first cycle ever. advices for cycle(s) + PCT and OCT

[rasmioche]

Hello guys

looking to buy gear for my first cycle (i will run it in a while, and since i'm currently in egypt i can get some gear at a fair price and without prescription )

don't stop reading at the actual stats please, i know the post is long but i added the max details i could so helping me out should be easier and will also prevent you from thinking that i want to take aas with the actual weight.

age 23
170cm - 5 foot 7
56kg - 124 pound
bf 13-14%

i start by saying that i will take gear only when i'll be back in italy and will be back on my proper diet and training, and after reaching at least 60-65kg - 140-145pounds at same bf or little less

i have been training for 4 years, the last two of them seriously, 3-4 times a week (one week 3 times, one week 4 times)

---

DIET

btw this is my diet (the one i rely on in italy)

breakfast

4-5 eggs + 3-400ml full fat milk + 100g bread + 150-200g fava beans (arabic foul medammas)
or sometimes 50g oats cooked with 200ml milk + 2 spoons of honey + 100g bread + fruit jam and butter


multivit + omega 3 + creatine

snack before lunch

150g bread + 100g salami/turkey/tuna
or sometimes 150g gainer + 200ml milk
30-40g dried fruit (pistachios-nuts)

lunch

150g (dry) pasta + 30g parmigiano cheese or 120g (dry) rice
250g meat (beef, chicken, turkey... depends on the day)
lots of veggies, salad etc
sometimes i add 100g potatoes with chicken
10g evo oil
pinch of seasonning for salad, evo+vinegar+salt
fruit

snack pre wo (2 hours before wo)

mostly gainer 100g + milk 150ml + 30-40 dried fruit (pistachios-nuts)

post wo

40g maltodextrin + 40g dextrose + 30g isolates
banana

dinner

like lunch

pre bed

200g cottage cheese or 30g parmigiano cheese

I gained 7kg in 10 weeks maintaining almost the same bf with this diet.

Training is ok

I just want to buy now the gear i'll use in 6-8-12 (or whenever i'll be ready) months.

as i said earlier i will take aas only when i'll reach 60-65kg (when i'll reach 60-65 kg i'll add more carbs and proteins to the actual diet plan)
This means when i get back to italy i'll start again my normal diet and exercice for a few months, then when time comes i'll use aas.

---

CYCLES

i thought of this cycles

1 : test prop + vit E 525mg ew (3x25mg ED) 1-12 + dbol kickstart 30/40mg ED 1-4 (or 1-6)

2 : test prop + vit E 525mg ew (3x25mg ED) 1-12 + winny kickstart 75mg ED 1-4 (or 1-6)

I also thought of getting some oral tbol that i could add to one of the above cycles as and end, opposed to the kickstart, or even to substitute the kickstarter. will it be a good idea ?

3 : test prop + vit E 525mg ew (3x25mg ED) 1-12 + dbol or winny kickstart ED 1-4 (or 1-6)

4 : test prop + vit E 525mg ew (3x25mg ED) 1-12 + tbol kickstart ED 1-4 (or 1-6)

i know that best thing would be to run test only as a first cycle but i'm thinking of getting oral aas to have some for a second cycle too. things here are really cheap so if i can afford to buy aas for two complete cycles it would not bother me at all.

---

PCT-OCT

as for oct-PCT i'm still working on it...

i read that i can take winny as prolactin antagonizer 10mg x 2 ED 1-6 (but how would that work if i run test + winny cycle ? )

i thought of doing

winny 1-6 2x10mg ED (if i tun test + dbol)
hcg 500iu x 2 ew 8-12
nolva 40mg ED 10-12 + 40mg ED 12-15 if there are signs of gyno, or take it down to 20mg ED 12-15 if there are no visible signs of gyno
clomid 50mg ED 12-15

is it good or i should add other things to keep my tests functionning ?

---

QUESTIONS

Now i have a few questions...

1- test prop is it good for first cycle ? i read that it will hurt on virgin muscles... but right now it's the only test i can get.

2- as test prop doesen't need 3-4 weeks like test e to kick in, is a 12 week too long, or still good to go ?

3- i though i could start test prop with 250mg ew instead of a massive 500mg ew to see how my body reacts to that and to try to get out the maximum benefit with the minimum dose possible. is 250mg ew ok or i will need a bit more ?

4- can i take test prop every day or it has to be taken eod ? i thought that if i take it every day doses will be smaller, so pain should be less in the injection site and that would also help maintaining the test level constant.

5- is it good to run test + dbol kick start + win as end of cycle ? or perhaps test + dbol or win kick start + tbol end of cycle ?

i added win-tbol at the end of the cycle because i am more in getting strength and quality muscle than getting water retention...

i still am confused on which is the best of the 3... test + dbol will give me good results but i don't want the water retention issue... if i gain 20 pounds and loose 10 it doesent really make sense to me... so if adding winny will help i gladly will take it.

on the other hand if test + winny kick start will give the exact same results of test + dbol kick start +win then i'll avoid dbol...

cheers


ps : i never did injections but i don't really like the idea. it doesen't scare me... it's just that i "hate" needles, that's why i'd rather go with orals and take less injec aas possible

[DexterMorgan]

Stopped reading at the actual stats. Sorry buddy, but you need a foundation 1st.

[austinite]

---

QUESTIONS

Now i have a few questions...

1- test prop is it good for first cycle ? i read that it will hurt on virgin muscles... but right now it's the only test i can get. NO, NOT AT YOUR BODY WEIGHT.

2- as test prop doesen't need 3-4 weeks like test e to kick in, is a 12 week too long, or still good to go ? NO, NOT AT YOUR BODY WEIGHT.

3- i though i could start test prop with 250mg ew instead of a massive 500mg ew to see how my body reacts to that and to try to get out the maximum benefit with the minimum dose possible. is 250mg ew ok or i will need a bit more ? NO, NOT AT YOUR BODY WEIGHT.

4- can i take test prop every day or it has to be taken eod ? i thought that if i take it every day doses will be smaller, so pain should be less in the injection site and that would also help maintaining the test level constant. NO, NOT AT YOUR BODY WEIGHT.

5- is it good to run test + dbol kick start + win as end of cycle ? or perhaps test + dbol or win kick start + tbol end of cycle ? NO, NOT AT YOUR BODY WEIGHT.

i added win-tbol at the end of the cycle because i am more in getting strength and quality muscle than getting water retention...

i still am confused on which is the best of the 3... test + dbol will give me good results but i don't want the water retention issue... if i gain 20 pounds and loose 10 it doesent really make sense to me... so if adding winny will help i gladly will take it.

on the other hand if test + winny kick start will give the exact same results of test + dbol kick start +win then i'll avoid dbol...

cheers


ps : i never did injections but i don't really like the idea. it doesen't scare me... it's just that i "hate" needles, that's why i'd rather go with orals and take less injec aas possible

Sorry OP, I know it looks silly with the same answer to all your questions, but the answers really do apply to all your questions. You need the diet section, not the steroid section.

[drake4243]

124lbs my friend steroids will only hurt i am about the same height as you with a lower bf% and i out weight you by well over 100lbs. You really need to work on your diet first. this will really give you nothing if your diet is not right. good luck.

[rasmioche]

thanks all for replies.

i know that actual stats are not even close to good to take aas, that's why i said i will take them later.

the diet posted earlier is a good one, as i said i gained 7kg in 10 weeks with that. but i lost almost eveything when i came to egypt for work... it's been 3 months now, and with crappy diet and almost no exercise i came down to the actual stats.

i don't want to take aas now guys, i'm not mad. i know there are side effects already when someone has foundation and does everything right, i don't want to waste both money and healt without getting any result.

it's just that here gear is very cheap and i am sure the things i'll get is legit 100%. so i'd rather spend now 100-150 euro to buy gear for a complete cycle without any penal charges, than paying the triple for the same cycle on the net and risking penal charges for buying aas on the net (italian customs control every single pack that comes from outside the country with postal service, and aas can't be purchased...). so it's really a matter of less risk and more profit.

i have to deal with oxycodone everyday for chronic pain since i was 16 guys, i know what side effect and withdrawal mean. i will never take aas without reaching a solid 60-65kg (my ideal goal for now being aesthetic so 70kg or around that HP0... but maybe when i'll reach 70gk i'll probably will want to hit 80kg or more, who knows?)

i'll buy the gear and put it away, rest assured of that. expiry dates are for nearly two years, i'll have plenty of time tu use them

[austinite]

Why bother buying gear and storing it? Just be careful. You might hit bone with a slin.

[rasmioche]

mainly for risk of penal charges if i get caught buying stuff on the net, but also price that is really cheap (half but sometimes even 1/4 of the prices i can find on us sites) being sure the stuff is legit.

i will not be storing it for long, at least i hope that. if everything goes well in 5-6 months i'll be back to a solid 65kg so it would not be that long. but as i said i will take all the time i need to get a solid base again, then when time is right i'll use aas.


also i don't really mind spending 100-150 euro and risking to throw them down the toilet if something goes wrong, i mean if my body doesen't react nicely to high doses of test, or to an oral that i might buy... it would bother me more if i spended the double or more and had to leave the gear unused or throw it (i will not risk to sell it to anybody)

edit : sorry did not understand what you mean by hitting a bone with a slin. is slin a slang for needle ?

[rasmioche]

up, i'm leaving very soon. need some advice

i decided to run test prop 300-350 ew for 12 weeks with ed injections

now i only need to know waht is best between dbol tbol and win (all orals)

i'd rather go with win than dbol for gyno and water retention.
for tbol i have to idea if it's good for me.

as said before i don't want to gain 10kg and loose 7 after cycle (like it would be for dbol for example, it's useless for me)

goal is to gain clean mass, hp0 or around that. no need to look like cuttler or coleman... hp0 or hp+10 will be the maximum.

i will get gear for 2 cycles so even if my first cycle will be test only, i want to buy the oral aas for my second cycle now (i wil run second cycle only 6-8 months after the first one)

[qscgugcsq]

up, i'm leaving very soon. need some advice

i decided to run test prop 300-350 ew for 12 weeks with ed injections

now i only need to know waht is best between dbol tbol and win (all orals)

i'd rather go with win than dbol for gyno and water retention.
for tbol i have to idea if it's good for me.

as said before i don't want to gain 10kg and loose 7 after cycle (like it would be for dbol for example, it's useless for me)

goal is to gain clean mass, hp0 or around that. no need to look like cuttler or coleman... hp0 or hp+10 will be the maximum.

i will get gear for 2 cycles so even if my first cycle will be test only, i want to buy the oral aas for my second cycle now (i wil run second cycle only 6-8 months after the first one)

Cmon! you are 124 pounds!!!! You will lose everything you gain(if you gain any) on ANY CYCLE YOU DO.

You don'T know how to eat, and probably don't know how to train... 124pounds is the weight of a girls!!! not a guy.

You want to gain muscle permanently, then learn to eat!!!!

at 124 pounds their is no way you know how to eat!

If you really want to use steroids to gain 5 pound(with you current diet you are lucky to gain 5 pounds) and lose it 1 month after...

If you think it worth it go ahead... But you are fooling yourself...
You risk to tear a muscle cause you have no idea of what you are doing and the strength gain will hurt you.
All your gain will be lost for sure.
and you are wasting money for no reason.
and risking you health for no reason.

If its not enough for you go ahead and keep a log of your cycle. You will do a great example of how we can fail without proper knowledge.

sry if it felt rude but nutrition section will help you way more than any steroid...

[rasmioche]

guys i know i'm skinny as hell, it's been 4 months in egypt for work, crappy diet and no exercise. i lost 7kg in this journey

i was a solid 64kg - 140 pounds (gained approx 1-1.5kg per month with that diet) training 4 times a week before comming here. if that's not enough too for aas, waht weight should i reach to start using aas ? just for info

[qscgugcsq]

guys i know i'm skinny as hell, it's been 4 months in egypt for work, crappy diet and no exercise. i lost 7kg in this journey

i was a solid 64kg - 140 pounds (gained approx 1-1.5kg per month with that diet) training 4 times a week before comming here. if that's not enough too for aas, waht weight should i reach to start using aas ? just for info

5 foot 7 I would say 160 would be a good start if you are made little... if you have a bigger frame 170-180.

[ksingh93]

guys i know i'm skinny as hell, it's been 4 months in egypt for work, crappy diet and no exercise. I lost 7kg in this journey

i was a solid 64kg - 140 pounds (gained approx 1-1.5kg per month with that diet) training 4 times a week before comming here. If that's not enough too for aas, waht weight should i reach to start using aas ? Just for info

140 is not even enough for starting a cycle get to 170 mark with same bf % then u can get help about using stuff and if you are skinny u should be eating everything in sight to gain weight weight

[rasmioche]

160-170 pounds ? so i should already be hp0

ok that can be done too, i'll have to wait for approx 8-9 months to reach that naturally

yes i have very "thin" bones and structure generally.

though i don't know if i'll reach hp0 easilly, i have a very very fast metabolism... i have to throw in gainer and malto-dextrose to keep the kcals high enough to get steady gains. never went past 67kg max weight

for genetics, i'm like my father, and all my family on my old man's side, very lean. my first cousin has been training for 8-9 years, he is in the military and he never went past hp0 (he is 174cm)
same for my father, 178cm, alwasy 75kg or around that, fencing champion

but as i said i am not fool to use aas with actual stats... if you say to hit at least 70kg to start ass i'll wait... i'm here asking advice because you know better than me, but still it would be great if i could get advice on what to take...

it's not a problem for me to buy and store the studd since expiry date is long, and also since i will not be risking penal charges. that's all the matter. i'm in no rush for actually using aas, just for getting them at a cheap price

[Sledgehammer1]

Compared to the other newbies that ask first time cycle advice, he at least has a brain in his head. Rasmioche, as stated, get your weight up, way up before considering doing your first AAS cycle. You said it yourself, with a clean diet you were able to gain 7lbs. If you can do that without AAS, then continue and take it as far as humanly possible. Wait at least 1-1.5 years while your natural test levels are at there highest during your lifetime. Also continue doing your research in the meantime, as I can tell u have begun to do, but could use more.

That said, forget about test prop for first cycle. It will be so uncomfortable/painful, not worth it. Find a test enanthate preparation. Should not have a problem finding one there. I would aim for 500mg first cycle for 10-12 weeks. So about 20-25 amps.

Q: What is it that causes you pain, if not to personal?

Recap: Wait.....work on your diet and putting on some size. Then let the new muscle mature for a while. You are WAY underweight. AAS will not do anything for a guy your size. Expect this to take some time. You seem to have a head on your shoulders and will hopefully do things the right way.

[rasmioche]

thanks again for replies

yes i read that test prop is going to be painful on virgin muscles, but i am pain tollerant (and oxycodone will surely help, as said i already take it for chronic pain)
with that diet i gained 7kg - 15 pound in 10 weeks (after adding in maltodex-dextrose post wo)

as said i already never meant to run them before reaching 65kg... i have to take oxy every day for chronic pain and i know very well what is the meaning of withdrawal and side effect... so i'm not looking to jeoparadize my health without getting a result.
so i'll wait to hit the 70kg, even if i think that will be my limit (unless i try to add more kcal diet but that will not be easy at all )

just for info... beside pain and ed or eod injection why is test prop not suitable for a first cycle ? i'm ok with both pain and ed injections

[rasmioche]

ah sorry i did not see your question...

my pain... well it's a sever spinal injury that i had when i was 16 at school.

i have 4 vertebraes out of place (2 in the dorsal and 2 inthe cervical ) after falling and getting my back bent instead of my knees.

it was and is still painfull... i wanted to get surgery but the neurosugeons told me that it was too risky and it was way better to stay on painkillers...

[Sledgehammer1]

I had a spinal fusion of my L4L5- S1 and I as well take oxycodone. Trust me it doesn't do anything for post injection pain bro. Ive had HG prop and it made my glutes swell up like a baseball everytime. Hard to sleep and sit down. Some say it will subside after multiple injections. I did a 22 week cycle, and it was the same throughout.

[Ares18F]

You're 23 years old AND weigh half as much as most of our warm up sets on bench. Not trying to insult you but you're going to do far more harm than good if you start using at this point in your life, especially with your stats. Spend the money you'd be spending on gear on more calories and weight training equipment. Just my 2 cents.

[qscgugcsq]

thanks again for replies

yes i read that test prop is going to be painful on virgin muscles, but i am pain tollerant (and oxycodone will surely help, as said i already take it for chronic pain)
with that diet i gained 7kg - 15 pound in 10 weeks (after adding in maltodex-dextrose post wo)

as said i already never meant to run them before reaching 65kg... i have to take oxy every day for chronic pain and i know very well what is the meaning of withdrawal and side effect... so i'm not looking to jeoparadize my health without getting a result.
so i'll wait to hit the 70kg, even if i think that will be my limit (unless i try to add more kcal diet but that will not be easy at all )

just for info... beside pain and ed or eod injection why is test prop not suitable for a first cycle ? i'm ok with both pain and ed injections

Their is absolutely nothing wrong with using prop as first cycle.

Normally virgin muscle will hurt more in presence of solvent.
Testosterone propionate have more solvent than enanthate(who have almost none...)

plus, a newbies will be less attrated to EOD injection.

If you are fine with EOD/ED injection it's fine.
However the pip may become an issue if the content of solvent is too high(normally associated with high concentration), or poor quality product.

Their is good lab with "painless" prop.

It will probably still hurt a bit, if it's unbearable you can still heat the oil(I won't say anything on the method because I'm not sure how to do it myself.) and inject slowly.

I personally think that prop is as good if not better than test-e for a first cycle.

[rasmioche]

I had a spinal fusion of my L4L5- S1 and I as well take oxycodone. Trust me it doesn't do anything for post injection pain bro. Ive had HG prop and it made my glutes swell up like a baseball everytime. Hard to sleep and sit down. Some say it will subside after multiple injections. I did a 22 week cycle, and it was the same throughout.

i'm sorry for your injury man. i see for oxy... well too bad if it doesen't help

You're 23 years old AND weigh half as much as most of our warm up sets on bench. Not trying to insult you but you're going to do far more harm than good if you start using at this point in your life, especially with your stats. Spend the money you'd be spending on gear on more calories and weight training equipment. Just my 2 cents.

yes my stats now are absolutely not good. as i was told earlier i will have to reach at least 70kg, this means that i will only have to be 5kgs more than what i was 4-5 months ago... nothing impossible. i know my actual stats are very bad guys, but situation here in egypt is really crappy, getting food isn't as simple as it can sound, food quality... well let's just skip that, and absolutely no training resulted in a 7kg loss.

Their is absolutely nothing wrong with using prop as first cycle.

Normally virgin muscle will hurt more in presence of solvent.
Testosterone propionate have more solvent than enanthate(who have almost none...)

plus, a newbies will be less attrated to EOD injection.

If you are fine with EOD/ED injection it's fine.
However the pip may become an issue if the content of solvent is too high(normally associated with high concentration), or poor quality product.

Their is good lab with "painless" prop.

It will probably still hurt a bit, if it's unbearable you can still heat the oil(I won't say anything on the method because I'm not sure how to do it myself.) and inject slowly.

I personally think that prop is as good if not better than test-e for a first cycle.

i see thanks

the test i was going to get is a solution of testosterone propinate 25mg/ml + vit E 50mg/ml comming in 1ml amps

so it's a very low concentration... if i ever planned on injecting 300-350mg ew splitted in ed injections that would be
4 amps a day, so 4ml. would that still hurt like more high concentrated solutions ? still just for information, as this is the only test i can get here

[qscgugcsq]

i see thanks

the test i was going to get is a solution of testosterone propinate 25mg/ml + vit E 50mg/ml comming in 1ml amps

so it's a very low concentration... if i ever planned on injecting 300-350mg ew splitted in ed injections that would be
4 amps a day, so 4ml. would that still hurt like more high concentrated solutions ? still just for information, as this is the only test i can get here

... well, I don't think at that concentration it will hurt however that much ampule if you are not used to it may increase the risk of an infection.(I hate amps.)
You can get anything no matter where you are... (except Australia, Australia is a pain in the ass...)
their is plenty of great lab online who ship internationally.

IDK how much you pay your vial(I don't wanna know) but I'm 99% sure you can get vial way cheaper.

normally prop is 100mg/ml (who makes far less volume to inject), if too painful you can cut it with sterile oil or B12.

the recommended dose for first cycle is 400-600mg/week.

[rasmioche]

i get it very cheap trust me
i do every two days injections of voltaren and b12 to my mother, used to inject with amps. but why would it be a higher risk of infection ?? i never had a problem with amps

the problem is this : i live in italy, and it is forbidden to buy aas. buying from the net is a pain in the ass for a simple reason, every package that comes from outside the country is checked by the customs, and when they will see ass and my name i will get penal charges (yes penal, not civil) for buying aas and god know what else... without forgetting the 3-4000 euro fine for buying illegal stuff.

yes i read that most first cycles are 500mg ew, but i'd rather start low first time and see how it goes with 300-350 so i can maximize gains reducing to the minimum the use of aas, and if after 5-6 weeks i don't see any gain i can still increase from 350 to 500. at least that was the plan

[qscgugcsq]

Must be damn cheap... Anyway you can find domestic source. HOWEVER, I say that about the ampule because you have to broke them and they are in contact with the exterior air, not for a long time so it's ok but still...

[rasmioche]

yes, especially now that euro-egyptian pound ratio is very high, gear is very cheap

ah ok for amps. i always clean them with alcohol before breaking them but you're righ for air contact.

i'll see if there are vials but i doubt that.
i also asked for aas a while back in italy. i can find the gear that i need without much difficulties but it's 3-4 times the price i can find here and there is still risk to be caught buying the stuff.

italy is a pain in the ass too... a while back my uncle sent my mother a cream for joint pain from canada... customs asked a written prescription from the doctor for that cream (exact brand etc...) otherwise they could not give me the clearance to receive the package, and in fact i did not receive it. they asked a prescription for a cream like voltaren cream... something that is selled without prescription. this can give you an idea of why i'm looking to buy now the stuff and store it until i'm ready

[dogtags]

Dont cycle you're way too damn skinny

get rid of all the damn bread and pasta and replace it with good stuff like: Brown Rice, Sweet Potatoes

Get rid o the milk, add more naturally occuring fats like almonds and avocados, and add more carbs/protein.

Get rid of evo oil, use coconut oil

Get rid of Jam and butter

If you don't have the guts to cram a shitload of food down your throat and it all be clean food, you don't have the discpline to stick through a good, full cycle.

[rasmioche]

(again) not looking to cycle now, originally i planned to cycle when 60-65kg, now i plan to cycle when at least 70kg -> hp0

difficult to get totally rid of pasta and bread as one meal is alway not at home and i have to pick what i can get... mostly it will be pasta at lunch
dinner mostly it's brown rice
i'll def add more potatoes and coconut oil
bread is used for snack, i only get 5 min to eat so it's easier to eat a sandwich than rice-potatoes etc
ok for adding more protein
instead of almond i eat pistachios and nuts. already include avocados in veggies + salads etc. i eat every king of vegetable and legumes, but don't specify it every time

as said before i already had good gains on my diet but will definetly add some of the things listed here

[qscgugcsq]

Good luck, keep gaining