Is there any acceptable oral only cycle?

[BostonT]

I have asked here about winny only cycles and done some reading, it did not take long to find out most people say it's no good.

So my question... Is there any acceptable oral only cycle?

What if a person wants moderate gains and athletic look opposed to a full body builders physique? Would a moderate does of say anavar 60mg/day? for 8 weeks followed by the correct PTC render any sustainable gains?

I ask because I do not have readily available access to AAS. To get my hands on anything is pretty tough, and I am also not looking to be "huge."

I have been in the research phase of this for over a year now, still trying to get as much information as possible, and find out what would be right for me.

Thanks

[Java Man]

No. Orals should be used as boosters to increase the effect of your base injectable. Oops. I usually run several different ones so forgot to say that you should make sure your base always includes test.

[BostonT]

No. Orals should be used as boosters to increase the effect of your base injectable. Oops. I usually run several different ones so forgot to say that you should make sure your base always includes test.

I have read that test should always be your base. For me personally three things come to mind.
-availability
-needles (is there an alternate way to get test into your body?)
-estrogen

[austinite]

^

Availability - abundant.
Needles - locate your gonads - no sufficient alternate.
Estrogen - Use a blocker

[spywizard]

all depends on what you are hoping to accomplish.... ever run var alone?? dbol?? winny?? all will suppress your natural test levels, and most of the gains will be lost (typically).. thus the diet is more important than the substances we use..

[ChiveOn]

Nope! Simply put you need test as a base.
Lol @Austinite you're a penis.
But in all seriousness if you can't stick it don't consider steroids.

You won't get "huge" off of one or three or ten cycles. It takes time, hard training, harder diet, and then 10x more hard work. Steroids aren't magic muscle juice

[Metalject]

You can run an oral only cycle and maintain decent testosterone levels. Will it be the best cycle in the world? No, but it is very possible contrary to popular opinion.

What you'd want first is a good supply of Andriol Testocaps. These are gel caps and they are not hepatotoxic at all and will cause no stress to the liver. The compound has been tested and tested to death proving this fact. You would more than likely need 100-120mg per day to maintain optimal testosterone levels, maybe a little more. If you want more than just avoiding low testosterone, you'll need an enormous amount and it's nor really suited for direct performance purposes but rather in your case avoiding low testosterone while on cycle.

From there, with your Andriol, you'd add something like Anavar or Winstrol and run your stack for about 8wks. You may or may not need a low dose of an AI.

That's pretty well it. It won't be a tremendous cycle by any means, but it would be the safest and most effective oral only cycle. And no, it will not be cheap. Andriol is pretty expensive.

[austinite]

Anything is possible. You can eat rocks for 6 weeks, too. I don't think anyone is arguing the actual possibility. Regardless of suppression, oral only cycles are a terrible idea because you'll have issues such as lethargy. Performance would suffer and most likely render the cycle a failure.

[Java Man]

Anything is possible. You can eat rocks for 6 weeks, too. I don't think anyone is arguing the actual possibility. Regardless of suppression, oral only cycles are a terrible idea because you'll have issues such as lethargy. Performance would suffer and most likely render the cycle a failure.

Not to mention the unnecessary and often pointless liver and kidney stress.

[Metalject]

Anything is possible. You can eat rocks for 6 weeks, too. I don't think anyone is arguing the actual possibility. Regardless of suppression, oral only cycles are a terrible idea because you'll have issues such as lethargy. Performance would suffer and most likely render the cycle a failure.

Why would you have those issue if you ran an oral only cycle as I laid out above? Your testosterone levels wouldn't be low, your estradiol levels wouldn't be high and you'd have a little push from the second steroid you added. So again, why would you say that?

[Metalject]

Not to mention the unnecessary and often pointless liver and kidney stress.

Not with the cycle I posted. Not possible assuming the individual isn't being an idiot about it.

[Java Man]

Not with the cycle I posted. Not possible assuming the individual isn't being an idiot about it.

Ok. I'll run a gram of test c and 600mg deca weekly. You run your cycle of andriol and winstrol oral. We will both eat the exact same diet, get the same amount of sleep, and train exactly the same. I'll get my liver values tested at the end. You too. Your liver values will be far more elevated than mine and I will have made much more quality gains that I will keep. Are you seriously disputing this?

[austinite]

Why would you have those issue if you ran an oral only cycle as I laid out above? Your testosterone levels wouldn't be low, your estradiol levels wouldn't be high and you'd have a little push from the second steroid you added. So again, why would you say that?

Not sure why you quoted me. I was speaking of oral steroid only without testosterone administration. But to your point, they're not as readily available as you think. Testocaps are most certainly toxic. Low toxicity, but still toxic. I know you might have heard it's not of concern from Llewellyn, but it's not true. But I'm not concerned with toxicity, that can be managed.

[Metalject]

Not sure why you quoted me. I was speaking of oral steroid only without testosterone administration. But to your point, they're not as readily available as you think. Testocaps are most certainly toxic. Low toxicity, but still toxic. I know you might have heard it's not of concern from Llewellyn, but it's not true. But I'm not concerned with toxicity, that can be managed.

Sorry, I thought you were responding to my post above yours. Must have read it wrong.

As for the liver toxic issue, here's a good short read:
(I highlighted the part about toxicity just so it's easy to find)

J Androl. 1994 May-Jun;15(3):212-5.
A ten-year safety study of the oral androgen testosterone undecanoate.
Gooren LJ.

Source
Division of Andrology, Free University Hospital Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

Abstract
Testosterone undecanoate (Andriol) is an oral androgen that provides the hypogonadal patient with the unmodified testosterone molecule. It was introduced in the mid-1970s. This is a report on the safety of this oral androgen. Of 35 men originally included in the study, 33 could be followed up for a minimum of 10 years. In them no alteration in the biochemical parameters of liver function could be detected. Upon annual measurements (7-9 hours after ingestion of testosterone undecanoate), serum levels of testosterone ranged between 5.4 +/- 1.9 and 6.5 +/- 1.9 nmol/L (normal range 8-24) and of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone between 3.2 +/- 1.8 and 3.5 +/- 1.7 nmol/L (normal range 0.8-2.5). These levels remained constant during the study period, indicating that there is no increased hepatic enzymatic breakdown of the androgen over time. Eight men were older than 50 years at the start of the study. Over the 10-year period in two of them a mild reduction in urine flow was measured, whereas in the other six this could not be demonstrated. Digital examination of the prostate did not reveal signs of prostate tumors. Testosterone undecanoate appears to be a safe oral androgen. A yearly checkup of the patient on therapy with this androgen seems adequate.

A ten-year safety study of the oral androge... [J Androl. 1994 May-Jun] - PubMed - NCBI

As for availability, you're absolutely right, it's not abundantly available. But there are plenty of European sources that carry it...a ton of them? No, but enough to get it if you want it and if you're willing to pay for it.

[austinite]

Sorry, I thought you were responding to my post above yours. Must have read it wrong.

As for the liver toxic issue, here's a good short read:
(I highlighted the part about toxicity just so it's easy to find)

J Androl. 1994 May-Jun;15(3):212-5.
A ten-year safety study of the oral androgen testosterone undecanoate.
Gooren LJ.

Source
Division of Andrology, Free University Hospital Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

Abstract
Testosterone undecanoate (Andriol) is an oral androgen that provides the hypogonadal patient with the unmodified testosterone molecule. It was introduced in the mid-1970s. This is a report on the safety of this oral androgen. Of 35 men originally included in the study, 33 could be followed up for a minimum of 10 years. In them no alteration in the biochemical parameters of liver function could be detected. Upon annual measurements (7-9 hours after ingestion of testosterone undecanoate), serum levels of testosterone ranged between 5.4 +/- 1.9 and 6.5 +/- 1.9 nmol/L (normal range 8-24) and of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone between 3.2 +/- 1.8 and 3.5 +/- 1.7 nmol/L (normal range 0.8-2.5). These levels remained constant during the study period, indicating that there is no increased hepatic enzymatic breakdown of the androgen over time. Eight men were older than 50 years at the start of the study. Over the 10-year period in two of them a mild reduction in urine flow was measured, whereas in the other six this could not be demonstrated. Digital examination of the prostate did not reveal signs of prostate tumors. Testosterone undecanoate appears to be a safe oral androgen. A yearly checkup of the patient on therapy with this androgen seems adequate.

A ten-year safety study of the oral androge... [J Androl. 1994 May-Jun] - PubMed - NCBI

As for availability, you're absolutely right, it's not abundantly available. But there are plenty of European sources that carry it...a ton of them? No, but enough to get it if you want it and if you're willing to pay for it.

Ok. A bit more research on my end also shows that you are correct. Thanks for citing the study.

[Metalject]

Ok. A bit more research on my end also shows that you are correct. Thanks for citing the study.

I get one right every now and then....about every 14yrs. Thanks for noticing, lol!

[BostonT]

Thanks for the info guys, I have more to consider now.

[JSumma]

I have asked here about winny only cycles and done some reading, it did not take long to find out most people say it's no good.

So my question... Is there any acceptable oral only cycle?

What if a person wants moderate gains and athletic look opposed to a full body builders physique? Would a moderate does of say anavar 60mg/day? for 8 weeks followed by the correct PTC render any sustainable gains?

I ask because I do not have readily available access to AAS. To get my hands on anything is pretty tough, and I am also not looking to be "huge."

I have been in the research phase of this for over a year now, still trying to get as much information as possible, and find out what would be right for me.

Thanks

IMO what separates body-building goals and athletic goals is rate of muscle acquisition and duration. People who want mass don't care if their extra 20lbs in 5 weeks comes with bloat and decreas movement functionality. If your goals are athletic Testostetone can still meet them. I'd run Test between 200-300mg week and an AI along with it such as Aromasin at 25mg day. The longer the better (within reason) as this will build your muscles gradually albeit much faster than naturally. Another boon is you will increase recovery greatly. Adding Anavar at 60 and the benefits keep on coming. Keep the oral under 12 weeks. 8 weeks to be conservative and minimize risk. Again the goal for an athlete should be quality, long-term muscles acquisition which improves movement functionality, strength, and power.

[Times Roman]

all cycles should include testosterone.

saying that, it is possible to run a cycle with oral testosterone (andriol).

....expensive, fairly hard to find, and popping pills all the time.

I have asked here about winny only cycles and done some reading, it did not take long to find out most people say it's no good.

So my question... Is there any acceptable oral only cycle?

What if a person wants moderate gains and athletic look opposed to a full body builders physique? Would a moderate does of say anavar 60mg/day? for 8 weeks followed by the correct PTC render any sustainable gains?

I ask because I do not have readily available access to AAS. To get my hands on anything is pretty tough, and I am also not looking to be "huge."

I have been in the research phase of this for over a year now, still trying to get as much information as possible, and find out what would be right for me.

Thanks

[Aaron330]

Metalject, I am interested in testing out the oral-only cycle you listed. If I were to do this, would a cycle this mild need an AI, or any kind of PCT?

[Fcastle357]

Success can be had on oral only cycles but I wonder how hard you have actually looked for a source. I was in the same boat thinking I will never find one. After I put some effort into actually finding one it took me a month to find a reliable source and no not from these forums.
As far as pinning. Come on. You want it to easy. Your saying I don't want to put in the work to find some gear than I don't want to pin because it hurts. You gotta be all in. But it can be done. Good luck.

[Aaron330]

I have looked pretty hard for a source for the testocaps and I'm definitely in over my head. I am not sure how to even go about finding a legit source, but I will keep researching for the next few months. I'm not in too much of a hurry to do as much research as possible. My problem with sticking is not the fear of pain (I have a pretty high pain tolerance) but the fear of needles. I don't know why, but from the time I can remember needles have terrified me. The thought of sticking that metal object deep into my muscle and squirting juice into my body makes me extremely squeemish and nauseous. Some people are like that when they see blood, see mucous, etc. You can call it being a ***** if you want, but I've tried to get over that fear for years. (I would much rather fight Brock Lesnar than get my blood drawn lol). Unless I can get over this fear, sticking is not an option for me. I'm not trying to become a gearhead or put on 20lbs of muscle anyway, I just want to put on about 5 more lbs and see my strength numbers increase again. This is why I'm looking into the safest oral cycle possible.

[Bio-Active]

if you come across testosterone in an oral form it is so pricey, toxic and a pain since it has to be administered every 4 hrs I just don't think it's worth the headache. If your not ready to pin you are not ready for gear

[clarky.]

I have looked pretty hard for a source for the testocaps and I'm definitely in over my head. I am not sure how to even go about finding a legit source, but I will keep researching for the next few months. I'm not in too much of a hurry to do as much research as possible. My problem with sticking is not the fear of pain (I have a pretty high pain tolerance) but the fear of needles. I don't know why, but from the time I can remember needles have terrified me. The thought of sticking that metal object deep into my muscle and squirting juice into my body makes me extremely squeemish and nauseous. Some people are like that when they see blood, see mucous, etc. You can call it being a ***** if you want, but I've tried to get over that fear for years. (I would much rather fight Brock Lesnar than get my blood drawn lol). Unless I can get over this fear, sticking is not an option for me. I'm not trying to become a gearhead or put on 20lbs of muscle anyway, I just want to put on about 5 more lbs and see my strength numbers increase again. This is why I'm looking into the safest oral cycle possible.

STOP talking about sources this is how you will end up getting scammed AND if you really don't like needles AAS is not for you if you do these oral only cycles you will soon find out that you will lose everything as soon as you got it that is the honest truth

[OnTheSauce]

if you come across testosterone in an oral form it is so pricey, toxic and a pain since it has to be administered every 4 hrs I just don't think it's worth the headache. If your not ready to pin you are not ready for gear

Best advice

[crazy mike]

Get a set of balls and stab your a$$. Very easy and you don't have to inject more then once a week Safer to do then any orals and easier. Needle fear is just that a mental fear.

Use a moderately low dose and Arimidex. Use appropriate compounds as to goals. Simple Simon to understand, induce with oral PCT and as cheap as you can get. That's IMOP. ...crazy mike

[probuild42]

I have looked pretty hard for a source for the testocaps and I'm definitely in over my head. I am not sure how to even go about finding a legit source, but I will keep researching for the next few months. I'm not in too much of a hurry to do as much research as possible. My problem with sticking is not the fear of pain (I have a pretty high pain tolerance) but the fear of needles. I don't know why, but from the time I can remember needles have terrified me. The thought of sticking that metal object deep into my muscle and squirting juice into my body makes me extremely squeemish and nauseous. Some people are like that when they see blood, see mucous, etc. You can call it being a ***** if you want, but I've tried to get over that fear for years. (I would much rather fight Brock Lesnar than get my blood drawn lol). Unless I can get over this fear, sticking is not an option for me. I'm not trying to become a gearhead or put on 20lbs of muscle anyway, I just want to put on about 5 more lbs and see my strength numbers increase again. This is why I'm looking into the safest oral cycle possible.

IMHO. If your not in a hurry and you are only looking to gain 5lbs and strength. Why even mess with any AAS?!! And if you do a cycle incorrectly you could potentially set your self back further then where you started.

Hit the nutrition section and focus on developing work outs to attain your goals.

Stay strong and good luck!!

[Aaron330]

IMHO. If your not in a hurry and you are only looking to gain 5lbs and strength. Why even mess with any AAS?!! And if you do a cycle incorrectly you could potentially set your self back further then where you started.

Hit the nutrition section and focus on developing work outs to attain your goals.

Stay strong and good luck!!

Get a set of balls and stab your a$$. Very easy and you don't have to inject more then once a week Safer to do then any orals and easier. Needle fear is just that a mental fear.

Use a moderately low dose and Arimidex. Use appropriate compounds as to goals. Simple Simon to understand, induce with oral PCT and as cheap as you can get. That's IMOP. ...crazy mike

STOP talking about sources this is how you will end up getting scammed AND if you really don't like needles AAS is not for you if you do these oral only cycles you will soon find out that you will lose everything as soon as you got it that is the honest truth

if you come across testosterone in an oral form it is so pricey, toxic and a pain since it has to be administered every 4 hrs I just don't think it's worth the headache. If your not ready to pin you are not ready for gear

Thanks for the advice you guys, I think I'll take it. I definitely don't know as much as you when it comes to this stuff. Training and nutrition is definitely not the issue with me though, I think my body has just hit a plateau. I've been training hard 5 days a week and eating between 4-5k calories of nothing but clean food (brown rice, chicken, almond butter, veggies fruits, tuna, etc). I've been 195# (I'm 6 1') since January of this year. And although all my power and oly lifts have been steadily increasing, I haven't gained an ounce. It's just frustrating. I'm sure if I keep at it for another year my body will eventually break through the plateau.

[Othello]

My 2 cents...a long time ago i looked into andriol as a possible alternative since i was travelling a lot and didnt want to carry ampules and syringes with me thru customs and airports ....

this is an extremely long esther...if enanthate needs around 6 weeks to kick in then andriol needs roughly 11 or 12 making the cycle even longer and costly.

Over here it comes from organon (pharm grade) as bottles of 20x 40mg pills ... dosing it is also a hassle if one needs to keep test levels steady in the blood.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Steroid Forum

[Honkey_Kong]

Thanks for the advice you guys, I think I'll take it. I definitely don't know as much as you when it comes to this stuff. Training and nutrition is definitely not the issue with me though, I think my body has just hit a plateau. I've been training hard 5 days a week and eating between 4-5k calories of nothing but clean food (brown rice, chicken, almond butter, veggies fruits, tuna, etc). I've been 195# (I'm 6 1') since January of this year. And although all my power and oly lifts have been steadily increasing, I haven't gained an ounce. It's just frustrating. I'm sure if I keep at it for another year my body will eventually break through the plateau.

I don't know what your diet or your training exactly looks like, but I'm willing to bet one or both of them are flawed. Steroids aren't going to fix that. I suggest you post your diet in the diet section and see what kind of advice they can give you in there. And also post your training regimen in the training section.

195lbs at 6'1 isn't that much and most likely is not your natural limit.

And also, good luck finding Andriol. Getting enough of it to run is going to be a challenge for you. You're better off using injectables. After you take like an hour to muster the courage to give your first shot, you'll be fine.