First cycle Advice

[hamburgertime]

Ok so how does this sound for a cycle?
THE CYCLE
1-10 weeks of test prop 140mg EOD
1-10 weeks Arimidex .25mg whenever i feel bloated. (I will get my estrogen checked at week 5)
last week of the cycle I might blast 500ius HCG ED for a week. but from what i hear, at such a low dose of test it's probably not even necessary.

PCT (1 week after last injection)
Clomid 50mg for 30days
Nolvadex 40mg for 10days, then 20mg for 20 days.
armidex EOD .25mg for 10 days.


EDIT: alright i had this cycle in a word document. and hadn't revised it since i originally wrote it. so i can see how i was getting some hate. I revised it now



My stats, because I know ya’ll are going to ask.
I’m 5’9.7 (almost 5’10) and 165lbs
I know my weight Is nothing special, but I just have problems gaining weight. I can shoulder press 70lb dumbbells for 10 reps (in a shoulder press chair, not one of those incline benches) and bent over row about 155lbs for 10 reps, for what its worht. maybe thats not impressive either..



anyways I have BIG questinon I know in my cycle i put down Armidex. Well i don't know where to get Armidex. Theres this online pharmacy that sells "Armotraz" 1mg -30pills for $90

Is this a good price/ idea?? where do yall get yours? you can hit up my Prime Minister if you don't want to post it in the thread.

[marcus300]

The cycle is awful and you really need to do a lot more research, check out the education threads but in all h0nesty your nowhere near ready to cycle. You need to build a bigger base and if you cant do this naturally at your weight and height then it will be a complete waste of time cycling anyway because you will lose everything after the cycle ends due to your diet not being good enough to support any new tissue..

How old are you?

[marcus300]

No price talk please.

you can get all pct meds form the sponsor at the top right-hand corner ar-r

[hamburgertime]

The cycle is awful and you really need to do a lot more research, check out the education threads but in all h0nesty your nowhere near ready to cycle. You need to build a bigger base and if you cant do this naturally at your weight and height then it will be a complete waste of time cycling anyway because you will lose everything after the cycle ends due to your diet not being good enough to support any new tissue..

How old are you?

I'm 21. Man, here's the thing. I have a killer physique. (no brag) All my friends compliement me on it, and talk about how they wish they had it. I didn't eat alot in high school and did a bunch of Dr ugs a few years back and i only weighed 135lbs maybe 3 years ago.

I'm doing the best with what I've got. I'm eating every 5 times a day. sometimes 7



edit: hmmmm that website sells "liquid clen " and other products with steroid names. steroids are illegal.. and this is appears to be a legitimate website. well the liquid clen is obvioulsy fake. so why wouldn't the PCT be fake?

listen man i see what you're doing here. you're trying to teach me a lesson by punking me, but the Test I'm doing is REAl, so i need REAL PCT. I understand real armidex is illegal without a prescription, but sometimes you can get generic types with an Rx.....

[marcus300]

I'm 21. Man, here's the thing. I have a killer physique. (no brag) All my friends compliement me on it, and talk about how they wish they had it. I didn't eat alot in high school and did a bunch of Dr ugs a few years back and i only weighed 135lbs maybe 3 years ago.

I'm doing the best with what I've got. I'm eating every 5 times a day. sometimes 7

If you cant carry on gaining size at your weight and height it will be pointless in using steroids because you will lose all the gains because you don't eat enough. If your not gaining your not eating enough or training hard enough.

Your also too young for steroids, your natural test hasn't full developed yet and by shutting it down you can cause yourself a load of problems you wished you never had at your age, read this it will help.

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

[crazy mike]

OP you say you are prone to Gyno and you plan to use it on and off, when you feel bloated?? Did I hear correctly ? ...crazy mike

[crazy mike]

Very good post Marcus. A clear and distinct message. Op I hope you take heed, Marcus is right on !!!! ...crazy mike

[hamburgertime]

If you cant carry on gaining size at your weight and height it will be pointless in using steroids because you will lose all the gains because you don't eat enough. If your not gaining your not eating enough or training hard enough.

Your also too young for steroids, your natural test hasn't full developed yet and by shutting it down you can cause yourself a load of problems you wished you never had at your age, read this it will help.

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

I don't want to sound pretentious, but i already new this. Got some blood work back today and my test levels are 329ng/dl which is below average. and i feel that the "average" is messed up by the fact that we take in 80 year diabetics into the mix and such. I don't believe it's going to get much better than this. I might be slightly higher 4 years down the road, but then those levels are just going to drop in another 4 years so **** it whats the point in waiting?

[marcus300]

I don't want to sound pretentious, but i already new this. Got some blood work back today and my test levels are 329ng/dl which is below average. and i feel that the "average" is messed up by the fact that we take in 80 year diabetics into the mix and such. I don't believe it's going to get much better than this. I might be slightly higher 4 years down the road, but then those levels are just going to drop in another 4 years so **** it whats the point in waiting?

Do you really want to fuk yourself up for good if so ignore my advice..............

[hamburgertime]

Do you really want to fuk yourself up for good if so ignore my advice..............

that's a baseless statement and you know it. You have no way of knowing that.

[marcus300]

that's a baseless statement and you know it. You have no way of knowing that.

Well your 21 yrs old 165lbs at 5ft 10" and need steroids to get bigger! you don't know how to eat to gain size otherwise you would be a lot bigger. You want to shut down your natural test before its fully developed go ahead and see what happens, you will lose all the weight you put on plus more because your body and diet wont support any new tissue and your test levels will be lower so its a big no no.

Anyone can see that your diet and training needs work and you also need to wait a few years. You come here asking for advice from people who know what they are talking about and you just ignore it or wont take it in, that's your choice but I can see I am wasting my time and effort so best of luck to you I wont comment again....

[MuscleInk]

that's a baseless statement and you know it. You have no way of knowing that.

Not baseless. Exogenous anabolics will shunt your endogenous pathway and physiological production. It is entirely possible you will not recover normal physiological function and your endogenous levels will remain suppressed. Secondary sequela will include ED, loss of libido, depression, and more.

Plenty of threads on here from young men who did NOT heed the advice only to find out the hard way (or limp way) that they should have been a little more humble and less hasty.

[hamburgertime]

Not baseless. Exogenous anabolics will shunt your endogenous pathway and physiological production. It is entirely possible you will not recover normal physiological function and your endogenous levels will remain suppressed. Secondary sequela will include ED, loss of libido, depression, and more.

Plenty of threads on here from young men who did NOT heed the advice only to find out the hard way (or limp way) that they should have been a little more humble and less hasty.

i think its possible for production to get shut down obviously. i also think its possible to have your natural production at a fraction at what it used to be, but i think its ridiculous to believe that production stops 100% and never starts up again. it's not like your balls fall off after a cycle. all the components for test production are still there..

[MuscleInk]

i think its possible for production to get shut down obviously. i also think its possible to have your natural production at a fraction at what it used to be, but i think its ridiculous to believe that production stops 100% and never starts up again. it's not like your balls fall off after a cycle. all the compenents for test production are still there..

You sound like one of my medical residents who thinks they have it all figured out.

It comes down to this. YOU came here seeking advice. We didn't drag you in and we aren't holding you captive. You can take the advice or pretend to know more than guys who have trained harder and longer than you've been alive and know more about every anabolic imaginable. These guys aren't paid for their time here any more than you are. They offer their time and input free of charge and believe you me, guys like Marcus aren't flapping their gums - they are living the success kids like you are chasing.

So you're free to do as you please. We won't fault you for your decision. It's your life, your HTPA, your nuts. Just don't be one of those guys that whines in a thread later that his junk doesn't work, he lost his gains, and is desperate for help to fix what you broke.

Be safe. Be smart. Good luck.

[MuscleInk]

Here's a prime example of what we're talking about....and there will be more threads like this all damn day.

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...12-months.html

I bet this guy thought he knew best too.

[crazy mike]

Hamburg, you asked "First Cycle Advice" and you got it also the answer to the specific Q , I believe. What more do you need to hear. The advice given is solid, I've seen and I've heard and as far as Gyno I have experience, so after all my years I think I know better than you. AND they are correct, by the way I've got 40 yrs. on you. Yep I am 61 and was a competitive bodybuilder back in the 80's. So I've seen much and heard and witness more than you could even dream and I reiterate this advice from Marcus and MuscleInk is solid and there is all kinds of source info on this. It is not a theory as you theorize by yourself. ...crazy mike

[hamburgertime]

whatever. i appreciate the rhetorical advice i guess.

you look overweight in your avi.

and markus doesn't even have a real avi.

[Red Bastard]

whatever. i appreciate the rhetorical advice i guess.

you look overweight in your avi.

and markus doesn't even have a real avi.

Lol! Typical punk kid, with a chip on his shoulder, resorting to insults. A sure sign that he ain't ready to "play with the big boys"....

[MuscleInk]

whatever. i appreciate the rhetorical advice i guess.

you look overweight in your avi.

and markus doesn't even have a real avi.

THAT's your reply!?! Ingenious. Good luck wrecking yourself Sally.

[Capebuffalo]

whatever. i appreciate the rhetorical advice i guess.

you look overweight in your avi.

and markus doesn't even have a real avi.

I love this guy. He just brightened my day. Ha.

[MuscleInk]

Lol! Typical punk kid, with a chip on his shoulder, resorting to insults. A sure sign that he ain't ready to "play with the big boys"....

Exactly. Probably some fat pimpled boy sitting on his ass playing Xbox sipping slurpees all day.

Heaviest thing he likely lifts is a Dorito. Lol

[hamburgertime]

Hamburg, you asked "First Cycle Advice" and you got it also the answer to the specific Q , I believe. What more do you need to hear. The advice given is solid, I've seen and I've heard and as far as Gyno I have experience, so after all my years I think I know better than you. AND they are correct, by the way I've got 40 yrs. on you. Yep I am 61 and was a competitive bodybuilder back in the 80's. So I've seen much and heard and witness more than you could even dream and I reiterate this advice from Marcus and MuscleInk is solid and there is all kinds of source info on this. It is not a theory as you theorize by yourself. ...crazy mike

well when i said "first cycle advice" i looking more of a critique of the cycle itself. is it underdosed, should i pin EOD instead of ED? what did yall do for your first cycles? stuff like that.

I never asked for life counseling advice. If i wanted peope to preach at me I would have went to a ****ing steroid church. Maybe thats what this place is idk. I'm just saying. At the end of the day I'm still doing this cycle and so far you haven't done anything but talk shit.

[Capebuffalo]

Ok. That's about enough. Move it on down the road bud.

You didn't get the answer you wanted. Start another thread and ask again. Then again and again. You'll find what your looking for.

[Red Bastard]

well when i said "first cycle advice" i looking more of a critique of the cycle itself. is it underdosed, should i pin EOD instead of ED? what did yall do for your first cycles? stuff like that.

I never asked for life counseling advice. If i wanted peope to preach at me I would have went to a ****ing steroid church. Maybe thats what this place is idk. I'm just saying. At the end of the day I'm still doing this cycle and so far you haven't done anything but talk shit.

If you've spent any time reading threads here, you would have to be stupid to not know how this would go. There are hundreds of threads, exactly like yours!!

But, guess what. Every question that you could possibly ask, has been, many times. Heck, the stickies are loaded with all the info that you need. If you didn't want to be told the honest truth, then you shouldn't have asked! Just read, learn, and do what you want to do. No one will stop you. It's your life, kid...

[crazy mike]

whatever. i appreciate the rhetorical advice i guess.

you look overweight in your avi.

and markus doesn't even have a real avi.

And so you have a comment in regard to my photo at age 61 being back in the gym for 8 months of training after a 25 yr layoff. I mean this is you well informed and educated come back, that he/she or whom ever looks like what? Fat, no Av? Your immaturity and ignorance is preceding you. HEY, you say you have some great physique, how about posting a pic and let us see what your friends see. Put it up next to my little scrawny a$$ at my age. ...crazy old mike

[hamburgertime]

for some reason alot of people on this site are keyboard warriors and probably insecure. its pretty transparent.

Marcus is probably very knowledgeable, has had success with gear, and is probably a really cool guy. he probably just doesn't want giving advice to a kid on his conscious.

crazymike you seem like a cool guy too, but i wish you actually helped me out rahter than try to undermine my confidence.

everyone else is coming off as a complete and total phaggots. they literally remind me of the seething at the mouth insecure virgins i meet at parties who just rip on people cause they can't get any *****

[hamburgertime]

And so you have a comment in regard to my photo at age 61 being back in the gym for 8 months of training after a 25 yr layoff. I mean this is you well informed and educated come back, that he/she or whom ever looks like what? Fat, no Av? Your immaturity and ignorance is preceding you. HEY, you say you have some great physique, how about posting a pic and let us see what your friends see. Put it up next to my little scrawny a$$ at my age. ...crazy old mike

mike i was not talking about you at all! i was talking about muscle ink. sorry about the confusion

[hamburgertime]

Exactly. Probably some fat pimpled boy sitting on his ass playing Xbox sipping slurpees all day.

Heaviest thing he likely lifts is a Dorito. Lol

dude the only part of your physique i can see is your forearm and it looks pretty normal looking. nothing special about it lol.


you honestly look overweight. i would suggest you spend some time on the treadmill and maybe take a look at your diet, because if your on AAS then there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with what you're doing... lmao

[crazy mike]

well when i said "first cycle advice" i looking more of a critique of the cycle itself. is it underdosed, should i pin EOD instead of ED? what did yall do for your first cycles? stuff like that.

I never asked for life counseling advice. If i wanted peope to preach at me I would have went to a ****ing steroid church. Maybe thats what this place is idk. I'm just saying. At the end of the day I'm still doing this cycle and so far you haven't done anything but talk shit.

My first cycle was in 1981/82 and it was Test Cyp once a week injection. If you can't figure out that ED injections are hard on you as apposed to EOD or weekly then I don't know about your common sense. Also by you saying AI when you feel bloated is a stupid statement and plan. This shows you are in the dark, but when I addressed it you had no reply and this is a very important thing. Very important and you say you are prone to Gyno. I held back buy now I will say, "YOU SOUND STUIPID" take that to steroid church and pray over it. ...crazy mike

Now just post that picture and show us that physique, surprise us , me. Still what about this Gyno. Lets get that straight. ...cm

[Back In Black]

for some reason alot of people on this site are keyboard warriors and probably insecure. its pretty transparent.

Marcus is probably very knowledgeable, has had success with gear, and is probably a really cool guy. he probably just doesn't want giving advice to a kid on his conscious.

crazymike you seem like a cool guy too, but i wish you actually helped me out rahter than try to undermine my confidence.

everyone else is coming off as a complete and total phaggots. they literally remind me of the seething at the mouth insecure virgins i meet at parties who just rip on people cause they can't get any *****

Enjoy your short time here kid, there are other sites that won't care about your health as MI stated.

[Times Roman]

for some reason alot of people on this site are keyboard warriors and probably insecure. its pretty transparent.

Marcus is probably very knowledgeable, has had success with gear, and is probably a really cool guy. he probably just doesn't want giving advice to a kid on his conscious.

crazymike you seem like a cool guy too, but i wish you actually helped me out rahter than try to undermine my confidence.

everyone else is coming off as a complete and total phaggots. they literally remind me of the seething at the mouth insecure virgins i meet at parties who just rip on people cause they can't get any *****

so I'm a phaggot now too?

Strike two mate.

Either learn to play well with others......

.........or the exit signs are clearly visible.

Your choice

---Roman

[SexySweetheart]

for some reason alot of people on this site are keyboard warriors and probably insecure. its pretty transparent.

Marcus is probably very knowledgeable, has had success with gear, and is probably a really cool guy. he probably just doesn't want giving advice to a kid on his conscious.

crazymike you seem like a cool guy too, but i wish you actually helped me out rahter than try to undermine my confidence.

everyone else is coming off as a complete and total phaggots. they literally remind me of the seething at the mouth insecure virgins i meet at parties who just rip on people cause they can't get any *****

PLAY NICE, the fellas are here to help per your request.
may not be what you wanna hear but they are strait shooters and being very blunt with you for your own benefit.

[hamburgertime]

My first cycle was in 1981/82 and it was Test Cyp once a week injection. If you can't figure out that ED injections are hard on you as apposed to EOD or weekly then I don't know about your common sense. Also by you saying AI when you feel bloated is a stupid statement and plan. This shows you are in the dark, but when I addressed it you had no reply and this is a very important thing. Very important and you say you are prone to Gyno. I held back buy now I will say, "YOU SOUND STUIPID" take that to steroid church and pray over it. ...crazy mike

Now just post that picture and show us that physique, surprise us , me. Still what about this Gyno. Lets get that straight. ...cm

i got gyno in middle school. and by gyno i mean my nips were puffy and super sensitive. i never developed breast tissue. but I think that's still something to be concerned about and mention.

yea i know. I know i should get my estrogen levels checked half way through the cycle. so like week 5 i guess. Obviously injecting ED vs weekly is going to be harder, which is why i decided to do EOD and before you tell me EOD is still hard on virgin muscles i honestly don't care. every single time someone tells me something is going to be painful it ends up not being nearly as bad as they made it out to be. and from what i've read test prop is my fav.

the cycle i posted was a copy and paste from a word document when i first wrote it up. i forgot to change some things as i learned.

how much test cyp did you do a week?

[MajorPectorial]

You know if u got gyno natty even just a lil bit you got a helluva big chance of getting it tenfold.

Anyway. I'm not gunna go into the age thing or the cycle. Or the biting on the flames. Bored of it all. N at 21. Juss take it. Cuz its gunna happen. Shit. At 32. I've been flamed on routines where I didn't clearly state it right. No big deal. N yeh. Marcus us seriously one worth watching on his progress thread. Gbrice is probs the best in reference to your diet n I'm not saying its wrong I'm just saying there is always always always room for improvement. You know? Mike n kel n Marcus. Ink. Bib. All these people will tell you things you don't wanna hear. Things u might not of asked for. But think about it. They are only trying to do what's best for you ya know?. N yeh. Might come across hot as hell flaming ur ass. So what. No big deal. Ur 21. Ppl gunna shout to stop ppl doin something silly. Its life.

Anyways. Research some more on ur cycle. If ur gunna do it. I'd look into a relatively short burst cycle with good ai. Maybe even couple different types. As diff ppl react in diff ways. Look into how steroids n different compounds work as regards to aromatization etc. Some make the mistake of wiping est out n wonder why they're joints are screwed amongst a million other things. Seriously. U could read up on so many aspects for years. N you will still need to know more.

Take the advice. However hard. N just think about it. Think n read up. Make sure this is 100% your choice. Please don't rush mate. U got a lifetime you know?. Just think on it. I'm not gunna bother trying to sway u either way. Its your life. I'm just want you to think on it. Come back after you've read up. People will help u. But they won't hurt you?. Get my drift?.

*** but I'd like to see a pic if that's cool.

N I'd like to see flaming on both sides stop even more.
Its funny. For a while. But it ain't useful.

Pic pic pic plz.

[crazy mike]

i got gyno in middle school. and by gyno i mean my nips were puffy and super sensitive. i never developed breast tissue. but I think that's still something to be concerned about and mention.

yea i know. I know i should get my estrogen levels checked half way through the cycle. so like week 5 i guess. Obviously injecting ED vs weekly is going to be harder, which is why i decided to do EOD and before you tell me EOD is still hard on virgin muscles i honestly don't care. every single time someone tells me something is going to be painful it ends up not being nearly as bad as they made it out to be. and from what i've read test prop is my fav.

the cycle i posted was a copy and paste from a word document when i first wrote it up. i forgot to change some things as i learned.

how much test cyp did you do a week?

You can't base your dose on me or anyone for that matter. With me my age and past is a significant factor, then my ecto body, and my current weight as well as my past endurance and past weight gains.
I've done 250 mgs wk, 400 mgs wk, 500mgs wk typical, 750/800 mgs with Test c , E and a combination of Test P and E. Right now what I'm on and what i'm doing is of no concern or relation to what you can or should do.

Basically you should not be doing any , we talked and then if so a simple Test beginners cycle start to finish as laid out on this forum, suggested on here in many places.
Beginners being Test @ 400-500 mg wk with the protocol of Ai and PCT being at the end. We said that and now we are getting redundant. ...crazy mike

[John Cluso]

Sally, this is the real world(not xbox) you got grown up, real world advice.