Cycle comments - Test E & Tren E

[Kramer33]

Hello everyone! Long time reader, only registered and active recently. I've been working out regularly for 20 years. I have started a cycle with Test-E and I will have my Tren Hexa this week. Here are my stats:

38yr old male - 20 years lifting experience
6'3"
240-245lbs
10-12% BF based on comparative pics (I can't post pics here yet, but my avatar pic is me, two weeks ago)
Goals are building lean muscle. I want to drop to 7-9% bodyfat and maintain my bodyweight & strength
I eat about 3200 calories daily (13 x 245lbs) 40% Protein, 30% carb/fat

I've taken three cycles in the past (Test/Deca , Test/D-bol, Test/D-Bol/Deca) "low" doses-Less than 500mg per week of total gear, about 25mg of Dbol daily.
I tolerated these well, with no sides, no gyno, minimal water retention.
Most recent cycle this January was very mild - 250mg Sust weekly for 5 weeks, just what I bought in Mexico

I started a Test/Tren cycle last week. I am doing two weekly shots (250mg each) of Test E, and I am on shot #5 today. The plan is

Test E 300mg weekly, pinned twice weekly - Weeks 1-16
TREN Hexa 200mg weekly/100mg pinned twice weekly - Weeks 3,4,13,14
TREN Hexa 300mg weekly/150mg pinned twice weekly- Weeks 5-12
Clenbuterol 40-80mcg daily - 2 weeks on/2 weeks off (5000mg each of Potassium and Taurine daily)
Caber .25mg every three days weeks 3-15
Arimidex - .25 EOD weeks 3-16
Clomid/Nolvadex PCT - Weeks 18-24

I have the following questions:

1. I don't have HCG , is this really necessary? Answered and then some.
2. Could I get by with only 250mg of Test weekly with 400 mg of Tren? Answered-I'm going to drop the TEST to only 300 mg weekly.
3. Should I change my diet macros, eat more, eat less?

Thanks everyone for this site and for your feedback!

January 2013 - Right after my SECOND L5S1 Laminectomy/Discectomy




Before TEST & Tren cycle 8/15/15:



12/16/15: 3 weeks into PCT. BW 240. BF 8%?

[Kramer33]

Nothing? You won't hurt my feelings...

[free_at_last]

you're gonna love that cycle! 500mg/wk of test and 400mg/wk of tren -e is the EXACT cycle I did about ten years ago before I....er uh...shall we say...went away for awhile. yes, you can run test at 250mg/wk....nothing wrong with that; you simply need SOME exogenous test in your system IMO as the tren will crush your natural test production. I prefer higher test tho, so I would run the test at 500mg/wk (but that's just me). you could run 250mg/wk for 8 wks and 500mg/wk for the last 8 weeks (or vise versa) and make a note for future cycles as to which you respond to better. your pct/ai/diet look solid. tren comes with some heavy-duty sides, none of which I experience on only 400mg/wk. it's when I get up to 600-700mg/wk that I start the night sweats/trensomnia/etc.....so I think you'll be fine in that regard. only thing I would recommend is having some caber/prami on hand to combat the POSSIBLE progesterone build-up from the tren. I have NEVER had that problem (even when running 700mg/wk) as long as I keep my estrogen under control. looks good, bud....good luck!

[TheTaxMan]

Im on the same cycle and using 250mg test cyp and 200mg tren e, starting to see good gains now im 20+ days in

My concern for yours is using 400mg tren e, you have never used tren before

if your sides are really bad or you react bad its going to take 2 weeks to clear? If you want that doseage you should be going tren a. 400mg tren even when using tren a is alot though for a first tren user, you have to remember its 5x stronger than test. 400mg tren is equivalent to 2000mg of test, thats alot of gear.

If your like me and hate pinning and are definitely going for tren e id consider lowering the doseage to 200-250mg a week

[AR's King Silabolin]

1. I don't have HCG , is this really necessary?
2. Could I get by with only 250mg of Test weekly with 400 mg of Tren ?
3. Should I change my diet macros, eat more, eat less?

Thanks everyone for this site and for your feedback!

HCG is not necesary. I have done 20 cycles without it. I believe it will ease Your recovery, but a good clomid/nolva/mental ride, will help. And you will avoid HCG sides. HCG involves sideeffects. No question.

But after studying, hcg is the 1. Choice, but man... its not necesary. Just be more fanatic with things when you`re off.
And i dont think hcg is more healthy. It just speeds up recovery and i guess its easier to keep the gains.

[NACH3]

HCG is not necesary. I have done 20 cycles without it. I believe it will ease Your recovery, but a good clomid/nolva/mental ride, will help. And you will avoid HCG sides. HCG involves sideeffects. No question.

But after studying, hcg is the 1. Choice, but man... its not necesary. Just be more fanatic with things when you`re off.
And i dont think hcg is more healthy. It just speeds up recovery and i guess its easier to keep the gains.

HCG is necessary on cycle to help mimick LH production and it keeps your testes functional which aids in recovery - we preach SAFE AAS use on this site - please refrain from making comments like that - thx Sil

[Far from massive]

Agreed with posts 4 and 6, you really want to be careful with Tren on a first go and as said the E will take a long time to clear if you run into problems. Also while nothing is mandatory, HCG is a great addition to a cycle for the reasons stated and as long as you are using it conservatively (250 every 3rd day on cycle) sides are minimal. Also as said with Tren if you keep aromatization (estrogen) in check then prolactin sides are not an issue.

[KBall32]

HCG is definitely recommended. Years ago a standard cycle was a ton of gear, no AI, and eat 5000 dirty calories.

We have the same stats more or less, age, height, etc. Very interested in how you do on this cycle. Looks like you are going to do great. Is 3200 Cal your maintenance? Keep me posted on your progress, I think you will love this cycle. I have never run Tren and you are hitting it pretty good. Will be interested in the sides you encounter, if any. It is Tren so.....

[AR's King Silabolin]

HCG is necessary on cycle to help mimick LH production and it keeps your testes functional which aids in recovery - we preach SAFE AAS use on this site - please refrain from making comments like that - thx Sil

It speeds up recovery, but its not necesary. Ive done over 20 cycles without it. Stil good Health and recovery was ig not optimal pretty ok. Many friends just the same.
And dont give me the SAFE AAS-use shittalk. Most supported cycles in here are 12 weeks + with lots of high tren dosages and lots of test. Iver never did 12 weeks +. 8, maybe 9 at most. I guess guys with a newbie knowledge understand a 12 week+ tren cycle with hcg is more unhealthy than a 8 weeks test/anavar cycle without hcg.

Hcg does nothing for your lipids, hct, BP. And in the long run it will not aid your natty test production. HCG is suppressive aswell.

[NACH3]

It speeds up recovery, but its not necesary. Ive done over 20 cycles without it. Stil good Health and recovery was ig not optimal pretty ok. Many friends just the same.
And dont give me the SAFE AAS-use shittalk. Most supported cycles in here are 12 weeks + with lots of high tren dosages and lots of test. Iver never did 12 weeks +. 8, maybe 9 at most. I guess guys with a newbie knowledge understand a 12 week+ tren cycle with hcg is more unhealthy than a 8 weeks test/anavar cycle without hcg.

Hcg does nothing for your lipids, hct, BP. And in the long run it will not aid your natty test production. HCG is suppressive aswell.

It's a shame you haven't moved forward like science has in regards to cycling... In most of your threads you refer to cycling back in day and youse didn't have to use this or that... Well why wouldn't you want to use/& take all preventative measures so when you do go thru PCT you will be giving yourself a better chance of recovering(let's face it this is the most important part of cycling in itself - recovery) so I'll use your argument against you...

How can you compare cycles when in reality shut down is shut down - HCG will mimick LH production, keeps your testes functional on cycle(which is why it speeds up recovery b/c your testes are the last to come back - so why not give yourself that advantage as well), prevents testicular atrophy, stimulates your interstitial cells(leydig cells) 'which we don't have an ever ending supply'(austinite) of...

You say you've ran 20 cycles w/out it - great - just don't tell others it's not a necessity b/c of your ignorance. Furthermore, yes it is a suppressive, however, if taken w/in its dosages(500iu wkly) - although it can be higher(not exceeding 1000iu wkly) - but 2 250iu shots wkly has minuscule suppression effects in U.S. - hence why we use those amounts... Really this is about how we have all of the preventative ancillaries now(btw - you've seem to forgot these in your last cycle as well as HCG) out here that why wouldn't you take them... I'm not saying that if it has a negative impact on you to do so - but the drugs we have are for a reason - if Arnold had these in his day do you think that he wouldn't have used them... Of course he would have along w/today's BBers(if they didn't and ran as much gear as they do they'd be dead)...

[Kramer33]

Im on the same cycle and using 250mg test cyp and 200mg tren e, starting to see good gains now im 20+ days in
My concern for yours is using 400mg tren e, you have never used tren before
If your like me and hate pinning and are definitely going for tren e id consider lowering the doseage to 200-250mg a week

Based on this info, I will drop my dosage to 300mg Test and 300mg TREN per week later on. Only if I tolerate the Tren well will I consider going to 400mg TREN. Thanks!

Is 3200 Cal your maintenance? Keep me posted on your progress, I think you will love this cycle. I have never run Tren and you are hitting it pretty good. Will be interested in the sides you encounter, if any. It is Tren so.....

Yes, I calculated 13cal x 245lbs = ~3200 calories per day. 40% of which is protein. I've read/heard that this is a good basis for maintaining lean muscle mass. If anyone disagrees, please let me know. I like my physique now, but I'd like to be a little leaner and harder. And KBall, I'd like the number of the girl in your avatar!

[AR's King Silabolin]

It's a shame you haven't moved forward like science has in regards to cycling... In most of your threads you refer to cycling back in day and youse didn't have to use this or that... Well why wouldn't you want to use/& take all preventative measures so when you do go thru PCT you will be giving yourself a better chance of recovering(let's face it this is the most important part of cycling in itself - recovery) so I'll use your argument against you...

How can you compare cycles when in reality shut down is shut down - HCG will mimick LH production, keeps your testes functional on cycle(which is why it speeds up recovery b/c your testes are the last to come back - so why not give yourself that advantage as well), prevents testicular atrophy, stimulates your interstitial cells(leydig cells) 'which we don't have an ever ending supply'(austinite) of...

You say you've ran 20 cycles w/out it - great - just don't tell others it's not a necessity b/c of your ignorance. Furthermore, yes it is a suppressive, however, if taken w/in its dosages(500iu wkly) - although it can be higher(not exceeding 1000iu wkly) - but 2 250iu shots wkly has minuscule suppression effects in U.S. - hence why we use those amounts... Really this is about how we have all of the preventative ancillaries now(btw - you've seem to forgot these in your last cycle as well as HCG) out here that why wouldn't you take them... I'm not saying that if it has a negative impact on you to do so - but the drugs we have are for a reason - if Arnold had these in his day do you think that he wouldn't have used them... Of course he would have along w/today's BBers(if they didn't and ran as much gear as they do they'd be dead)...

Thanks for comparing me with Arnold. I do have legs though..
Anyway, all you say i do agree on, but its the word necessary i dont like. And Mr Kramer used that word too. Some kind of liversupport is NECESSARY when you go high and long on orals. Donating often is NECESSARY when you use 2 grams a week. But doing squats is not necessary for developing good thighs. For Maximum Development many wil say its necessary. But its not necessary to mimmick lh signals and having big balls when on. It will help the recovery for sure, but in the long trem it doesnt matter. I have not seen documentation that the use of HCG will increase the chanses for not destroying the HPG axis on a permanent basis. Then again it will just delay the muscleloss. As nolva and clomid. Its just a postponement. In 6-7 months you will be were u started nomatter if u used hcg, nolva or clomid or not.
For optimal quick recovery HCG is necessary. For recovery, no its not. After the years there is ofcourse no pct or anchilleries in the world which will make it possible to keep some of the roidcaused gains from a cycle. on a permanent basis. When the drugs are gone, the body will customize until it matches your natural dna.

[RangerDanger830]

It is not necessary to do a lot of things. It is not necessary to cycle in the first place, it is not necessary to add more than Test to a cycle, it is not even necessary to do PCT. But doing those things can be better right?

Spoiler alert, the answer is yes.

So no HCG is not necessary, it doesn't matter if you've done four thousand cycles without it and haven't died. What matters is that it does help minimize issues with the cycle, you even admitted it yourself.

So why even bother telling everyone who reads this read that it isn't necessary? What purpose does it serve other than increasing the risk that they may attempt a cycle without it? Any cycle is better with HCG, so stop recommending crap, just like NACH said.

EDIT: Oh Lord have mercy. I just read your comment about DNA. As someone who has graduate level education and work experience as a geneticist I can tell you that your understanding of the human body in regards to genetics is way off base.

You don't stop a compound and revert back to some mythical genetic state of equilibrium. Do you understand the concept of epigenetics?

[KBall32]

No dice Kramer. Sure you are about to have all the wig you can handle, if not already.

[NACH3]

Thanks for comparing me with Arnold. I do have legs though..
Anyway, all you say i do agree on, but its the word necessary i dont like. And Mr Kramer used that word too. Some kind of liversupport is NECESSARY when you go high and long on orals. Donating often is NECESSARY when you use 2 grams a week. But doing squats is not necessary for developing good thighs. For Maximum Development many wil say its necessary. But its not necessary to mimmick lh signals and having big balls when on. It will help the recovery for sure, but in the long trem it doesnt matter. I have not seen documentation that the use of HCG will increase the chanses for not destroying the HPG axis on a permanent basis. Then again it will just delay the muscleloss. As nolva and clomid. Its just a postponement. In 6-7 months you will be were u started nomatter if u used hcg, nolva or clomid or not.
For optimal quick recovery HCG is necessary. For recovery, no its not. After the years there is ofcourse no pct or anchilleries in the world which will make it possible to keep some of the roidcaused gains from a cycle. on a permanent basis. When the drugs are gone, the body will customize until it matches your natural dna.

Your hilarious... And no I wasn't even considering your build to Arnolds(and btw his legs are/were bigger than most realize) and surely bigger than yours but that's not the argument...

I really don't get what your even trying to say in this post, Sil... Liver support?!?! It's needed on all cycles(not just for orals - I don't understand the skimping on liver support as its the cheapest supp we have lol) Well it's clear you still can't put together a cycle correctly nor use the preventive measures we have for safe cycling(ancillaries etc) & have failed to run an AI/HCG/& a DA when running a 19nor when stacked in your cycle! It wouldn't have been much of a problem if your E2 wasn't as high as a pregnant woman lol... Keep E2 in check and prolactin won't be an issue... But you'd need an AI for that...

Now back to HCG - I agre w/Ranger here as to why you'd even say it's not necessary when you yourself even agrees it will aid in recovery(let's face it Sil it's the most important part to a cycle(PCT) and HCG helps aid in the recovery process! It is necessary to mimick LH production, furthermore, in a perfect scenerio it's best to run both HCG and HMG P(which mimickes FSH) which is needed for the production of spermatozoa... So by you saying it's not necessary I'll say it again it IS... W/out these hormones you'd become sterile(which is still a possibility when cycling - especially if your hypogonadal)!

HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

[AR's King Silabolin]

So no HCG is not necessary, it doesn't matter if you've done four thousand cycles without it and haven't died. What matters is that it does help minimize issues with the cycle, you even admitted it yourself.

So why even bother telling everyone who reads this read that it isn't necessary? What purpose does it serve other than increasing the risk that they may attempt a cycle without it? Any cycle is better with HCG, so stop recommending crap, just like NACH said.

EDIT: Oh Lord have mercy. I just read your comment about DNA. As someone who has graduate level education and work experience as a geneticist I can tell you that your understanding of the human body in regards to genetics is way off base.

You don't stop a compound and revert back to some mythical genetic state of equilibrium. Do you understand the concept of epigenetics?

He asked, is it necessary? Its not. It will minimize short term recovery issues. Endocrine issues that is. For lipids and other more serious conditions it will not do shit. And that endocrin thing is short term. For lifelong testlevel and natty production it will if any make thing worse. Its ileagal. It has sideeffects.
Oh lord...you really dont get it. Yes, its better to run HCG on cycle or even post cycle. Its speeds up recovery and it makes sure the balls dont fall to sleep and have to be awakened afterwards. But, coming off roids are a pain in the ass anyway and even if i never tried hcg, its always the same store from EVERYBODY. When you quit, the gains will fade away. Conclusion, HCG is not necessary but for optimal recovery its necessary but optimal recovery is not necessary. Meaning, if you can get it, use it, if not, its should not be an argue for going natty.

Well Mr DNA-doc. Its not necessary to bring in scientific Words. If your natty benchpress 1 Max rep is 140 kg, a good cycle will give you 160, but when the drugs are gone, its will drop to 140 like a fart in the wind, cause 140 is written in your DNA. You know...DNA..color of eyes, your heigh, sexual orientation and natty benchpress 1MR.

All this reminds me of the deca -only-cycle.thread. Its a great forum, but old dogs in here are too stuck in the Box compared to other communities.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Steril???....thats some bullshit NACH3...i have a son With my x and my wife had to get an abortion and i had done numerous non-hcg cycles in front.

But, if hcg reduces chances of becoming sterile by 50%, i will reconsider. But then you must show me the documentation. Until then, no white flag.

And please dont give me the new-member sticky-links anymore. Ive red them all ten times weeks ago.

[tarmyg]

He asked, is it necessary? Its not. It will minimize short term recovery issues. Endocrine issues that is. For lipids and other more serious conditions it will not do shit. And that endocrin thing is short term. For lifelong testlevel and natty production it will if any make thing worse. Its ileagal. It has sideeffects.
Oh lord...you really dont get it. Yes, its better to run HCG on cycle or even post cycle. Its speeds up recovery and it makes sure the balls dont fall to sleep and have to be awakened afterwards. But, coming off roids are a pain in the ass anyway and even if i never tried hcg, its always the same store from EVERYBODY. When you quit, the gains will fade away. Conclusion, HCG is not necessary but for optimal recovery its necessary but optimal recovery is not necessary. Meaning, if you can get it, use it, if not, its should not be an argue for going natty.

Well Mr DNA-doc. Its not necessary to bring in scientific Words. If your natty benchpress 1 Max rep is 140 kg, a good cycle will give you 160, but when the drugs are gone, its will drop to 140 like a fart in the wind, cause 140 is written in your DNA. You know...DNA..color of eyes, your heigh, sexual orientation and natty benchpress 1MR.

All this reminds me of the deca-only-cycle.thread. Its a great forum, but old dogs in here are too stuck in the Box compared to other communities.

Your attitude is super nonchalant and arrogant and I have no idea why! Clearly everyone, with the exception of me knows way more than you on this subject but you have decided to argue about things people discovered as a necessity a decade ago, again I ask why? So my grandpa smoked 65 years, never got lung cancer, do that prove cigarettes do not cause lung cancer? This is essentially your attitude and again, why?

[NACH3]

Steril???....thats some bullshit NACH3...i have a son With my x and my wife had to get an abortion and i had done numerous non-hcg cycles in front.

But, if hcg reduces chances of becoming sterile by 50%, i will reconsider. But then you must show me the documentation. Until then, no white flag.

And please dont give me the new-member sticky-links anymore. Ive red them all ten times weeks ago.

Then I'd suggest read em again! Lol

And yes you can have kids - even on cycle - Im primary hypogonadal and still knocked my ex twice(in which she took the day after pill after wanting me to impregnate her - she's not all there lol) many have including many friends) what your failing to realize is that I said IT(cycling) can lead to sterility - not BS! Read the post

All I'm saying is in most of your posts you end up saying you agree but it's not necessary - people don't need to be reading the hypocrocy(of not 'needing it - no one needs anything but it's much safer and gives you the ability of a faster and chances of a better recovery) & Not trying to get away w/out using the propr ancillaries etc!

Pandora what's this regarding HCG keeping your gains?!?! That's all diet related and has nothing to do w/HCG - your far from realizing what the point of using this compound is about - try reading the sticky again - your stuck in your old ways and believe it or not - science has advanced!

I'm don't I've proven my point whereas your not saying anything

[AR's King Silabolin]

this is semantic...even the deca -only-thread was more informative

[NACH3]

this is semantic...even the deca-only-thread was more informative

No your just not accustomed to change!

And Deca only thread - lmao!

[TheTaxMan]

In respect to the OP, I think its only fair to not argue on his thread and perhaps take the discussion/debate somewhere else.

Hes been advised by a lot of members to use HCG , which in turn answers his question he had in his first message.

[bethdoth]

Looking good Kramer... are you sure you weren't born with a square jaw and have that super good DNA? LOL Good luck on the cycle and if you have not already purchased you could go with tren ace which clears your system faster if sides get to be to much. Good luck to you. I do use 250iu of HCG twice a week just because I like insurance. Less sides is always better.

[RangerDanger830]

this is semantic...even the deca-only-thread was more informative

I was going to go into a long and drawn out explanation about how you are completely wrong about gene expression and the entire 140kg-160kg example but I think you are literally too unintelligent to argue with.

Good luck NACH.

[RangerDanger830]

In respect to the OP, I think its only fair to not argue on his thread and perhaps take the discussion/debate somewhere else.

Hes been advised by a lot of members to use HCG, which in turn answers his question he had in his first message.

Quite the contrary, the argument is centered on the OP's original inquiry concerning HCG . Silabolin telling him it is okay to not use HCG and many knowledgeable members telling him it is not okay helps the OP make a more informed decision. It is better to know why than to know what, and a debate helps reveal the why.

[TheTaxMan]

I hear you.
I know its about HCG (the OP's original question which i feel has been answered correctly by several people)

It just doesnt seem to be getting anywhere other than pettyness such as Arny getting involved etc, youve just said yourself you could go on and on but its pointless.

Im confident the OP will use HCG, im all for a debate but when it goes on and on and nobody is going to admit wrong or right, maybe its time to drop it.

[RangerDanger830]

I hear you. I know its about HCG (the OP's original question which i feel has been answered correctly by several people) It just doesnt seem to be getting anywhere other than pettyness such as Arny getting involved etc, youve just said yourself you could go on and on but its pointless. Im confident the OP will use HCG, im all for a debate but when it goes on and on and nobody is going to admit wrong or right, maybe its time to drop it.

No amount of evidence can change the minds of some.

[kelkel]

I'm henceforth deleting the word "necessary" from my vocabulary.

[NACH3]

Quite the contrary, the argument is centered on the OP's original inquiry concerning HCG. Silabolin telling him it is okay to not use HCG and many knowledgeable members telling him it is not okay helps the OP make a more informed decision. It is better to know why than to know what, and a debate helps reveal the why.

^^^ I agree w/this! As long as it's 'On Topic' debating is good as mentioned - and brings forth the Why... Which is what needed to be heard - inwasnt arguing -

However - it's like beating a dead horse now - so I'm just going to let it go - as the op has all the info he needs to make the right decision... W/links provided(from this site)... GL OP and don't try and cut corners, your health is far more important!

[Kramer33]

I am going to take 250 IU of HCG 2x per week. Y'all please stop arguing.

But thanks for the advice! I'm also gonna take .25mg of Cabergoline every three days.

[free_at_last]

I am going to take 250 IU of HCG 2x per week. Y'all please stop arguing.

But thanks for the advice! I'm also gonna take .25mg of Cabergoline every three days.

great call!

[AR's King Silabolin]

Yes, can stop but...i interpreters kelkels comment as if he says my points cannot be neglected, but he cant say this loud because of the unwritten hierarchy rules.

I sleep well with teaming up with Mr kelkel.

[tarmyg]

Yes, can stop but...i interpreters kelkels comment as if he says my points cannot be neglected, but he cant say this loud because of the unwritten hierarchy rules.

I sleep well with teaming up with Mr kelkel.

You could interpret a turd as a hotdog. That will not make it so. But good luck with your nonsensical arguments.

[william981125]

[kelkel]

You could interpret a turd as a hotdog. That will not make it so.

About spit out my food when i read this...

[Kramer33]

Another Question: I have Clenbuterol , but was going to take it AFTER my cycle to help burn off the last 1-2% bodyfat. What are your thoughts on using Clen During or After cycle? Is it better while on or off?

[KBall32]

If you are going to use Clen I would use it on cycle, definitely not during PCT. I wouldn't try to loose any weight during that period or you will end up significantly affecting your gains. I suspect after the Tren you might not even need or want the Clen.

[TheTaxMan]

Id say it would depend on your side effects/tolerance to the tren
I would hate for anyone to be heating up and sweating like mad on the tren then adding clen :/

If the tren sides are really light then maybe start with a low dose

If tren sides are quite intense id leave the clen maybe use it off cycle or save it for the future

[free_at_last]

just saw the pics you added in your original post. dude, you are f'ing jacked...forearms and traps are sick!! i'm telling you, you're gonna absolutely LOVE the tren . it'll completely shred you (with diet in check of course, which sounds like it is). you're gonna lose all that water and see veins where you didn't know they existed. by wk 6 people are gonna ask if you have a garden hose wrapped around your body underneath your clothes due to the insane vascularity. by wk 9 people will ask you if you're on 'roids. and, sadly, by week 12 you'll realize you're done with your cycle and wish it could go on forever!

two questions....

1) how much test did you decide to run?
2) are you gonna keep this thread going as a log so we can all follow your progress?

i'd love to see weekly pics to track your progress. the only thing almost as fun as running tren is watching others change literally before your eyes on a weekly basis.....especially someone's first tren-run!! you look great, bro, and I hope you keep us posted in the form of a cycle log. good luck!!

[NACH3]

If you are going to use Clen I would use it on cycle, definitely not during PCT. I wouldn't try to loose any weight during that period or you will end up significantly affecting your gains. I suspect after the Tren you might not even need or want the Clen.

Agree w/this 100% never cut cals during pct or even during recivery as it's a critical time to keep as much as your gaind as possible...

Also clen would be much better on cycle it'll really help you prevent any catabolism(which wouldn't be s problem) and you can use s 2 wk on 2 wk off approach;ramping up your dose till tolerable) or stay on an extended period(4-6 wks I've not run it yet) w/Ketofin to keep your receptors fresh and not get used to the compound making your dise go up..

Lookin BIG!