions

**TakeThePlunger** · 04-10-2013, 07:50 AM

The first thing I noticed in my research is that there are a lot of opinions when it comes to gear, ancillaries, PCT. And that two very knowledgeable people on any given forum might passionately disagree about certain things. I tried to focus on threads where people were civil and used science to back up their theories.

Anyway, that's enough of an intro for now. Here are my stats and my proposed cycle:

Age: 17 (just kidding, I'm 29)
Wt: 167
Ht: 5'7"
BF%: ~18%

Lifts:
Bench: 1RM 230 (probably a tad bit higher, havent maxed out in a few weeks)
Squats: usually do 2 sets of 225 ass-to-grass, 8-12 reps
DL: usually do 275 8 reps, 1-2 sets

(Squats and DL weights listed are not 1RM's!!!)

I train usually 3-4 days a week for about an hour. I go for hypertrophy.

So, as you can see I'm not weak for my weight, but I realize I'm not at my genetic potential. *Gasp!*

Yes, I know in some people's minds this makes me lazy, reckless, a retard, deserving of a smack in the nuts, etc. But I want size and I've decided to go the PED route.

I don't plan on waiting much longer before I start. (2-3 weeks likely)

**Goals:**

Gain as much muscle as possible without putting on much more than 5% bodyfat during cycle. I'm looking for mostly lean gains, but I want to get bigger and am okay with a little extra fat.

**Plans:**

1.5-3 week cut. Try and get around 15% bf, lower if possible. Via morning cardio, lower carbs, lower calories, HIIT. (right now 2500-rest days, 3200 training days, I'll probably cut about 300 off that) Just adding morning cardio will probably do a lot for me because I'm lucky enough to be naturally lean as long as I eat right.

**Gear:**

After getting into the nitty gritty of side effects and how steroids worked I've spent most of my time researching what cycle to take and what ancillaries to use.

Right now I have two proposed cycles, which are pretty basic and common 1st timers:

1) Typical recommended for first timers:

Weeks 1-12: Test E - 500 mg/wk (Mon/Thu)
Weeks 1-12: Aromasin 6mg/day
Weeks 2-12: 500IU/Week HCG (Mon/Thu)

PCT:

Weeks 15-16: Nolva 40mg/ed

Weeks 17-18: Nolva 20mg/ed

2) Same as above but adding low dose D-bol first 3-4 weeks

Weeks 1-4: D-Bol 25mg/ed (broken up into twice or three times a day)

I'll probably do the first cycle instead of this, although it is tempting because the extra compound (and one so reputable as d-bol) will obviously result in extra muscle gain.

__________________________________________________ _________
I plan on using aromasin because a lot of people seem to really prefer it over arimidex . I found some people who say, take either one, doesn't matter. I found no one who strongly recommended adex over aromasin. Basically instead of messing with the receptors, aromasin attaches to estrogen and destroys it completely. Arimidex may cause a rebound effect of estrogen when you go off it, but Aromasin isn't known to do that because of the way it works. There is a lot more to read about the differences and why aromasin is better, but that's just some very basic info off the top of my head.

**Questions:**

I've been reading that if I take HCG during I can keep my HPTA good to go more or less during the cycle. (And keep my nuts nice and plump like the two hairy hard-boiled eggs that they are)

I've read the following benefits/opinions on this:

*Makes PCT and recovery quicker

*Makes coming off a cycle have less of a depressing effect on libido and mood

*Won't have to add Clomid during PCT

Probably my main question is about the Clomid as part of PCT. I know a lot of people recommend the clomid/nolva PCT that I see everywhere online.

With HCG in the mix, will I need the Clomid in PCT?

Another question that I've seen answered a million times with a few different opinions is, how much more should I eat? If I am eating clean could I add 500 calories to a cycle like this without getting fat?

Even though there are about a million threads on the internets about it, I'd love to hear about any experiences first-timers had with a d-bol, test cycle, good or bad.

__________________________________________________ _________

Anyway, I'm probably leaning towards the first cycle (without d-bol) and if anything I might boost the test by 100 mg if I'm side-effect free (fingers crossed) the last few weeks and see how that makes me feel.

Thanks for any input guys.

**Beyazit** · 04-10-2013, 08:21 AM

No need to up the test e, 500mg is more than enough for the first time, imo I would use clomid just to be on the safe side and yes adding aroun 500-1000 clean cals sounds g2m

But...

Would you ever think of starting such a cycle after doing some cardio (enough to drop under at least 15% BF) like maybe a little over a month cause it would give you a lot of benefits in your cycle like lover estrogen which is very important!

And yes with aromasin but not 6mg, a whole pill is usually 25mg and you split that into two which gives you 12,5mg ed, for the first week you go eod...

Last of all, drop the d-bol m8, for your golden cycle, go easy on your liver!

Cheers,

-Z-

**ScotchGuard02** · 04-10-2013, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by TakeThePlunger;64***11

The first thing I noticed in my research is that there are a lot of opinions when it comes to gear, ancillaries, PCT. And that two very knowledgeable people on any given forum might passionately disagree about certain things. I tried to focus on threads where people were civil and used science to back up their theories.

Anyway, that's enough of an intro for now. Here are my stats and my proposed cycle:

Age: 17 (just kidding, I'm 29) LOL, that's awesome. I saw my buddies getting huge in High School I often wondered how they increase their bench by 150lbs in one year.
Wt: 167
Ht: 5'7"
BF%: ~18%

Lifts:
Bench: 1RM 230 (probably a tad bit higher, havent maxed out in a few weeks)
Squats: usually do 2 sets of 225 ass-to-grass, 8-12 reps
DL: usually do 275 8 reps, 1-2 sets

(Squats and DL weights listed are not 1RM's!!!)

I train usually 3-4 days a week for about an hour. I go for hypertrophy.Good on you. If you're not going hard, why go to they gym? On cycle, I could lift every day really hard and still recover to train again the next day.

So, as you can see I'm not weak for my weight, but I realize I'm not at my genetic potential. *Gasp!*

Yes, I know in some people's minds this makes me lazy, reckless, a retard, deserving of a smack in the nuts, etc. But I want size and I've decided to go the PED route.

I don't plan on waiting much longer before I start. (2-3 weeks likely)

**Goals:**

Gain as much muscle as possible without putting on much more than 5% bodyfat during cycle. I'm looking for mostly lean gains, but I want to get bigger and am okay with a little extra fat. You're gonna gain some fat with muscle, that's just the way it is. You can control muscle/fat ratio that put on by your diet and cardio.

**Plans:**

1.5-3 week cut. Try and get around 15% bf, lower if possible. Via morning cardio, lower carbs, lower calories, HIIT. (right now 2500-rest days, 3200 training days, I'll probably cut about 300 off that) Just adding morning cardio will probably do a lot for me because I'm lucky enough to be naturally lean as long as I eat right. It takes 3000 calorie deficit to lose 1 pound. 300 calorie deficit for 2 weeks will give you a 2lb loss, theoretically. Don't worry about cutting, it's a waste of time right up front. Just clean up your diet and do some cardio and just start your cycle.

**Gear:**

After getting into the nitty gritty of side effects and how steroids worked I've spent most of my time researching what cycle to take and what ancillaries to use.

Right now I have two proposed cycles, which are pretty basic and common 1st timers:

1) Typical recommended for first timers:

Weeks 1-12: Test E - 500 mg/wk (Mon/Thu) This is good
Weeks 1-12: Aromasin 6mg/day I like adex .25mcg/eod to start and I go to .25mcg/ed if I see any sides
Weeks 2-12: 500IU/Week HCG (Mon/Thu)Yeah, this is fine

PCT:

Weeks 15-16: Nolva 40mg/ed

Weeks 17-18: Nolva 20mg/ed

2) Same as above but adding low dose D-bol first 3-4 weeks

Weeks 1-4: D-Bol 25mg/ed (broken up into twice or three times a day) The water retention will plump you right up. You could gain 25lbs in a month. Honestly, you're gonna lose most of the water weight after PCT anyways. If this is your first cycle, I'd just skip the dbo and just stick to the Testl.

I'll probably do the first cycle instead of this, although it is tempting because the extra compound (and one so reputable as d-bol) will obviously result in extra muscle gain.

__________________________________________________ _________
I plan on using aromasin because a lot of people seem to really prefer it over arimidex . I found some people who say, take either one, doesn't matter. I found no one who strongly recommended adex over aromasin. Basically instead of messing with the receptors, aromasin attaches to estrogen and destroys it completely. Arimidex may cause a rebound effect of estrogen when you go off it, but Aromasin isn't known to do that because of the way it works. There is a lot more to read about the differences and why aromasin is better, but that's just some very basic info off the top of my head.

**Questions:**

I've been reading that if I take HCG during I can keep my HPTA good to go more or less during the cycle. (And keep my nuts nice and plump like the two hairy hard-boiled eggs that they are) They'll still shrink just not as much. No biggie, they do come back.

I've read the following benefits/opinions on this:

*Makes PCT and recovery quicker Yep

*Makes coming off a cycle have less of a depressing effect on libido and mood I don't know about that, I've really never had any problem with PCT depression.

*Won't have to add Clomid during PCT I'd recommend Clomid, it work well with Nolva to bring you back.

Probably my main question is about the Clomid as part of PCT. I know a lot of people recommend the clomid/nolva PCT that I see everywhere online.

With HCG in the mix, will I need the Clomid in PCT? I would recommend it. It's always worked for me.

Another question that I've seen answered a million times with a few different opinions is, how much more should I eat? If I am eating clean could I add 500 calories to a cycle like this without getting fat? Muscles have to have something to nourish it and you need the sustenance to maintain your body weight. That comes from food not AAS. If you want to be big, you have to eat like a big man. Another thing, Marcus300 wrote a great post (sorry no link but you can you look it up) about how what you keep after a cycle is based on your diet and not so much on AAS. AAS helps you get big, diet helps you keep it. There's a whole diet section so I won't go into it here.

Even though there are about a million threads on the internets about it, I'd love to hear about any experiences first-timers had with a d-bol, test cycle, good or bad.

__________________________________________________ _________

Anyway, I'm probably leaning towards the first cycle (without d-bol) and if anything I might boost the test by 100 mg if I'm side-effect free (fingers crossed) the last few weeks and see how that makes me feel.

Thanks for any input guys.

Just do Test E 500mg/wk for 12 weeks, rest 2 weeks, PCT with clomid 100/50/50/50 and nolva 40/20/20/20. It's the most basic first cycle. Make sure you have AI and some acne treatment. Have fun.