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Thread: Begginer cycle *Researched. Need invalidation?

  1. #1
    Koios is offline New Member
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    Begginer cycle *Researched. Need invalidation?

    Hello all. After thoroughly researching gear/pct on this forum and others I've put together my 1st cycle based on the researched compiled by respected forum members and logic regarding safest noobie cycles. My priority here is safety. However, I'm looking for validation before proceeding further.

    PLEASE READ:

    When I did this research the dosages were based of off 500mg of Test E for 12 weeks. I cannot no longer find who said/wrote this but (I remember these guy's were also experienced and rich with knowledge and said that that 'Test E peaks (or matures) if that's the correct terminology around weeks 5-8...but that around the 10th week it's bio-availability starts to diminish and makes no sense to run it for 12 weeks.... even though it's a longer ester. ??

    From the reading I've done the only argument made not running a minimum of 500mg of test e for 12 weeks is limited gains/waste? Is that really the case? Wouldn't 300mg (1 pin per week) be enough for a first timer? It seems some just clearly think the more the better - which isn't the case. I would like for those who are knowledgeable to chime in. Is there anything under/over dosed. Does the time frame look legit? Same goes for the anti-astrogens- are the dosages too high for just 300mg of test e/week?

    My stats:

    Age: 27
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 198
    BF: ~8% Lifting/BB Experience: 3 years

    I've competed and won in natty comps. I've have thorough knowledge on dieting, contest prep, training, etc..... no meathead issues here but that's besides the point. Looking to branch out and take the physique to another level.

    CYCLES

    Weeks 1-8: Test E - 300mg
    Weeks 1-8: Arimidex (EOD) - 20mgs
    Weeks 1-10: H.C.G (x2/week) - 250IU
    Weeks 11-12: Novladex (ED) 20mg & Clomid (ED) - 100mg
    Weeks 13-14: Novladex (ED) 20mg & Clomid (ED) - 50mg

    OR

    Weeks 1-12: Test E - 300mg OR 500mg
    Weeks 1-12: Arimidex (EOD) - 20mgs
    Weeks 1-14: H.C.G (x2/week) - 250IU
    Weeks 15-16: Novladex (ED) 20mg & Clomid (ED) - 100m
    Weeks 17-18: Novladex (ED) 20mg & Clomid (ED) - 50mgs


    Are the scheduling of the weeks correct or are they amiss?

    SUPPORT SUPPLEMENTS:

    Blood Pressure: Hawthorn Berry: 1g (E.D) w/ a 2 week pre-loading.

    Liver:
    NAC - N Acetyl L Cysteine: 2-3g (E.D)
    Milk Thistle: 1-2g (E.D)

    Prolactin Inhibition:
    Vitex/Angus Castus: 800mg - minimum?

    Please let me know what you think.
    Last edited by Koios; 07-15-2013 at 02:15 PM.

  2. #2
    austinite's Avatar
    austinite is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
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    Hey Koios, Outstanding stats man...

    1. A single injection per week will not suffice. Twice a week for stability and better results.
    2. 300 mg is too low. Minimum 400 mg would bring worthwhile results assuming diet is on point.
    3. Go with Test E 400 or 500mg for 12 weeks total.
    4. Run your Arimidex and don't stop until you start PCT.
    5. 25mg of Arimidex must be a typo, the dose is 0.25mg. (A quarter of a milligram)
    6. Frontload your first weeks PCT like so: Nolva @40/20/20/20 & Clomid @75/50/50/50.
    7. Milk thistle won't hurt, but NAC is superior and will suffice alone if you want to save money.
    8. Do not use Agnus Castus, (Agnus, not angus ) it is counter productive to hCG . No need for prolactin control.

    Best of luck to you.
    Java Man, BBJT200 and Koios like this.
    ~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~

    "It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel

  3. #3
    clarky.'s Avatar
    clarky. is offline MONITOR
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Hey Koios, Outstanding stats man...

    1. A single injection per week will not suffice. Twice a week for stability and better results.
    2. 300 mg is too low. Minimum 400 mg would bring worthwhile results assuming diet is on point.
    3. Go with Test E 400 or 500mg for 12 weeks total.
    4. Run your Arimidex and don't stop until you start PCT.
    5. 25mg of Arimidex must be a typo, the dose is 0.25mg. (A quarter of a milligram)
    6. Frontload your first weeks PCT like so: Nolva @40/20/20/20 & Clomid @75/50/50/50.
    7. Milk thistle won't hurt, but NAC is superior and will suffice alone if you want to save money.
    8. Do not use Agnus Castus, (Agnus, not angus ) it is counter productive to hCG . No need for prolactin control.

    Best of luck to you.
    Bang on aust as usual if you take this advice and you nutrition is good and you put 100% in to your work out you will have one great first cycle good luck
    Last edited by clarky.; 07-15-2013 at 02:40 PM.
    Koios and BBJT200 like this.

  4. #4
    Koios is offline New Member
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    Austinite - thak you so much. I have a few more questions that need clarifying but I'll wait till I'm on a pc. Typing this on the phone is a nightmare.

  5. #5
    Quester's Avatar
    Quester is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Lol, typing on your phone. That takes a lot of dedication, and that will take you far.

  6. #6
    Chx beach 79's Avatar
    Chx beach 79 is offline Senior Member
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    Congrats on those stats!!! I cannot walk around at that Bodyfat, I feel like I have the flu whenever I get below 9%... You must have some great genetics! Best of luck

    You definitely want to run that test at 500 Mgs a week!

  7. #7
    Koios is offline New Member
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    Thanks guys. Been hurdlin' n bustin my ballz in all directions (research, training (hate the word 'workout') nutrition, etc) for the past three years now looking to turn it up a notch

    OK. Please bare with me on the following questions:

    I stumbled upon the thread Ronnie Rowland's made- it's a sticky called "you'll want to read this..." where he outlines keeping cycles at 8 weeks. Not doubting what Austi said- is this info any differ? or has it changed since he wrote this back in 09? There's over like 100 pages to skim through.....lol



    1) I running 500mng of test e for 12 weeks as Austi and others said do I then run Arimidex through weeks 13 & 14- along with HCG ? What worries me a little is the time frame on these first cycle- making sure I got them right.

    2)Austi- said: 6 .Frontload your first weeks PCT like so: Nolva - 40/20/20/20 & Clomid -75/50/50/50. If it's not to much hurdle to explain can you elaborate front loading pct/why? Now don't kill me here but how do you understand the 40/20/20/20- I came across this in research but can't remember and can't find it at the moment. If it's too much to explain can someone link me to a sticky and I'll do the reading otherwise I'll look for it tomorrow.

    I got a few more questions that the search function didn't show up anything but I'll ask them later.

  8. #8
    Koios is offline New Member
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    Also wanted to add the reason I ask all these questions, the more in-depth, is because during all this research I see what are reputable gentlemen tell conflicting cycles- on other boards as well. Some say run this for this long where as others say run it this long- but both are knowledgeable and experience- so for a newbie like me- it sounds very conflicting.

  9. #9
    Java Man's Avatar
    Java Man is offline Known Troll
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    It is conflicting. These guys are giving you what has worked for them. everybody is different and reacts differently. The best anyone can really do for a new person coming into it is generalizations as to what is the best / safest way to start your personal research on what works for you.You are forever a self researcher doing what we do and you should be in a constant state of evolution with all aspects of your training, diet, supplements, and rest. What works great.for me might not do squat for another.

  10. #10
    thehor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koios View Post
    Hello all. After thoroughly researching gear/pct on this forum and others I've put together my 1st cycle based on the researched compiled by respected forum members and logic regarding safest noobie cycles. My priority here is safety. However, I'm looking for validation before proceeding further.

    PLEASE READ:

    When I did this research the dosages were based of off 500mg of Test E for 12 weeks. I cannot no longer find who said/wrote this but (I remember these guy's were also experienced and rich with knowledge and said that that 'Test E peaks (or matures) if that's the correct terminology around weeks 5-8...but that around the 10th week it's bio-availability starts to diminish and makes no sense to run it for 12 weeks.... even though it's a longer ester. ??

    From the reading I've done the only argument made not running a minimum of 500mg of test e for 12 weeks is limited gains/waste? Is that really the case? Wouldn't 300mg (1 pin per week) be enough for a first timer? It seems some just clearly think the more the better - which isn't the case. I would like for those who are knowledgeable to chime in. Is there anything under/over dosed. Does the time frame look legit? Same goes for the anti-astrogens- are the dosages too high for just 300mg of test e/week?

    My stats:

    Age: 27
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 198
    BF: ~8% Lifting/BB Experience: 3 years

    I've competed and won in natty comps. I've have thorough knowledge on dieting, contest prep, training, etc..... no meathead issues here but that's besides the point. Looking to branch out and take the physique to another level.

    CYCLES

    Weeks 1-8: Test E - 300mg
    Weeks 1-8: Arimidex (EOD) - 20mgs
    Weeks 1-10: H.C.G (x2/week) - 250IU
    Weeks 11-12: Novladex (ED) 20mg & Clomid (ED) - 100mg
    Weeks 13-14: Novladex (ED) 20mg & Clomid (ED) - 50mg

    OR

    Weeks 1-12: Test E - 300mg OR 500mg
    Weeks 1-12: Arimidex (EOD) - 20mgs
    Weeks 1-14: H.C.G (x2/week) - 250IU
    Weeks 15-16: Novladex (ED) 20mg & Clomid (ED) - 100m
    Weeks 17-18: Novladex (ED) 20mg & Clomid (ED) - 50mgs


    Are the scheduling of the weeks correct or are they amiss?

    SUPPORT SUPPLEMENTS:

    Blood Pressure: Hawthorn Berry: 1g (E.D) w/ a 2 week pre-loading.

    Liver:
    NAC - N Acetyl L Cysteine: 2-3g (E.D)
    Milk Thistle: 1-2g (E.D)

    Prolactin Inhibition:
    Vitex/Angus Castus: 800mg - minimum?

    Please let me know what you think.
    At 5'7 198 pounds?? I wouldnt even do a cycle you have a awesome body man at 8% bf dayum I wish I was in your shoes.

  11. #11
    G0D
    G0D is offline Junior Member
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    hes talking about aromasin !! aromasin has to be taken ED coz its half life is 27 hours.. but dont they come in 25 mg tabs ? so 12.5 mg ED

  12. #12
    Koios is offline New Member
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    20mg EOD was a typo- meant to write .20mg. My question with this know how expansive this AI how are you supposed to break up the tablets when they are 1mg tablets? I don't think there are any markings on these, so what, do you just eye it? or am I missing something here?

  13. #13
    Chx beach 79's Avatar
    Chx beach 79 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koios
    20mg EOD was a typo- meant to write .20mg. My question with this know how expansive this AI how are you supposed to break up the tablets when they are 1mg tablets? I don't think there are any markings on these, so what, do you just eye it? or am I missing something here?
    No you aren't missing anything, it is kind of a pain... Just get a pill cutter from the drugstore and eyeball it.
    Koios likes this.

  14. #14
    G0D
    G0D is offline Junior Member
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    im no expert at HGH, but from what i have read, at your present stats maybe you should strt looking at HGH ? steroid only gains can be hard to maintain cause you seem to be really close or achieved your crazy genetic limit.

  15. #15
    G0D
    G0D is offline Junior Member
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    save the liver supps for orals.. there are studies that show hepatic strain on really high IM test cycles are minimal..

    and hcg is meant to be 250iu x 2 a week.. i guess that's what u meant..

    and arimidex comes in 1g so 1mg/4 =0.25mg !

  16. #16
    Koios is offline New Member
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    I was always fascinated with HGH but that will come in time. it's expensive as well. I see the gains that are possible if I keep going natty for another few years but by then test levels will be on the decline and my dream is.competitive BB.

    My MD also oversees my progress. Get my blood work done along with other test like AKG, etc and recently got ultra sound.done for the liver, kidneys and testicals. All came back with great result.

    I want to see how much I.could do.witb just the addition of test.

  17. #17
    G0D
    G0D is offline Junior Member
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    i would like to know how much u gain and keep after this cycle..

  18. #18
    Koios is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0D View Post
    i would like to know how much u gain and keep after this cycle..
    Definitely. Will keep this thread going through the cycle. I'm looking to start sometime in August.
    G0D likes this.

  19. #19
    Koios is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Hey Koios, Outstanding stats man...

    1. A single injection per week will not suffice. Twice a week for stability and better results.
    2. 300 mg is too low. Minimum 400 mg would bring worthwhile results assuming diet is on point.
    3. Go with Test E 400 or 500mg for 12 weeks total.
    4. Run your Arimidex and don't stop until you start PCT.
    5. 25mg of Arimidex must be a typo, the dose is 0.25mg. (A quarter of a milligram)
    6. Frontload your first weeks PCT like so: Nolva -40/20/20/20 & Clomid -75/50/50/50.
    7. Milk thistle won't hurt, but NAC is superior and will suffice alone if you want to save money.
    8. Do not use Agnus Castus, (Agnus, not angus ) it is counter productive to hCG . No need for prolactin control.

    Best of luck to you.
    Thanks again. I was wondering if you can recommend me what I after finishing my PCT. I have read many mixing things. Do I do time on-time off, 2 - 4 weeks off and then go into another cycle, etc?

    Let's say I respond very well in this cycle and PCT is a success- what do you recommend I do after?

    Also, I also got my bloodwork done so I got my baseline. I was also going to get my bloodwork done at 8 weeks into the cyle and another after finishing PCT.

  20. #20
    austinite's Avatar
    austinite is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
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    I don't understand your first question. Looks like it's missing a couple words by accident. If you are asking how long to wait before another cycle, it's TIME ON + TIME LEADING TO PCT + PCT TIME = TIME OFF. So in your case that would be 12+2+4= 18 weeks.

    If you respond very well, you simply do it again. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Blood work tells all, wise choice.
    ~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~

    "It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel

  21. #21
    Koios is offline New Member
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    My fault. The first question was in regards to what do you recommended I do after my PCT? So, if I respond well run another cycle (same one as first? ) immediately after PCT?

    When is it wise to follow time on- time off protocol? I've read that you don't want to do too many cycles without taking some off but as you say if it ain't broke.....so would this protocol apply to more advance cycles later down the line?

  22. #22
    austinite's Avatar
    austinite is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koios View Post
    My fault. The first question was in regards to what do you recommended I do after my PCT? So, if I respond well run another cycle (same one as first? ) immediately after PCT?

    When is it wise to follow time on- time off protocol? I've read that you don't want to do too many cycles without taking some off but as you say if it ain't broke.....so would this protocol apply to more advance cycles later down the line?
    I answered those questions already in the post above. Please read it again. the time off rule applies to all cycles. There are no exceptions. Did I miss something? What do you mean after PCT? Just train, eat, sleep and check your blood levels.

    I wouldn't worry about advanced cycled down the line, get a few test cycles under your belt and then explore other options. This will give you more time to research other compounds.
    ~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~

    "It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel

  23. #23
    Koios is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    I answered those questions already in the post above. Please read it again. the time off rule applies to all cycles. There are no exceptions. Did I miss something? What do you mean after PCT? Just train, eat, sleep and check your blood levels.

    I wouldn't worry about advanced cycled down the line, get a few test cycles under your belt and then explore other options. This will give you more time to research other compounds.
    I perhaps didn't word myself clearly. I understood your previous post- what I didn't know was whether the time on/time off rule applied to every cycle. I read others saying that if all goes well you can wait 2-4 weeks after you finish your PCT and start another cycle. That's all. It seems the more reading I do the more I confuse myself with some of the info as you're hearing contradicting info from realiable/knowledgeable peeps.

  24. #24
    austinite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koios View Post
    I perhaps didn't word myself clearly. I understood your previous post- what I didn't know was whether the time on/time off rule applied to every cycle. I read others saying that if all goes well you can wait 2-4 weeks after you finish your PCT and start another cycle. That's all. It seems the more reading I do the more I confuse myself with some of the info as you're hearing contradicting info from realiable/knowledgeable peeps.
    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    I answered those questions already in the post above. Please read it again. the time off rule applies to all cycles. There are no exceptions. Did I miss something? What do you mean after PCT? Just train, eat, sleep and check your blood levels.


    I wouldn't worry about advanced cycled down the line, get a few test cycles under your belt and then explore other options. This will give you more time to research other compounds.
    Hope that clear it up.
    ~ PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR SOURCE CHECKS ~

    "It's human nature in a 'more is better' society full of a younger generation that expects instant gratification, then complain when they don't get it. The problem will get far worse before it gets better". ~ kelkel

  25. #25
    crazy mike is offline Banned for repping Dangerous Substances
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Hope that clear it up.
    Good job all the way through Austin~. They continue to overthink all the time. Hello ??? ...crazy mike

  26. #26
    Koios is offline New Member
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    ]LOL I got you the first time hence why there was no question mark after the sentence you highlighted in red. My last post was meant to explain myself- nothing.else.

    Thanks for all the help. Looking forward to this

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