Best LIVER Support???

[MuscleInk]

I don't support the liver supplements...waste of money and bunch of marketing.

Also for scientific studies...they can be manipulated to show anything. I know many people who take orals with no liv support or who drink like fish....or both at the same time. None have liver problems.

Personally, if you are at the point in thinking you need a liver supplement, I think you are taking too much of whatever it is making you to think that way. So you should back down the dosage or time on and not use the liver supplements. Your liver is really really hard to **** up....and even if you do mess it up, it heals itself.

Really? Wow, I am writing the university for a refund on my medical degree. They lied to me!!!

....and I'll tell my patients in liver failure that they are faking it and should get up out of that hospital bed and go home right now!!!!!

[Chx beach 79]

If you are going to take oral's you might as well forget about a healthy liver! Have you thought about not taking oral steroids ?

[austinite]

Really? Wow, I am writing the university for a refund on my medical degree. They lied to me!!!

....and I'll tell my patients in liver failure that they are faking it and should get up out of that hospital bed and go home right now!!!!!

lmao. nice.

[MajorPectorial]

Really? Wow, I am writing the university for a refund on my medical degree. They lied to me!!!

....and I'll tell my patients in liver failure that they are faking it and should get up out of that hospital bed and go home right now!!!!!

Gotta watch those dodgy teachers with their forged PhD's. Think I'll change to oral only from now on. Pop em like Smarties. With a bottle of jack D's!

(Just incase. No. I'm not gunna (fake) messing my liver up)

[Allaaro]

You have a medical degree and yet you disagree that almost any test can be manipulated for the results desired? If you think because people have PhD's or any qualification of education their word is god you must have never been into the health care system since most doc's are out to lunch.

I didn't say liver values on bloodwork wouldn't move during orals....I said the damage heals itself and to really damage your liver you must be trying(Orals way overdosed/drinking/etc. ) or have a health problem even before using orals. I didn't say there was no such thing as liver failure.....and I'm sure most if not all those patients in the hospital with liver failure you talked to didn't come from oral usage/AAS.

When add up all your liver-52's, NACs and milk thistle crap...your now spending just as much on liver support as the cycle itself. If your doing PCT there is more $$$....if your doing that route I hope you got cash to spare. How many people do you know from AAS who messed up their liver? Was their cycle retarded in orals dosage? Did they drink? Doing 8 weeks of 50mg dbol or something like that isn't going to hurt your liver enough to need all those supplements. Now is your running 100mg dbol per day and 100mg anadrol .....and going out drinking on the weekend, yeah...good luck.

[austinite]

You have a medical degree and yet you disagree that almost any test can be manipulated for the results desired? If you think because people have PhD's or any qualification of education their word is god you must have never been into the health care system since most doc's are out to lunch.

I didn't say liver values on bloodwork wouldn't move during orals....I said the damage heals itself and to really damage your liver you must be trying(Orals way overdosed/drinking/etc. ) or have a health problem even before using orals. I didn't say there was no such thing as liver failure.....and I'm sure most if not all those patients in the hospital with liver failure you talked to didn't come from oral usage/AAS.

When add up all your liver-52's, NACs and milk thistle crap...your now spending just as much on liver support as the cycle itself. If your doing PCT there is more $$$....if your doing that route I hope you got cash to spare. How many people do you know from AAS who messed up their liver? Was their cycle retarded in orals dosage? Did they drink? Doing 8 weeks of 50mg dbol or something like that isn't going to hurt your liver enough to need all those supplements. Now is your running 100mg dbol per day and 100mg anadrol.....and going out drinking on the weekend, yeah...good luck.

lol, really? Because it cost me about 7 dollars to clean my liver values up with NAC. Seriously Allaro, you're not thinking straight. That statement is beyond silly, brother.

[gator_mclusky]

You have a medical degree and yet you disagree that almost any test can be manipulated for the results desired? If you think because people have PhD's or any qualification of education their word is god you must have never been into the health care system since most doc's are out to lunch.

I didn't say liver values on bloodwork wouldn't move during orals....I said the damage heals itself and to really damage your liver you must be trying(Orals way overdosed/drinking/etc. ) or have a health problem even before using orals. I didn't say there was no such thing as liver failure.....and I'm sure most if not all those patients in the hospital with liver failure you talked to didn't come from oral usage/AAS.

When add up all your liver-52's, NACs and milk thistle crap...your now spending just as much on liver support as the cycle itself. If your doing PCT there is more $$$....if your doing that route I hope you got cash to spare. How many people do you know from AAS who messed up their liver? Was their cycle retarded in orals dosage? Did they drink? Doing 8 weeks of 50mg dbol or something like that isn't going to hurt your liver enough to need all those supplements. Now is your running 100mg dbol per day and 100mg anadrol.....and going out drinking on the weekend, yeah...good luck.

Well put. In 22 yrs Ive never used any liver support and the most I had were elevated enzymes and like Alarro said.....they returned to normal. The best Liv support is simply drinking alot of water. Very simple yet effective.

[Fiskevatten]

Correct me if i'm wrong to state the obvious, but isn't it mostly depending on genetics? For example fully healthy kids heart just stop at soccer practise or an athletes artery in the brain
just suddenly pop?
So basically take the safe before the unsafe.
I agree on the water, tho i hate drinking water -.-

Also OT, to bump the thread, i've heard that some liver supplements can decrease some steroids effectiveness. Is that true, anyone know more?

[austinite]

10% of the US population have some sort of CKD (Chronic kidney disease) - take that into consideration when blabbering about your great your liver values are and coupling it with toxic drugs. I doubt any of you ever got any blood work. You probably need to do double RBC's, too.

[Lagoon Das]

"LIV 52 DS" by Himalaya is the best liver support.

[spywizard]

i run liv 52

[gymfu]

I wonder if any of you spouting all this nonsense have ever gotten your blood work done?

Elevated liver enzymes don't mean liver damage, it's a marker used to tell the stress load of the liver function.

I happen to be a example of someone who's liver enzymes aren't just magically healing up. After a 12 week test/tren cycle I was off everything for 16 weeks and my liver enzymes barrely moved.

I'm am experimenting now with some different liver aids to see what works.

[AnabolicDoc]

I just wanted to clear something up, elevated liver enzymes mean two things:

1) If AST and ALT (sometimes known as SGOT, SGPT) are elevated that is an indication of liver cell death (hepatocellular necrosis).

2) If ALK PHOS is elevated (as well as GGT and/or AST/ALT, as GGT is not always tested) that indicates billiary tree damage and/or bile flow obstruction.

If ALK is elevated (and GGT is normal or if not tested, then AST/ALT are normal) this indicates that a (non-specific) underlying bone disease process is occurring.

If liver function is compromised, such as in cirrhosis, then there will be a decrease in the many things it synthesizes: platelets, albumin, cholesterol, and clotting factors (and therefore increased PT/INR and aPTT) - there may be more, this is just the commonly looked for markers of synthetic liver function.

[AD]

I wonder if any of you spouting all this nonsense have ever gotten your blood work done?

Elevated liver enzymes don't mean liver damage, it's a marker used to tell the stress load of the liver function.

I happen to be a example of someone who's liver enzymes aren't just magically healing up. After a 12 week test/tren cycle I was off everything for 16 weeks and my liver enzymes barrely moved.

I'm am experimenting now with some different liver aids to see what works.

You mean the readings are still high long after the cycle? Any idea how were they before the cycle?

[austinite]

You mean the readings are still high long after the cycle? Any idea how were they before the cycle?

I can't get my liver enzymes down!!!!!!

[AD]

I can't get my liver enzymes down!!!!!!

Ok. Just finished reading.

Might be a good idea to look for another reason for the raised enzymes (liver damage) if you haven't done so yet, instead of assuming its from the juice. Ultrasound/CT scan. Viral hepatitis markers. Any family history? Any long term meds other than gear?

[AnabolicDoc]

I wonder if any of you spouting all this nonsense have ever gotten your blood work done?

Elevated liver enzymes don't mean liver damage, it's a marker used to tell the stress load of the liver function.

I happen to be a example of someone who's liver enzymes aren't just magically healing up. After a 12 week test/tren cycle I was off everything for 16 weeks and my liver enzymes barrely moved.

I'm am experimenting now with some different liver aids to see what works.

I just looked at the thread you started, that Austin posted. Your levels aren't high enough to be caused by a virus but it certainly wouldn't hurt to check. The likely culprits in your case are meds, as AD said, if you're on any, chronic (moderate) alcohol use (ASH = Alcoholic SteatoHepatitis) - as they'd likely be higher with chronic severe use, and/or fatty liver disease (NAFLD = Non Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease). You don't need to be overweight to get NAFLD as I think it can happen from dramatic weight loss as well. If your ALK PHOS is high, that would increase the chances, although not definitively, that this may be AAS induced. I am unaware that NAC can treat this as effectively as UDCA but I am confident that Austin knows what he is taking about. With that being said, it looks like you've tried NAC and a few other remedies with no avail. I would suggest that you talk to your doc about an abdominal ultrasound (which includes your liver), again as suggested by AD, and UDCA, which your doc will likely know as ursodiol, at 500mg 2x per day (or 300mg 4x per day) with a fatty meal (assuming you weigh 170lbs - 220lbs). UDCA is currently the treatment of choice for AAS induced hepatitis.

Do you have your ALK PHOS and possibly GGT levels from any of those blood draws that includes liver enzymes that you posted.

If you're very concerned, you could see a hepatologist, which is a GI doctor that exclusively treats liver disease.

[Emerald]

In Canada liv 52 is called liver support and I take 4 daily.

[whiteboyy09]

Nac and milk thistle are both really good

[gymfu]

You mean the readings are still high long after the cycle? Any idea how were they before the cycle?

Yes, 16 weeks off everything but my TRT and enzymes were at 93 and 50, I think.

They were on the high side of normal before I started. I always get bloodwork done before, durring, and post cycle.

[gymfu]

Ok. Just finished reading.

Might be a good idea to look for another reason for the raised enzymes (liver damage) if you haven't done so yet, instead of assuming its from the juice. Ultrasound/CT scan. Viral hepatitis markers. Any family history? Any long term meds other than gear?

I'm sure it's just the gear, I might have a weak liver, my mom has had elevated enzymes in the past and she has a very clean life style.

[gymfu]

I just looked at the thread you started, that Austin posted. Your levels aren't high enough to be caused by a virus but it certainly wouldn't hurt to check. The likely culprits in your case are meds, as AD said, if you're on any, chronic (moderate) alcohol use (ASH = Alcoholic SteatoHepatitis) - as they'd likely be higher with chronic severe use, and/or fatty liver disease (NAFLD = Non Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease). You don't need to be overweight to get NAFLD as I think it can happen from dramatic weight loss as well. If your ALK PHOS is high, that would increase the chances, although not definitively, that this may be AAS induced. I am unaware that NAC can treat this as effectively as UDCA but I am confident that Austin knows what he is taking about. With that being said, it looks like you've tried NAC and a few other remedies with no avail. I would suggest that you talk to your doc about an abdominal ultrasound (which includes your liver), again as suggested by AD, and UDCA, which your doc will likely know as ursodiol, at 500mg 2x per day (or 300mg 4x per day) with a fatty meal (assuming you weigh 170lbs - 220lbs). UDCA is currently the treatment of choice for AAS induced hepatitis.

Do you have your ALK PHOS and possibly GGT levels from any of those blood draws that includes liver enzymes that you posted.

If you're very concerned, you could see a hepatologist, which is a GI doctor that exclusively treats liver disease.

Hey, thanks for the response. To answer some of your questions, I don't drink any alcohol, maybe one or two drinks a year. I weigh 220. I have heard some people speaking very good things about synthergine, so I will be trying that. This is my plan:
Synthergine, as recommended on bottle
NAC, 1200mg x3/day
Liv52, 2 tabs x3/day
TUDCA, 450mg x2/day

I will be getting more bloodwork done in about 5 more weeks.

I would really like to not get my doc involved.

I have never had any more of an extensive panel done, just AST/ALT, I will look into the other markers you asked about.

Thanks.

[AnabolicDoc]

No problem. Keep me posted and feel free to PM me if you'd like.

Just curious, why don't you want your doc involved? Everyone has high liver enzymes nowadays - you don't have to specify AAS use. It would be great if you could get an ultrasound of your liver.

[gymfu]

No problem. Keep me posted and feel free to PM me if you'd like.

Just curious, why don't you want your doc involved? Everyone has high liver enzymes nowadays - you don't have to specify AAS use. It would be great if you could get an ultrasound of your liver.

Thanks for your help and you seem to know what your talking about so I will let you know how it goes.

What do you think about my plan for recovery?

If I can't get them down on my own I guess I will have to involve him. I don't ever plan on admitting to AAS use to any doc because I don't want it in my record.

I'm not too concerned about my health as I'm almost absolutely certain this is from the tren cycle because they were normal when I started.

[austinite]

Anabolic doc is not a doc. He just plays one on TV! haha, jk. He's great. This turned out to be a very informative thread.

[AnabolicDoc]

Anabolic doc is not a doc. He just plays one on TV! haha, jk. He's great. This turned out to be a very informative thread.

Trust me I wish so much that I was an actor rather than a doc :-)

[AnabolicDoc]

Thanks for your help and you seem to know what your talking about so I will let you know how it goes.

What do you think about my plan for recovery?

If I can't get them down on my own I guess I will have to involve him. I don't ever plan on admitting to AAS use to any doc because I don't want it in my record.

I'm not too concerned about my health as I'm almost absolutely certain this is from the tren cycle because they were normal when I started.

It looks like you've included everything. That much NAC will make you gassy in a very very smelly way. I just wonder that bc you've already tried NAC and Liv52 before and didn't have great results, maybe you'll be ok with just UDCA/TUDCA as I'm not aware of any synergy (although there may very well be). As far as synthergine, I've never heard of it. Either way I think as long as you use TUDCA/UDCA you should be fine if it is AAS related.

But if you do include your doc, you don't have to tell him about AAS use. Elevated LFTs are so incredibly common. Just let him do routine blood work and he'll address it himself. You can always tell him that you're on TRT if you want as that can sometimes cause mild LFT elevations.

[TylerFallon]

NAC
Liver Support (Get on bodybuilding.com)
Livercare/Liv52. Take all the the same time. The Liv52 is the only one that has been studied on.. These 3 products together should have you protected. Just be careful buying Liv52 online because I find a lot of it is fake! make sure the bottles are sealed

[Twack]

NAC
Liver Support (Get on bodybuilding.com)
Livercare/Liv52. Take all the the same time. The Liv52 is the only one that has been studied on.. These 3 products together should have you protected. Just be careful buying Liv52 online because I find a lot of it is fake! make sure the bottles are sealed

LGI Damage control has everything you need to keep your liver in shape-everything and way cheaper then Liv52


N-acetyl L-Cysteine (NAC) 500mg
Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10 Natural/Ubidecarenone) 100mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 150mg
Hawthorne Berry 200mg
Celery Seed 75mg
Saw Palmetto (std. min 18% fatty acids)(berries) 200mg
Quercetin Anhydrous (min. 95%) HPLC 150mg
SAMe 52% (S-Adenosyl Methionine Tosylate Disulfate) 400mg
Bupleurum Powder 500mg
TUDCA Sodium (as Tauroursodeoxycholic Acid Sodium) 200mg

[Allaaro]

I got some NAC...honestly didn't realize how cheap it was since only seen it in health food stores with ridiculous prices.

[gymfu]

NAC
Liver Support (Get on bodybuilding.com)
Livercare/Liv52. Take all the the same time. The Liv52 is the only one that has been studied on.. These 3 products together should have you protected. Just be careful buying Liv52 online because I find a lot of it is fake! make sure the bottles are sealed

Thanks but I've used all that and it's not working. I've had bloodwork to check.

[JAY_WD]

So is any type of liver support meant to be taken at the same time as taking the orals or only after the oral steroids have ceased?
Eg dbol 4 weeks @ 50mg per week, then start liver support start of 5th week?

If to be taken at the same time, do any of these have the impact to hinder gains or have all of you still gained nicely with orals and liver support at the same time?

[austinite]

So is any type of liver support meant to be taken at the same time as taking the orals or only after the oral steroids have ceased?
Eg dbol 4 weeks @ 50mg per week, then start liver support start of 5th week?

If to be taken at the same time, do any of these have the impact to hinder gains or have all of you still gained nicely with orals and liver support at the same time?

No. Take liver support on cycle, everyday.

Dbol @50mg per week? You mean per day?

[JAY_WD]

No. Take liver support on cycle, everyday.

Dbol @50mg per week? You mean per day?

Ha ha correct, per day, my bad...

Austinite a friend of mine wil actually using your recipe for increased vascularity whilst on cycle.

Safe to say the the post work out L-Cysteine of 1-2g will assist with not only the vascularity but the liver support too??

[austinite]

Ha ha correct, per day, my bad...

Austinite a friend of mine wil actually using your recipe for increased vascularity whilst on cycle.

Safe to say the the post work out L-Cysteine of 1-2g will assist with not only the vascularity but the liver support too??

Well, for liver support just get some NAC. If it's injectables, use 1200mg daily, if orals are present, run 1800 to 2400 per day.

[JAY_WD]

Well, for liver support just get some NAC. If it's injectables, use 1200mg daily, if orals are present, run 1800 to 2400 per day.

1800-2400mg per day for 4 weeks of dbol and then reduce to 1200mg for balance of cycle?

Do you know of NAC, Liv52 or Milk Thistle have a negative impact on orals an therefore gains??

[redhawk01]

Nvrmnd

[AnabolicDoc]

Well, for liver support just get some NAC. If it's injectables, use 1200mg daily, if orals are present, run 1800 to 2400 per day.

I was going to send u a PM but I figured other ppl would want to know as well, why do you recommend NAC over TUDCA/UDCA for liver support against AAS? I like them together, but if I had to choose one I would choose TUDCA/UDCA (whereas you would choose NAC). Is it bc of easier availability of NAC? NAC's other protective qualities?

[austinite]

I'll write something today in the supp section and show you all points, the differences and why NAC overall is better. I'll link to it from here when I'm done.

[AnabolicDoc]

I wasn't trying to put you out, I just wanted to hear your thoughts and reasons.