Tbol

[>Good Luck<]

What is turnabol? How is it different than dbol ? Common dosages and intended uses?? Thanks

[Lunk1]

I prefer Tbod to Dbol as a kickstart to a cycle. The gains are less and slower but are actually sustainable. I prefer a bit higher dosage than I would with Dbol. With Dbol I would run 50mg ED for example but with Tbol I would start at 80mg ED and perhaps work up to closer to 100mg if the pumps are bearable!

[>Good Luck<]

I prefer Tbod to Dbol as a kickstart to a cycle. The gains are less and slower but are actually sustainable. I prefer a bit higher dosage than I would with Dbol. With Dbol I would run 50mg ED for example but with Tbol I would start at 80mg ED and perhaps work up to closer to 100mg if the pumps are bearable!

Would this be a viable option for a first time oral kicker? My options are var, d or tbol. Var I would run 60 mg daily with confidence. Dbol I was planning on 40mg so what would you say is a good start point for tbol?

[krugerr]

Nice thread. I couldn't find much regarding how Tbol is different. Just a lot of people comparing Var and Tbol, but not really explaining the difference.

[Buster Brown]

Most say to start at 40 a day for a first timer and work your way up to find your sweet spot. You will bloat on the Dbol and if you are using this only for a kickstart for 4 weeks then I don't think that is long enough to see results from the var.

[Lunk1]

Dbol will give you quicker bigger gains going into the cycle but you will lose most of it as it is mainly water weight. Var is more of a finisher IMO and best run on the back of a cutting run. Tbol or (Halo if available) would be my choice for susstainable gains to kickstart a cycle.

I would start Tbol at 60mg and work up if you dont experience painful pumps. As I said I think 80mg is a good dose to run but it is good to work into it.

[>Good Luck<]

Nice thread. I couldn't find much regarding how Tbol is different. Just a lot of people comparing Var and Tbol, but not really explaining the difference.

I agree! What I'd like to see is a detailed profile on the stuff...

[>Good Luck<]

Most say to start at 40 a day for a first timer and work your way up to find your sweet spot. You will bloat on the Dbol and if you are using this only for a kickstart for 4 weeks then I don't think that is long enough to see results from the var.

If I were to choose Var, I'd go 8 weeks at 60mg with 500mg weekly test e or c. Seems like tbol might be more effective if it produces sustainable gains. For the monetary difference obviously.

[>Good Luck<]

Dbol will give you quicker bigger gains going into the cycle but you will lose most of it as it is mainly water weight. Var is more of a finisher IMO and best run on the back of a cutting run. Tbol or (Halo if available) would be my choice for susstainable gains to kickstart a cycle.

I would start Tbol at 60mg and work up if you dont experience painful pumps. As I said I think 80mg is a good dose to run but it is good to work into it.

Thanks lunk!!! I can always count on a thorough response from you. I just might choose tbol next go! Would one experience significant strength gains from tbol? I'd like to increase my lifts, but not ready for other injectables.

[Lunk1]

I agree! What I'd like to see is a detailed profile on the stuff...

http://www.steroid.com/Oral-Turinabol.php

Is this not detailed enough??

[Lunk1]

Thanks lunk!!! I can always count on a thorough response from you. I just might choose tbol next go! Would one experience significant strength gains from tbol? I'd like to increase my lifts, but not ready for other injectables.

Some compare Var and Tbol but I believe the strength gained on Tbol is much greater. For me Var is just to help remove some excess water and provide a leaner look. I really don't like the idea of any of these being used without Test as the base!

[Lunk1]

Thanks lunk!!! I can always count on a thorough response from you. I just might choose tbol next go! Would one experience significant strength gains from tbol? I'd like to increase my lifts, but not ready for other injectables.

Significant gains is reletive. Again...will you see the blow up of Dbol ...NO! But you will have good kickstart gainss that will stay!

[>Good Luck<]

Some compare Var and Tbol but I believe the strength gained on Tbol is much greater. For me Var is just to help remove some excess water and provide a leaner look. I really don't like the idea of any of these being used without Test as the base!

I understand and agree 1000% that test base is mandatory, hence why I said " other injectables" aside from test. And I suppose I missed the tbol profile cuz i scrolled to T rather than o for oral.. Thanks again lunk

[Ashop]

What is turnabol? How is it different than dbol? Common dosages and intended uses?? Thanks

Gains wise its similar to DBOL but without the massive size and water retention that most get with DBOL.
The gains are typically nice lean muscle gains and added strength with TBOL.

[qwertyl]

This got me interested in a tbol kickstart with buildup as suggested above and switch to var after 4 week (for 6-8 weeks) with test as base. What do you think, too much orals for liver or good for a lean cycle?

[Lunk1]

This got me interested in a tbol kickstart with buildup as suggested above and switch to var after 4 week (for 6-8 weeks) with test as base. What do you think, too much orals for liver or good for a lean cycle?

I wouldn't if you have no or limited cycle experience but 8 weeks switching from Tbol to Var is not horrible!

[magic32]

This got me interested in a tbol kickstart with buildup as suggested above and switch to var after 4 week (for 6-8 weeks) with test as base. What do you think, too much orals for liver or good for a lean cycle?

I agree with everything Lunk said above...great insight man!

As for this question, you could definitely run that cycle safely. And "no", it won't be too much for your liver, as both are very mild especially at modest dosages.

CAVEAT: The above info is assuming a normal liver, if you're a heavy drinker or smoker, or if you have any pre-existing conditions that comprise hepatic health (Hepatitis A, B, or C for example), then they should be considered when using 17aas for 12 wks. An early alert of hepatotoxicity often appears as several very tiny, slightly raised red bumps on the inner forearms. Should you incur them, grab some MT.

[mikezilla]

I got some tbol 50mg caps to high for twice a day dosage if i take once a day will it do any thing i have never tried the stuff

[>Good Luck<]

I got some tbol 50mg caps to high for twice a day dosage if i take once a day will it do any thing i have never tried the stuff

Take 1 a day and see how it goes! Some guys run less than that even!!

[mikezilla]

thanks i'll let you know

[harley121]

Whats MT?

I agree with everything Lunk said above...great insight man!

As for this question, you could definitely run that cycle safely. And "no", it won't be too much for your liver, as both are very mild especially at modest dosages.

CAVEAT: The above info is assuming a normal liver, if you're a heavy drinker or smoker, or if you have any pre-existing conditions that comprise hepatic health (Hepatitis A, B, or C for example), then they should be considered when using 17aas for 12 wks. An early alert of hepatotoxicity often appears as several very tiny, slightly raised red bumps on the inner forearms. Should you incur them, grab some MT.

[>Good Luck<]

Whats MT?

Milk thistle and it's useless

[harley121]

Got it, I take that now off cycle. No good?

Milk thistle and it's useless

[>Good Luck<]

Got it, I take that now off cycle. No good?

IMO, milk thistle is a waste of money any time. I believe there is a prod. caller LIV-52 for liver support

[BlueWaffle21]

Grab some Tudca and Liv-52

[Alpha-Male]

Milk thistle useless? Lol, stroll on over to google scholar and take a gander at the numerous studies done proving its efficacy as a liver protectant, and it's likely much cheaper than ur Liv52...SAMe and ALA are also potent liver protectants, but for cost effectiveness, milk thistle is the standard...Liv52 is merely a combo of other herbs that likely haven't been tested as thoroughly and with as much success as milk thistle...remember fellas, Google Scholar is ur friend actual published studies done in labs by scientists who have Mensa memberships

[>Good Luck<]

Milk thistle useless? Lol, stroll on over to google scholar and take a gander at the numerous studies done proving its efficacy as a liver protectant, and it's likely much cheaper than ur Liv52...SAMe and ALA are also potent liver protectants, but for cost effectiveness, milk thistle is the standard...Liv52 is merely a combo of other herbs that likely haven't been tested as thoroughly and with as much success as milk thistle...remember fellas, Google Scholar is ur friend actual published studies done in labs by scientists who have Mensa memberships

Studies related to liver support WHILE USING STEROIDS ? or just liver support for hippies?

[Alpha-Male]

And Lunk is right, Hooker put ALOT of time and effort into the profile section, AND was nice enough to include references I would buy stock in that info over most of the feedback you will potentially get on the forums...

[warmouth]

Milk thistle useless? Lol, stroll on over to google scholar and take a gander at the numerous studies done proving its efficacy as a liver protectant, and it's likely much cheaper than ur Liv52...SAMe and ALA are also potent liver protectants, but for cost effectiveness, milk thistle is the standard...Liv52 is merely a combo of other herbs that likely haven't been tested as thoroughly and with as much success as milk thistle...remember fellas, Google Scholar is ur friend actual published studies done in labs by scientists who have Mensa memberships

Do you understand the cost it would be to take enough milkthistle to do anything? The milk thistle you get from the herb shops are not nearly enough to have any protective benefits. Even the guys here that swear by milk thistle admit it needs to be taken in grams, not milligrams. Were talking 5-10 grams daily. No thanks. Ill stick to the tried and positively true NAC for liver support. Liv52 has NAC and UDCA if Im not mistaken. Both of which has a better cost:effectivness ratio. Atomini has a great liver thread that proves the milk thistle theory wrong. Check it out. Has alot of research backing all claims. Milk thistle is proven to have some benefit to liver protection, Imnot saying it doesnt. I am saying that there is far better compounds that are more cost effective. And when you go to the hospital for acetaminophen OD, do the doctors give milk thistle? Nope. NAC.

[Alpha-Male]

Hippies, heh, that's cute, tell you what, I've been using steroids since 1994, I still drink on occasion, I take methotrexate for RA (extremely hepatotoxic), and my fair share of Tylenol-laden products and I have bloodwork done every 3-4 months, and liver panel is always within range, and all I take and have ever taken is milk thistle, OTC, 1200mg a day...it's tried and true and tested...there are other things out there harsher on the liver than just steroids funny man...and to the other guy who's been a member 9 months, why do you need something they give you in a hospital to fight Tylenol OD? MT is a PROTECTANT bro, SAMe and ALA have actually been shown to help with damage to the liver, I'm merely talking prevention...

[Getbig06]

I prefer Tbod to Dbol as a kickstart to a cycle. The gains are less and slower but are actually sustainable. I prefer a bit higher dosage than I would with Dbol. With Dbol I would run 50mg ED for example but with Tbol I would start at 80mg ED and perhaps work up to closer to 100mg if the pumps are bearable!

What exactly is the cause of tbe backpumps? Kidney issues?

[Alpha-Male]

So this Atomini guy comes along and instead of publishing his idea in the Journal of Medicine, he posts it here? LOL wow, so all those scientific studies proving its efficacy are now "theories"??? LMAO damn, I've been away from this board too long

[>Good Luck<]

So this Atomini guy comes along and instead of publishing his idea in the Journal of Medicine, he posts it here? LOL wow, so all those scientific studies proving its efficacy are now "theories"??? LMAO damn, I've been away from this board too long

Well if it's on the Internet, it's gotta be true no need to argue, were all here giving opinions and each person is free to decide and act as they please.

[warmouth]

So this Atomini guy comes along and instead of publishing his idea in the Journal of Medicine, he posts it here? LOL wow, so all those scientific studies proving its efficacy are now "theories"??? LMAO damn, I've been away from this board too long

I'm sure you are the man when it comes to AAS here on this site. I see you've been a member since 05, yet this is the first I've seen you post...... anyways. I think you arent understanding what I'm saying. Yes, milk thistle is known to be a liver protectant. But the quantities needed arent feasible, as it is too expensive. NAC and tudca/udca are much better liver protectants.

As far as Atomini goes. He has given as much, if not more than anyone else on the forum over the last year. He is pre-med and an expert on all things AAS. You'd be suprised to know what all he does in his off-time. Read his sticky and judge for yourself. His research and references dwarf the reasearch done on milk thistle.

Now before you go on mis quoting me and speaking of your extensive credentials, I'm not saying milk thistle don't work. I'm saying that the appropriate doses called for by medical science is for the casual person, one who doesn't drink a lot, use AAS, or tylenol related products. Studies have shown that the protective doses are WAY higher than the norm, which would make it much more expensive than the better options anyways.

I also know first hand that a gram of milk thistle is usless for anavar and opiate related drugs. My liver enzymes were to the point of liver failure. Within 4 months of NAC and vitamin C, they were in normal ranges. Read Atominis thread. Unless you just like living in 1994.

[Atomini]

So this Atomini guy comes along and instead of publishing his idea in the Journal of Medicine, he posts it here? LOL wow, so all those scientific studies proving its efficacy are now "theories"??? LMAO damn, I've been away from this board too long

Read through this whole thread before resorting to Ad Hominem attacks on me: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-ORAL-TOXICITY!!

You're putting on a very poor display of conference here thus far, and I haven't even discussed anything with you yet. I am far too busy to engage in a gigantic debate, so the least I can do at the moment is link you to the thread. Please read.

[warmouth]

Read through this whole thread before resorting to Ad Hominem attacks on me: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-ORAL-TOXICITY!!

You're putting on a very poor display of conference here thus far, and I haven't even discussed anything with you yet. I am far too busy to engage in a gigantic debate, so the least I can do at the moment is link you to the thread. Please read.

Bump.... Atomini wins! Read this again and it further boosts my confidence in milk thistle alternates. Thanks Atomini!

[Alpha-Male]

first off, in my tenure here (which you are correct, dates back long before any of you), I've seen many "pre-med experts" come and go, and Atomini, it wasn't a direct attack, I don't know you and I'm sure you are knowledgeable (although I read your Tren stickie and yes it was long and sounded very impressive, but sorry to say, contained nothing new that hasn't been published before numerous times here and on other sites...in fact, I actually remember when the stuff first came out...but I digress), I was merely commenting on one of these young bucks statements that dragged you into this debate, if you can call it that...if you are simply posting a link to a thread on this site, you are again spinning your wheels...I suppose that yes, I am old school, and I was around when Anthony, ooops, I mean Hooker composed the profile section and subsequently had the rest of the anabolic world blatantly plagiarize his work, and sorry, the majority of what I read here on this site tends to simply reiterate that information, hence the lack of posts Warmouth, and you'll find out once you mature little man, that there are some things that never change...therefore, giving you my "extensive credentials" is something that I think an intelligent person might listen to, but apparently this board has found it's new ass to sniff and that's okay...the point was to debunk your previous statement about the "normal person"...since 1994, I have ingested many things that a human liver would run scared from, and I have managed to maintain healthy numbers by merely taking 1200mg of milk thistle daily...I guarantee that at the very least, out of the three of you, I've attempted to do more damage to my liver, and kept it in perfect working condition by just using this product...no one who has time for 6000 posts on this board is too busy to debate...I on the other hand, have never found it necessary to get my post numbers up just so I can get the neat little title and color underneath my name...it's the same with the women, quality over quantity...bottom line, just as penicillin is a proven antibiotic that works just as good if not better than all of the newer antibiotics that have come along over the years, just as milk thistle is still a proven liver protectant that works JUST as good as anything else that's been discovered recently, period...and Warmouth, given that Anavar is one of the mildest orals on the liver, it's odd that you would lump it in with your liver issues, sounds to me like it was more attributed to your opiate use...hope you got help for that...and again, we are talking PREVENTION, not healing once your liver is damaged, milk thistle IS useless once you've ****ed your liver up, I never said otherwise...

And to Good Luck, umm, yeah, when the Journal of Endocrinology and Metabolism publishes their studies and findings online, for Dr.'s to reference (yes, I'm talking about the ones you need a login for and can only be accessed ONLINE by medical professionals), I would lean towards their accuracy, but hey, what do doctors and scientists know...LOL...too funny....

[Alpha-Male]

http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/...ical_medicine/

one of many articles...I promise fellas, go to google, click on 'more', then click 'scholar', type in "milk thistle liver protectant", and read as many as you like...it's really not that difficult...you don't have to be "PRE-MED" or whatever other title impresses you...the information is readily available...and no, I don't believe everything I read on the internet, which is why I don't take ANYONE'S word on here as gospel, food for thought...do your own research....

[MuscleInk]

Yes denamarin and silybin have been shown to support liver function. Most of the studies I have seen over the years have been entirely preclinical in various animal systems (bovine, canine, rodent). I haven't reviewed the literature lately. Is there anything recent looking at efficacy in humans? It would be great to see a controlled study among anabolic users but the kind of controlled studies needed would have serious ethical challenges.

[Alpha-Male]

Liver damage is liver damage my friend, pure and simple...the source is irrelevant...as I already mentioned, there are other things in this world that are just as if not more hepatotoxic than AAS, and the link I posted did involve studies in Humans...that's the point...MT has been around for such a long time, and is safe enough that they HAVE done studies with/on humans, and there is clear, empirical data showing that it is a very effective, potent liver PROTECTANT, period...that's why I was confused by the statement I read in a previous post on this thread labeling it as useless...LOL, I came here looking for info on Tbol, and just had to say something when I read that...regardless, as with most information here, a simple research session outside of the forum and you can usually get an answer to most of your questions...I never touted MT as a potent liver failure treatment protocol (even though there are some studies suggesting it's success), merely as the most cost-effective protectant, and I only used my "extensive credentials" as Warmouth put it, in order to give you a real life study...if he says there are guys on here saying they need 5-10G a day of the stuff in order for it to be effective, then he's talking to some unenlightened individuals to say the least...if you're only going to put stock into what I say based solely on the number of times I post on this site, then I suppose I'll take the punishment for having a life outside of the board, but guys, you need to take it upon yourselves to research these things, ALL things, on your own before blindly following advice given from people with cutsie avatars and nicknames (not directed at you Muscle, it's in general, and it's been that way on this site for many, many years)...all I know, I've been using AAS for several years, along with medications that are VERY harsh on the liver, and all I take is 1200mg/day of MT, and every 3-4 months my Rheumatologist gives me the thumbs up on my bloodwork...that, along with the numerous studies out there, is all I have to offer...be safe

Alpha