not happy with cycle

**graham58** · 04-17-2013, 10:40 AM

hi i have just finished a 10 week cycle,600 mg testosterone enan 2xweek 300mg. 250iu hcgx2 week and .50mg of arimidex ed i have trained really hard ,split x4 times a week ,untill failuare. i eat clean with loads of protien,but i have,nt gained much in size or strength.i feel fat i have tits and a gut. i also have pain in my wrist ,shoulders and elbows. i know the gear is ok . iwas,nt fat before,but now i feel loose,jelly.any ideas thanks

**bigsiv** · 04-17-2013, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by graham58

hi i have just finished a 10 week cycle,600 mg testosterone enan 2xweek 300mg. 250iu hcgx2 week and .50mg of arimidex ed i have trained really hard ,split x4 times a week ,untill failuare. i eat clean with loads of protien,but i have,nt gained much in size or strength.i feel fat i have tits and a gut. i also have pain in my wrist ,shoulders and elbows. i know the gear is ok . iwas,nt fat before,but now i feel loose,jelly.any ideas thanks

Sounds like you have had too many calories past your TDEE and if you have gotten fat the diet hasn't been very good.

That's just a possibility, how do you know your test was g2g?

**clarky.** · 04-17-2013, 10:57 AM

You could have crashed your e2 if you have got pain in your joints i have had this from to much adex your test sounds bunk mate you said you trained hard so you should have had some good gains what about labido on cycle did you have bloods done at any time.

**Buster Brown** · 04-17-2013, 11:15 AM

Your adex sounds like it was a tad on the high side, were you lethargic on cycle? 600 mgs of Tes should have been a great cycle, sounds like it was really under-dosed if you didn't get any solid gains and you trained like an animal. Your diet may also be a problem. Everyone thinks there diet is great but in reality, it can always be improved. If you gained more flub then anything else, you need to dial in your diet and get in tune with your body.

**MickeyKnox** · 04-17-2013, 11:44 AM

Post your diet.

**mrmida** · 04-17-2013, 02:44 PM

Definitely bunk gear

**ProStatus** · 04-17-2013, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by mrmida

Definitely bunk gear

Yeah, after 3 weeks, I'd be like WTF?

**Metalject** · 04-17-2013, 03:44 PM

As others said you may have been eating too much. Even with gear you can only eat so much. Something else, training to failure every single time you go to the gym is not always a good idea and again, this holds true even with gear. Some can get away with it more than others, some can't but if you know your gears good then the problem is always diet and training.

**Granovich** · 04-17-2013, 03:56 PM

whats " alot of protein"
post your diet

**drake4243** · 04-17-2013, 04:19 PM

Bad gear, Bad diet, That much test E should have done the trick, Post your diet and that really hard workout plan you did could also be how your liftng.

**songdog** · 04-18-2013, 02:16 AM

I believe your diet was off your Estro crashed.

**havanakid** · 04-18-2013, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by songdog

I believe your diet was off your Estro crashed.

^^^I am with songdog on this.I think adex at .50 ed is too much.Sometimes people underestimate the strength of adex.It works quickly and IT WORKS...Should ve started at .25 EOD and adjusted accordingly.Sorry your cycle wasnt successful buddy.Take care of yourself and better luck next time.You live and learn.Trust me I know.Stay safe.

**graham58** · 04-18-2013, 09:11 AM

thanks for all the replys guys . my diet was oats in the morning with half a pint semi skimed milk,at about 10 couple of boiled eggs,chicken,about1 some tuna, rice about 3 chicken,then about 5 some chicken or fish with lentils or chick peas after training about 8 protien drink,during the day i,d eat tomotoes ,carrots raw.about 150 grms of protein daily.i think the gear was ok because i know people who have used it and been happy .my lifting form is always strict and correct,untill i can just about do between 8 to 10 reps.3 sets of 10 per body part. chest tri,s,back bi,s legs abs, shoulders,traps

**crazy mike** · 04-18-2013, 09:15 AM

If your E2 crashed you'll have no energy. I got close. ...crazy mike

**mrmida** · 04-19-2013, 09:46 AM

I absolutely guarantee his diet didn't do this... He got a bottle or 2 of grapeseed oil... Or something... Whatever you were shooting was underdosed or NOT dosed at all..

The reason I don't think it was his diet is because I personally know guys who eat everything and anything (McDonald's, ice cream, etc) while on cycle and still get good results because their gear is legit

Now I know how important diet is, but let's not forget how very important the gear itself is too

**panntastic** · 04-19-2013, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by mrmida

I absolutely guarantee his diet didn't do this... He got a bottle or 2 of grapeseed oil... Or something... Whatever you were shooting was underdosed or NOT dosed at all..

The reason I don't think it was his diet is because I personally know guys who eat everything and anything (McDonald's, ice cream, etc) while on cycle and still get good results because their gear is legit

Now I know how important diet is, but let's not forget how very important the gear itself is too

No no no sorry you can't eat Mc Donald's and get good results
No way all empty calories and pure shit gear is 10-15% max you grow I the kitchen and bed not from the needle

**largerthannormal** · 04-19-2013, 10:13 AM

gear is the least important bro DIET/TRAIN/SLEEP/GEAR ( in that order)

Steroids do not change MACROS, food is simply not FUEL for building. If proportioned wrong you can easily get fat on AAS

you can not guarantee his gear is bunk in anyway based off your buddies at Mcdonalds and got huge. Blood work is the only way to confirm anything which would be my suggestion so he can check all necessary levels.

Do not give advice if you can not support it scientifically not by what happened to your buddy..

notice all the guys above with "COLORED NAMES" are giving sound advice, its because they been here awhile and know what makes and breaks cycles.

Originally Posted by mrmida

I absolutely guarantee his diet didn't do this... He got a bottle or 2 of grapeseed oil... Or something... Whatever you were shooting was underdosed or NOT dosed at all..

The reason I don't think it was his diet is because I personally know guys who eat everything and anything (McDonald's, ice cream, etc) while on cycle and still get good results because their gear is legit

Now I know how important diet is, but let's not forget how very important the gear itself is too

**panntastic** · 04-19-2013, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by largerthannormal

gear is the least important bro DIET/TRAIN/SLEEP/GEAR ( in that order)

Steroids do not change MACROS, food is simply not FUEL for building. If proportioned wrong you can easily get fat on AAS

you can not guarantee his gear is bunk in anyway based off your buddies at Mcdonalds and got huge. Blood work is the only way to confirm anything which would be my suggestion so he can check all necessary levels.

Do not give advice if you can not support it scientifically not by what happened to your buddy..

notice all the guys above with "COLORED NAMES" are giving sound advice, its because they been here awhile and know what makes and breaks cycles.

Or mass spectograph but so much easier to get blood drawn lol

**largerthannormal** · 04-19-2013, 10:20 AM

LOL true!!

**graham58** · 04-19-2013, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by largerthannormal

LOL true!!

thanks for all the input,all i can say is i know i have trained well,eaten good,and slept well,after a long day building,then training in the gym for an hour who would,nt sleep well. i have gained about 4 kilos in total,in 10 weeks.i was using endosyn testabolic 300. 300mg a ml any one else had exp with this product.thanks

**mrmida** · 04-19-2013, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by largerthannormal

gear is the least important bro DIET/TRAIN/SLEEP/GEAR ( in that order)

Steroids do not change MACROS, food is simply not FUEL for building. If proportioned wrong you can easily get fat on AAS

you can not guarantee his gear is bunk in anyway based off your buddies at Mcdonalds and got huge. Blood work is the only way to confirm anything which would be my suggestion so he can check all necessary levels.

Do not give advice if you can not support it scientifically not by what happened to your buddy..

notice all the guys above with "COLORED NAMES" are giving sound advice, its because they been here awhile and know what makes and breaks cycles.

If you can tell me how to give scientific proof that his gear is bunk then please tell me..(only he can find out for sure) As from a public forum standpoint, that was my opinion based on past experiences... I'm know you're aware that we are on a forum where people give advice because you yourself gave your advice...

"DIET/TRAIN/SLEEP/GEAR"

I personally AGREE with this but don't forget that it is an OPINION. Some people may not agree and that's fine because that exact order cannot be supported "scientifically"

And also, I wasn't basing my point that his gear was fake off my buddy's McDonald's diet... I was simply using that as an example that diet wouldn't be the cause of him not seeing gains.. He said that he ate a lot and frequently and didn't see gains... Unless he wasn't sleeping or training, what else could it be? (maybe genetics)

Guys, it's important to not contradict yourself... Contradicting yourself is bad for your health (I have no scientific proof of this, just my opinion)

**mrmida** · 04-19-2013, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by graham58

thanks for all the input,all i can say is i know i have trained well,eaten good,and slept well,after a long day building,then training in the gym for an hour who would,nt sleep well. i have gained about 4 kilos in total,in 10 weeks.i was using endosyn testabolic 300. 300mg a ml any one else had exp with this product.thanks

Definitely go get bloodwork done bro... Gotta check your test levels

**largerthannormal** · 04-19-2013, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by mrmida

If you can tell me how to give scientific proof that his gear is bunk then please tell me( steroid panel) ..(only he can find out for sure) As from a public forum standpoint, that was my opinion based on past experiences... I'm know you're aware that we are on a forum where people give advice because you yourself gave your advice...

"DIET/TRAIN/SLEEP/GEAR"

I personally AGREE with this but don't forget that it is an OPINION.(not an opinion its a fact) Some people may not agree and that's fine because that exact order cannot be supported "scientifically" 100% yes it can

And also, I wasn't basing my point that his gear was fake off my buddy's McDonald's diet... I was simply using that as an example that diet wouldn't be the cause of him not seeing gains( he didnt post a diet, he posted a bunch of foods he ate, we are unaware of his weight/height/bf% so one has no clue where his maintenance calories are, and the amount of each he is taking in, food type is not exactly a thought out diet) .. He said that he ate a lot and frequently and didn't see gains... Unless he wasn't sleeping or training, what else could it be? (maybe genetics) no not genetics

Guys, it's important to not contradict yourself... Contradicting yourself is bad for your health (I have no scientific proof of this, just my opinion)

yes sorry you win

My point here is no one can be sure unless we can see what is going on with his serum levels. his gear could be bunk, YES / his estrogen could be crashed YES, or it could be too high with a fake AI? who knows since symptoms are the same and we have nothing to confirm.

simply stating any advice could be wrong we do not know, but to "confirm" to him it is not his diet is very wrong when most things point to it.

Originally Posted by mrmida

Definitely go get bloodwork done bro... Gotta check your test levels

test levels? nothing else just test?

**mrmida** · 04-19-2013, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by panntastic

No no no sorry you can't eat Mc Donald's and get good results
No way all empty calories and pure shit gear is 10-15% max you grow I the kitchen and bed not from the needle

Of course you can.... Obviously you get better results with a clean diet, but to say that you "can't" get good results isn't true.
McDonald's mcdouble: calories: 390. Carbs: 33. Protein: 23

That's bulking food bro! Lol. You'll put on size eating those, but the fat that comes along with it isn't something I want!

You can make gains but you will obviously put on some fat too... But then again, genetics and metabolism plays a huge role in how much fat you put on

**largerthannormal** · 04-19-2013, 11:23 AM

ok im done!! im sure the OP understands

Originally Posted by mrmida

Of course you can.... Obviously you get better results with a clean diet, but to say that you "can't" get good results isn't true.
McDonald's mcdouble: calories: 390. Carbs: 33. Protein: 23 ( how many calories of those are fat??? )

That's bulking food bro! Lol. You'll put on size eating those, but the fat that comes along with it isn't something I want!

You can make gains but you will obviously put on some fat too... But then again, genetics and metabolism plays a huge role in how much fat you put on

**mrmida** · 04-19-2013, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by largerthannormal

yes sorry you win

My point here is no one can be sure unless we can see what is going on with his serum levels. his gear could be bunk, YES / his estrogen could be crashed YES, or it could be too high with a fake AI? who knows since symptoms are the same and we have nothing to confirm.

simply stating any advice could be wrong we do not know, but to "confirm" to him it is not his diet is very wrong when most things point to it.

test levels? nothing else just test?

Your right, I shouldn't have said that it wasn't his diet because I can't confirm it... It just felt very strongly that it wasn't the diet...

Yes, he is taking test so he should get bloodwork and see if he has elevated test.. That will determine whether or not it is real... Is there something else that would determine the legitimacy of his test? I haven't had bloodwork done in about a year so I forget what my other levels are like when I'm on test. However, I do remember my t3 levels were high and im not sure what that was from

**mrmida** · 04-19-2013, 11:40 AM

100% can prove scientifically the order or importance? This is interesting... Please explain or cite source of information

**mrmida** · 04-19-2013, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by largerthannormal

yes sorry you win

My point here is no one can be sure unless we can see what is going on with his serum levels. his gear could be bunk, YES / his estrogen could be crashed YES, or it could be too high with a fake AI? who knows since symptoms are the same and we have nothing to confirm.

simply stating any advice could be wrong we do not know, but to "confirm" to him it is not his diet is very wrong when most things point to it.

test levels? nothing else just test?

How am I supposed to get a steroid panel for the OP? Only he can. Therefore I do my best at determining the problem, by giving my advice and opinions! Remember, this is a forum my dude!

**panntastic** · 04-19-2013, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by mrmida

Of course you can.... Obviously you get better results with a clean diet, but to say that you "can't" get good results isn't true.
McDonald's mcdouble: calories: 390. Carbs: 33. Protein: 23

That's bulking food bro! Lol. You'll put on size eating those, but the fat that comes along with it isn't something I want!

You can make gains but you will obviously put on some fat too... But then again, genetics and metabolism plays a huge role in how much fat you put on

Suppose a little ice cream every day is ok too?
Why didn't you list
sodium content
cholesterol content
Saturated fat content

That's not bulking food its pure shit

**largerthannormal** · 04-19-2013, 12:37 PM

CMon you know that stuff isnt important!! CALS BRO, CALS AND PROTEIN!!!!

lol

Originally Posted by panntastic

Suppose a little ice cream every day is ok too?
Why didn't you list
sodium content
cholesterol content
Saturated fat content

That's not bulking food its pure shit

**largerthannormal** · 04-19-2013, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by mrmida

Of course you can.... Obviously you get better results with a clean diet, but to say that you "can't" get good results isn't true.
McDonald's mcdouble: calories: 390. Carbs: 33. Protein: 23 ehhh ill just answer it/ (33x4=132) + ( 23x4)=224 .. 390-224=166 FAT CALORIES . bulk away!!

That's bulking food bro! Lol. You'll put on size eating those, but the fat that comes along with it isn't something I want!

You can make gains but you will obviously put on some fat too... But then again, genetics and metabolism plays a huge role in how much fat you put on

166/9=18 grams fat

**mrmida** · 04-19-2013, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by largerthannormal

166/9=18 grams fat

That's interesting, didn't know how to compute calories from fat like that... Why is it the number 4 that you multiple the carbs and protein by? And also dividing by 9? What's the significance of those numbers?

This forum is the best.. Learn something new everyday

**mrmida** · 04-19-2013, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by panntastic

Suppose a little ice cream every day is ok too?
Why didn't you list
sodium content
cholesterol content
Saturated fat content

That's not bulking food its pure shit

I was just trying to keep in simple, your right I should have incorporated those too.. And yes mcdonalds is pure shit... But that still does not mean you can't make gains eating it

Never said eating ice cream everyday is ok... I never said eating mcdonalds everyday is ok... You really need to read the post...

Although I strongly suggest anyone eats ice cream ever while on cycle..

But if your telling me ice cream is an AAS blocker (like nolva is an estrogen blocker) then I will never have a cheat day with ice cream again!

**ac guy** · 04-19-2013, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by mrmida

That's interesting, didn't know how to compute calories from fat like that... Why is it the number 4 that you multiple the carbs and protein by? And also dividing by 9? What's the significance of those numbers?

This forum is the best.. Learn something new everyday

1gr fat =9 calories
1gr protien=4 calories
1gr carb= 4 calories

**kaiblade** · 04-19-2013, 03:59 PM

1g of carb/proteins gives the body 4 calories to expend as en energy. 1g of fat gives the body 9 calories. Which is why our body prefers to store fat as an emergency energy source.

so you can know how many calories are actually fat if you subtract the carbs and protein.