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Thread: No More Letro for Gyno!

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    No More Letro for Gyno!

    I see it all over. I have gyno..how much letro should i take? Jumping on letro to "crush"estrogen to the point that gyno can not survive. The problem is estrogen plays an important role in so many things the idea of simply "crushing"it is far from a prudent one.

    This is where serms come in. Serms bind to the estrogen receptor in breast tissue, making it impossible for estrogen to bind and illicit its effects on those receptors. If we are getting gyno, even if using an ai, our estrogen levels are too high. They need to be managed, however with gyno at the door a serm will stop it in its tracks.

    I think gyno treatment should be 2 fold , treatment and then management. The treatment and management should occur at the same time using a serm and an AI. The SERM will IMMEDIATELY begin to prevent and treat gyno. The ai will manage estrogen levels lowering them to a proper level where serm therapy may be stopped.

    There is a lot of talk about tamoxifen and its effects on pogesterone or how it lowers blood levels of arimidex and letrozole . All that aside (i personally think its over hyped), one can use the serm Raloxifene which puts these fears to rest.

    Gyno symptom? Lump etc. Start 60mg ralox/day and up ai dose as current dose was not adequately managing estrogen. When lump goes away cease serm use and continue on with elevated ai doages till end of cycle up to pct.

    Thoughts?

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    I agree with the 2 shot method. Administering Nolva and letro worked great for me. I don't know if Letro is quite the devil some it's made out to be. It takes some practice to get used to dosing but it is a very effective AI

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    never tried ralox, Nolva works fine for me

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    Great post jimmy, ive personally had great success with nolva over the years....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    I agree with the 2 shot method. Administering Nolva and letro worked great for me. I don't know if Letro is quite the devil some it's made out to be. It takes some practice to get used to dosing but it is a very effective AI
    I totally agree letro is very effective. If one can mange its use its a powerful tool. The big difference is managing estrogen with letro and treating gyno with it by crushing estroen Thats where i dont like its application. We are def on the same page with this I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EKFitness View Post
    never tried ralox, Nolva works fine for me
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Great post jimmy, ive personally had great success with nolva over the years....
    You know what guys so have I and I dont really buy into the nolva fear hype when it comes to this stuff. In my opinion raloxifene or nolva would work just fine. Anyway I agree re nolva...it always served me well..long before ai's were in the picture and even with deca and tren ! lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    I totally agree letro is very effective. If one can mange its use its a powerful tool. The big difference is managing estrogen with letro and treating gyno with it by crushing estroen Thats where i dont like its application. We are def on the same page with this I think.
    I think the point of "crashing estrogen" during gyno reversal is to attack it hard and fast before it becomes permanent. I would rather deal with short term effects of low estrogen than a lifetime of gyno. I'm not arguing your op just pointing out my reason for choosing letro originally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    You know what guys so have I and I dont really buy into the nolva fear hype when it comes to this stuff. In my opinion raloxifene or nolva would work just fine. Anyway I agree re nolva...it always served me well..long before ai's were in the picture and even with deca and tren! lol
    I agree with this too. I think an argument could still be made that using Nolva on cycle is a good idea

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    Never used ralox either. Heard goof things

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    I agree with the 2 shot method. Administering Nolva and letro worked great for me. I don't know if Letro is quite the devil some it's made out to be. It takes some practice to get used to dosing but it is a very effective AI
    I love letro for my AI, just needs to be dosed right.
    |I use it on cycle at low doses.
    I also agree with jimmy crashing estrogen is not the way to go for gyno!

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    I always use nolvadex as well as my A.i during cycle. I'm very sensitive to high estro and usually have a flare up mid cycle. Never used ralox but open to new ideas

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    When I searched for information about raloxifene on the forum I found this. http://forums.steroid.com/questions-...treatment.html

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    I agree. I am not a fan of Letro even for an AI. Juiced Porkchop is a very advanced, responsible and level headed user with a great understanding of Letro and it's effects. This is why I never say anything about his use, but I don't recommend it for the average gym goer.

    Ralox is absolutely superior of the 3 mentioned, and the protocol starting at 60mg is perfect. This will take time of course, so be patient and don't lose hope... it will work!
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    i thought you cant use nolv throughout cycle on a deca or tren cycle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsiv View Post
    I always use nolvadex as well as my A.i during cycle. I'm very sensitive to high estro and usually have a flare up mid cycle. Never used ralox but open to new ideas
    just curious on why you are using both? if you used an AI like ldex during cycle which controls estrogen, why would you have a flare up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslifter View Post
    i thought you cant use nolv throughout cycle on a deca or tren cycle?

    Why ever not???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Why ever not???
    i thought i read dont use nolv throughout cycle if using tren or deca because of that chemical 19-nor or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslifter View Post
    i thought i read dont use nolv throughout cycle if using tren or deca because of that chemical 19-nor or something.
    Ahhh that old chestnut, parroted rubbish in my experience...
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    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslifter

    just curious on why you are using both? if you used an AI like ldex during cycle which controls estrogen, why would you have a flare up?
    See this comes my own personal experience if I only use an A.i I seem to get estro sides, sensitive nips lumps etc, I have experimented with different doses (crashed my estro once) and the only thing that seems to help is running nolvadex along with my A.i.

    I seem to have worked my own dosage of A.i during cycle where I don't crash and sides are slight but still enough to warrant the use of a seem.

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    Agree with Jimmy 100%. Letro should be for the advanced user only IMHO. It's senseless to crush your E when safer options exist as noted above. Pubmed will bear out what Jimmy said regarding the effectiveness of Raloxifene having an edge over nolva. Some people just seem hyper-sensitive to gyno and slight deviations or jumps in their E levels can cause issues from sensitivity only to deposits. For these individuals running a serm along side their AI is just plain prudent. It's a safety net, so to speak, regardless if there is a loss in efficacy of the AI or not. Timely BW is prudent as always in these situations.

    I've mentioned this here recently that I advised several friends of mine with developing gyno issues about the serm / andractim combo. Both had great success. One is a current pro who was obviously aware of serms but not of Andractim. Great stuff.

    My .02 anyway.

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    Great and timely thread as we have had quite a few gyno threads of recent. I have managed estrogen while on cycle and have not had a gyno problem although very prone to estrogen conversion. I like idea of attacking the problem from different directions without sending estrogen to the grave. Thanks Jimmy for post this and starting the conversation.

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    quick side hijack, say I AM running 20mg Nolva for estrogen while on cycle, when going into a Nolva Clomid pct, how should I dose that Nolva to shock the system once again? hit 60mg for the first week?

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    I personally have been using letro for my AI use, yes it took some tweeking and trial and eror, but It works great, and yes I do take 20 mg of nova when blasting a 19 nor. I have never had any type of gyno related anything......
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    Quote Originally Posted by EKFitness View Post
    quick side hijack, say I AM running 20mg Nolva for estrogen while on cycle, when going into a Nolva Clomid pct, how should I dose that Nolva to shock the system once again? hit 60mg for the first week?
    No need to go over 40mg in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironbeck View Post
    I personally have been using letro for my AI use, yes it took some tweeking and trial and eror, but It works great, and yes I do take 20 mg of nova when blasting a 19 nor. I have never had any type of gyno related anything......
    Good post. I think if you can mange letro its a great on cycle ai. I personally have a hard time doing so but I know guys like yourself that love it.

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    so it seems people run nolv and an AI throughout cycle on tren or deca now. i really want to combat gyno to the fullest while on and im prone.

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    Great write-up Jimmy, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    I see it all over. I have gyno..how much letro should i take? Jumping on letro to "crush"estrogen to the point that gyno can not survive. The problem is estrogen plays an important role in so many things the idea of simply "crushing"it is far from a prudent one.

    This is where serms come in. Serms bind to the estrogen receptor in breast tissue, making it impossible for estrogen to bind and illicit its effects on those receptors. If we are getting gyno, even if using an ai, our estrogen levels are too high. They need to be managed, however with gyno at the door a serm will stop it in its tracks.

    I think gyno treatment should be 2 fold , treatment and then management. The treatment and management should occur at the same time using a serm and an AI. The SERM will IMMEDIATELY begin to prevent and treat gyno. The ai will manage estrogen levels lowering them to a proper level where serm therapy may be stopped.

    There is a lot of talk about tamoxifen and its effects on pogesterone or how it lowers blood levels of arimidex and letrozole . All that aside (i personally think its over hyped), one can use the serm Raloxifene which puts these fears to rest.

    Gyno symptom? Lump etc. Start 60mg ralox/day and up ai dose as current dose was not adequately managing estrogen. When lump goes away cease serm use and continue on with elevated ai doages till end of cycle up to pct.

    Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    I agree. I am not a fan of Letro even for an AI. Juiced Porkchop is a very advanced, responsible and level headed user with a great understanding of Letro and it's effects. This is why I never say anything about his use, but I don't recommend it for the average gym goer.

    Ralox is absolutely superior of the 3 mentioned, and the protocol starting at 60mg is perfect. This will take time of course, so be patient and don't lose hope... it will work!
    I'm currently battling a little gyno flare up mid-cycle. I'm not sure really how this happened. I've been running .5 mg of adex, .3 mg of prami, and 20 mg of tamox (for lipids) ED. I am pretty certain it's gyno as it is a hard lump behind my nipple and is sensitive to the touch. Definitely not adipose tissue. I started taking 60mg of ralox about a week ago. My question is - How long until you start to notice the effects?

    I just put in an order for some letro as I'm not going to let the progress any further. I've had great luck with nolva and letro in the past but was put on to raloxifene by all of the good reviews here. My main concern is that I have been taking nolva, adex and prami and still had this flare up. Any thoughts? Not a sufficient enough dosage of each? I felt like I was running them all on the high end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWP806

    I'm currently battling a little gyno flare up mid-cycle. I'm not sure really how this happened. I've been running .5 mg of adex, .3 mg of prami, and 20 mg of tamox (for lipids) ED. I am pretty certain it's gyno as it is a hard lump behind my nipple and is sensitive to the touch. Definitely not adipose tissue. I started taking 60mg of ralox about a week ago. My question is - How long until you start to notice the effects?

    I just put in an order for some letro as I'm not going to let the progress any further. I've had great luck with nolva and letro in the past but was put on to raloxifene by all of the good reviews here. My main concern is that I have been taking nolva, adex and prami and still had this flare up. Any thoughts? Not a sufficient enough dosage of each? I felt like I was running them all on the high end.
    I had a flare up, 2 weeks into Nolva I started feeling it break up. no pain or itch

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    Quote Originally Posted by EKFitness

    I had a flare up, 2 weeks into Nolva I started feeling it break up. no pain or itch
    Apparently you didn't read my post. I've been taking nolva since I've been on cycle for lipids... In addition to adex and prami... And now ralox

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWP806

    Apparently you didn't read my post. I've been taking nolva since I've been on cycle for lipids... In addition to adex and prami... And now ralox
    well then you have a relentless titty situation and should see a doctor. sounds like you're on way too much shit

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWP806 View Post
    I'm currently battling a little gyno flare up mid-cycle. I'm not sure really how this happened. I've been running .5 mg of adex, .3 mg of prami, and 20 mg of tamox (for lipids) ED. I am pretty certain it's gyno as it is a hard lump behind my nipple and is sensitive to the touch. Definitely not adipose tissue. I started taking 60mg of ralox about a week ago. My question is - How long until you start to notice the effects?

    I just put in an order for some letro as I'm not going to let the progress any further. I've had great luck with nolva and letro in the past but was put on to raloxifene by all of the good reviews here. My main concern is that I have been taking nolva, adex and prami and still had this flare up. Any thoughts? Not a sufficient enough dosage of each? I felt like I was running them all on the high end.
    2-3 weeks for me if caught early.
    Treatment in studies goes for months it should be noted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EKFitness View Post
    well then you have a relentless titty situation and should see a doctor. sounds like you're on way too much shit
    Yeah, it could be... I don't think I'm on too much gear though... 500mg test, 450mg deca . At the dosages that I was taking of my a-dex, prami, and nolva, there is no way in hell I should have developed a lump. Definitely a relentless titty situation. wtf?

    I reposted this question to gain some more traffic so I am going to stop commenting on this one.

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    Shameless Bump....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    Shameless Bump....
    Not at all. Somehow I missed this post and have found it informative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    Not at all. Somehow I missed this post and have found it informative.
    Thanks P!

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    great thread, thanks!

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