1: is that right that, less time you are shut down/supress easier it gets to recover? I mean 12weeks compared to 8weeks - 8 compared to 6 - 6 compared to 4.
2: is that easier to recover from being supressed than completly shutdown??
Thanks
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1: is that right that, less time you are shut down/supress easier it gets to recover? I mean 12weeks compared to 8weeks - 8 compared to 6 - 6 compared to 4.
2: is that easier to recover from being supressed than completly shutdown??
Thanks
Generally speaking, yes and yes.
Good so why oral only cycle have so bad reputation here...
Exemple: anavar only for 6 weeks.
Shorter cycle than short ester(prop)
No aromatization
Easier recovery
Smaller gain but still noticeable
Supression but probably not shut down
May lead to ED however it's a short terms complication and can recovery easier than with test. And cialis is great to fix that issue.
About depression and lack of libido, like a said its a short term situation and some may feel ok even with low test(I know I am not suicidal with low test...) and libido... Must of us can live with less sex for a month...
Hcg may and I should still be used but by doing oral only we could save on the AI, and clomid(nolva alone probably will be enough).
Honestly oral only are very convenient for alot of people and has been done succesfully by many people.
Bumb! Very good question....
Bump
You will loose more gains after an oral only cycle simply because that is the nature of oral AAS.
If you are interested in quick recovery, then you should look into ''burst cycles'', which last only about 6 weeks.
People who are extremely repelled by the idea of injecting shouldn't really run AAS cycles IMO.
Sound like bro science...
I think its a common thought to believe that gain cant be keep after oral only because normaly people do oral only because of the lack of knowledge + the supression without pct. So thats why they lose their gain.
But if its done correctly the gain can be keep as good as with injectable.
It do not make sence to think that muscle gained by oral is less sustainable than them gained by injectable... Its like saying that hypertrophy of the muscle fiber is different in some way if produce by oral... it just do not make sence...
Hypertrophy is hypertrophy no matter what caused it...
Sustaining our gain depends on what we do, not abouts the form of what we use...
How To Keep Gains For The Moderate User
AAS- Tips on keeping gains for the moderate user*
You must have not consistently followed my posts on the forum, otherwise you would think twice before constructing the first sentence you did in your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by qscgugcsq
1) Hypertrophy of the muscle fiber is primarily caused by lifting, resting and feeding for the muscle fiber, not by AAS. AAS enters the scene only in terms of increasing strength that allows lifting heavier weights and/or training in a more intense manner if not both as well as aiding pace and quality of recovery, meaning it has a secondary role in this process as opposed to primary, meaning that AAS doesn't cause hypertrophy.
2) Although it is partially true that those who run oral AAS only cycles tend to loose their gains much more rapidly than those who don't due to lack of knowledge and PCT; it is also a fact that majority of oral AAS out there consist of aromatizing compounds which tend to cause an insane amount of bloating (even when accompanied with an AI), which often offer the lifter unusual strength gains in a very short period of time as well as leading to an overall increment in size and weight rapidly. Once the cycle is over, aromatization is over too, hence rapidly gained body weight as well as strength goes down equally fast, which is very demoralizing for the lifter to say the least.
I also just read your original post in this thread, which you presented in the form of two questions, and this is what I have to say:
If you are concerned about the positive correlation between running long cycles and being shutdown as well as not being able to recover as quickly, then you should look into 6 week ''burst cycles'' that may or not involve oral AAS, as opposed to leaping to an unstable conclusion that a non-aromatizing oral only cycle is the way to go, which obviously involves a personal dislike for injectable AAS as the underlying motivation.
Moreover, what makes you think that Anavar dosed at 80-100mg ED would inflict a less suppression on the HPTA as opposed to Testosterone Proportionate dosed at 50mg ED for the same duration? No one can guarantee you that 560-700mg of Anavar EW would actually offer a better benefit to risk ratio compared to 375mg of Test Prop EW. The very same is valid for pace & quality of overall recovery concerning the post-cycle phase.
Nice post.
Of course, we lose gain after, if it's due to aromatization and bloating.
I wasnt talking about that kind of "gain" sry if i wasnt clear enough.
I was strictly talking about muscle gain any other weight gain related do not count as gain.
Sry if you felt offended in my way to say things but when you said it's "in their nature" It was weird to me. Because like you said hypertrophy is caused by training not by the compound. So muscle gain made by oral is as good as injectable.
I want to add that alot of people prefer oral over injectable for the reason you said, scared of pinning.
And that situation do not apply to me, Im just very interested in that subject.
Last thing, I don't know how the HPTA will react between 350mg test EW compared to 700mg anavar.
If we look at their androgenic ratio testosterone have 100:100 and anavar(I dont remember exactly) 37:340 So testosterone is 2-3times more androgenic than anavar. So it would take 2-3x more anavar to cause the same supression than testosterone.
Due to the androgenic property of anavar are pretty mild so the supression won't be complete and with testosterone will be complete.
Plus, anavar do not aromatize and oestrogen is a part of the regulation of the hpta. So when we get supress oestrogen will drop if it drops body will stimulate the testosterone by trying to compensate. Of course se will still get supress...
So I personnally thing that anavar will never completly shut down but it certainly may supress a lot.
And by experience I saw so many people abusing of oral without any kind knowledge and still had hard boner and good libido. So I don't think shut down is a concern with dht derivative(oral or injectable).
Thanks for your post, very apreciated and I will certainly look into burts cycle.
Sry double post
Plain logic vs facts of male endocrine system: DHT derivatives tend to bind to the AR (androgenic receptors) multiple times more successfully (depending on the compound, of course) than Testosterone. Thus, the fact that Testosterone is more androgenic than DHT compounds (Primobolan, Winstrol, Masteron, Anavar and so forth) doesn't necessarily mean it will cause a further suppression of the HPTA when compared on a mg per mg basis. Again, everyone is different but I know for a fact that 700mg of Anavar EW for 6 weeks will cause a shut-down of my HPTA.Quote:
Originally Posted by qscgugcsq
As it is completely true that estrogen is a part of the regulation of the HPTA and hence elevated estrogen levels play an important role especially in terms of recovery of the HPTA from the prior shut-down, we have modern AIs to maintain normal estrogen levels during any aromatizing cycle. Thus, ''aromatizing compounds vs non-aromatizing compounds'' doesn't really deserve a discussion of its own any longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by qscgugcsq
True that. Many people can ''somehow'' get away with high libido and rock hard erections while their HPTA is significantly suppressed during these oral only cycles, but honestly, so many of these miracle workers are on Cialis nowadays that it is really hard to figure out whether it is the daily Cialis use or the oral AAS itself allowing them to have such luck, if you know what I mean. A further tip would be, ''do not take the words of people who use/abuse AAS for granted, whether they are pros or gym rats.''Quote:
Originally Posted by qscgugcsq
Agreed,but im talking about guys who have no idea whats cialis is and ABUSE aas not use...Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkish Juicer
Thats why I doubt they are THAT supressed... They are, their is no doubt. But maybe not that much...
But you said it vary from person to person.
But wouldnt be a plus to know if we get mildly supress/moderately supress/shut down By oral only??
Seems to be pretty important to know... If someone see absolutly no difference and have BW done to confirm. I know a strongman who do not use any AI/HCG or PCT and is not shutdown even with crazy amount of aas(I wonder how someone who reached that level(WSM) could not know anything about it...)
I know it is very rare, but doing an oral only cycle to see how we supress is very interesting...
It could help adjust he pct. On difderent type of cycle.
Some orals cause water retention, so when you quit you lose the water weight. I would never suggest a cycle shorter then 3 months.
I actually agree with you. The reason I wouldn't run an oral alone is because they make me lethargic. Being tired and/or cranky for weeks on end is no way to live.Quote:
Originally Posted by qscgugcsq