Got the results of my blood test and it looks bad.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-12-2013, 10:31 PM

I did a 12 week 500 test e/500 deca ew cycle. Started Hcg on week for and did 2 shots a week. two weeks after my last pin I did a pct of nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 50/50/50/50. last pin was march 21st 2013. and my pct ended on may 2nd. I am now a few months post cycle, and my libido and energy are terrible. I got my free test checked and it came back at 99.0 which is insanely low. And my free t4 is very high 2.90..could that be the juice, or maybe I've always had a hyperactive thyroid and didn't know?? Either way my Dr. wants to put me onto throid medication to see the numbers go down. But as far as my test levels being so low, should I do another cycle of clomid to get my Lh going? Or should I wait it out and chalk it up to Deca being such a harsh suppressor? I really don't know what to do at this point. I have my full panel coming in the mail, and I will have more hormone levels to offer up when I get them.

**austinite** · 07-12-2013, 10:36 PM

This post is confusing, Jonny. Can you break down that paragraph into smaller details?

When did you start hCG ? How long did you run it and how much did you use?

Free test? Or total test? Please post your blood levels and give us the ranges for the lab you used.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-12-2013, 10:42 PM

Sorry Austinite, kinda wrote it in a panic haha. I ran Hcg starting on the fourth week of my cycle, 250 2x a week. I stopped using it 3 days before my pct. I believe it was my total test, I'm not sure the Dr. just wrote it down on a piece of paper for me, didn't give me a copy, although the lab sent out a copy and it should be in my mailbox in the next couple of days. I guess I'm probably gonna have to wait to have all the numbers before I can get some feedback.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-12-2013, 10:44 PM

But to brake it down...

Test- 99.0
Free t4 -2.90

Low test, High t4

I'm getting a thyroid scan next week and they are going to decide whether to put my on thyroid meds.

Don't know what to do about my insanely low Test levels though, I've been off of my cycle for months. I can tell you I am never doing Deca again, but that doesn't help me now.

I am considering running clomid again

**austinite** · 07-12-2013, 10:51 PM

Test what jonny? Testosterone , Total? Or Testosterone free? And what are the ranges please. 99 really doesn't tell me much.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-12-2013, 10:58 PM

Dr. just wrote down test 99.0....like I said I'm getting the full panel in the mail. don't have it yet. But I will definitely be seeking out your advice once I have all that info for you Austinite....tonight's post was a little hasty

**Hc7** · 07-13-2013, 12:54 AM

your nolva/clomid sound like theyre bunk

**BlueWaffle21** · 07-13-2013, 07:32 AM

Yeah man, I would grab better Clomid/nolva!!

**Jonnyg419** · 07-13-2013, 09:17 AM

I got the nolva from this sites sponsor, and the clomid was pharmacy tabs

**Jonnyg419** · 07-13-2013, 09:18 AM

either way, should I get clomid and try again?

**fit2bOld** · 07-13-2013, 10:35 AM

Wait on the numbers and the ranges, don't go all self medicating in a panic. So just be patient nothing is gonna happen in a few days....

**kelkel** · 07-13-2013, 10:43 AM

Obtain a complete copy of your blood work. Do not jump on thyroid meds due to a T4 reading only, that's just ridiculous. Post up your BW with ranges for evaluation. If you don't have a complete thyroid panel, obtain one. Did you get LH & FSH as well?

**Jonnyg419** · 07-13-2013, 11:17 AM

Im going to do more bloodwork in 10 days with LH and FSH, I think it is going to test every hormone that the pituitary gland creates.

I just got my bloodwork results out of the mailbox.

Testosterone , total, S: 99 ng/dL range[240-950]

Thyroid TSH: 0.005 mcIU/mL range [0.350-5.500]
Free T4: 2.90 ng/dL range [0.89-1.76]

As far as those 2 hormones are concerned that all I have for now, they have ordered an even more thorough test in about a week

**G0D** · 07-13-2013, 11:45 AM

that's it i changed my mind never deca , ever !! too many "help me im screwed" posts !

**Jonnyg419** · 07-13-2013, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by G0D

that's it i changed my mind never deca, ever !! too many "help me im screwed" posts !

I'm gonna agree with you, I had great gains, but it is all for nothing if it is followed by months of insanely low testosterone . Everyone is different though. Some guys bounce right back...not myself though.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-13-2013, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by fit2bOld

Wait on the numbers and the ranges, don't go all self medicating in a panic. So just be patient nothing is gonna happen in a few days....

As far as my thyroid is concerned, the Dr....a legit one, wants to put me on thyroid meds. And as for my test levels. I'll wait it out a little longer. But I have to say, my energy, overall feeling of well being, and libido are terrible. So it is getting harder and harder to wait it out

**asiandudexxx** · 07-13-2013, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Jonnyg419

As far as my thyroid is concerned, the Dr....a legit one, wants to put me on thyroid meds. And as for my test levels. I'll wait it out a little longer. But I have to say, my energy, overall feeling of well being, and libido are terrible. So it is getting harder and harder to wait it out

Are they going to check for Hashimoto's disease? That would explain those insane TSH+FT4 numbers.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-13-2013, 02:04 PM

I don't think they check for any specific one disease, they get the numbers and scan the thyroid and diagnose based on the findings

**Jonnyg419** · 07-13-2013, 10:19 PM

bump

**Jonnyg419** · 07-15-2013, 09:47 AM

Bump again, nobody has actually given me a single piece of info

**kelkel** · 07-15-2013, 10:21 AM

Jonny there's really not enough info presented yet to hazard a guess. Many things can kill test levels. Thyroid as noted, prolactin (think 19Nor), cortisol. I'd be interested specifically with your LH & FSH to see where they've landed at this time.

**5x10** · 07-15-2013, 11:53 AM

U ran pct 2 weeks after your last shot of deca , and due to the long half life of deca, you still had enough in your system to keep you suppressed and makes your pct worthless
I suggest a hcg blast followed by another round of Nola/clomid

**Jonnyg419** · 07-17-2013, 01:56 PM

well this is definitely one of those live and learn situations. I am very upset because i started dieting in the summer and was lookin good. But I feel like I am burning off muscle at beyond the piont of just loosing my cycle gains, I have now had low test for so long that it is dropping my muscle mass, and my actual lifts down to way below they were before I even started. So in a sence, the deca test cycle actually left me worse off than when I started. Out of depression I have been binge eating on carbs for the last week or so, and now I've even added a bloated look on top of it( I know that i completely did that to myself, total **** up) Today I am immersing myself back into macro counting, and clean eating. I am not going to let a set back like this kill my motivation and my discipline. I know that I can't really count on making any gains with such low test levels, but slowly and surely I am sure it will get handled. I do have proffesionals sending me in for tests to try and figure it out. I am getting another, more thorough hormone panel done next week, with my Lh and Fsh levels, along with test levels, and all my thyroid numbers, as well as a throid scan.
The only thing that concerns me is I don't think they would have any idea what to do as far as re stimulating my Lh and Fsh levels, considering most doctors know nothing about steroid use and it effects. I am positive they can help me with my thyroid, but I have a feeling they will be at an end with what to do about my extremely low total test levels. They mentioned a test patch, but I personally don't think it will help because given the nature of the 19 nor steroids that I took, i think It is a Lh/Fsh problem rather than a hormone replacement problem. I am pretty positive, if I follow the right protocol I can get my boys stimulated again and pumping their own test, rather than just masking the problem with hrt.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-17-2013, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by 5x10

U ran pct 2 weeks after your last shot of deca , and due to the long half life of deca, you still had enough in your system to keep you suppressed and makes your pct worthless
I suggest a hcg blast followed by another round of Nola/clomid

Thats really what I've been thinking, but so far everyone else has been telling me that its a bad idea without all the numbers. So I can at least be patient enough to wait till my extended blood tests next week, and if it turns out my Fsh/Lh hormones are low, I might end up doing something close to what you just suggested.

**asiandudexxx** · 07-17-2013, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Jonnyg419

Thats really what I've been thinking, but so far everyone else has been telling me that its a bad idea without all the numbers. So I can at least be patient enough to wait till my extended blood tests next week, and if it turns out my Fsh/Lh hormones are low, I might end up doing something close to what you just suggested.

Are they checking your Anti-TPO & TgAb in your extended BW? Those will indicate whether you have hashimoto's thyroiditis or not. Hashi's is an autimmune disorder where your body attacks your thyroid.

Almost forget Graves disease. Hopefully they also check TPO-Ab, TRAb, TSHR Ab, TSI.

It may be a longer road, but you'll be okay. Like 5x10 suggested, you probably just need to run your PCT again. Deca can cause longer shutdown since it is lasts a while in the body. Metabolites can even be present 12-18 months after cessation.

Good luck.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-17-2013, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by asiandudexxx

Are they checking your Anti-TPO & TgAb in your extended BW? Those will indicate whether you have hashimoto's thyroiditis or not. Hashi's is an autimmune disorder where your body attacks your thyroid.

Almost forget Graves disease. Hopefully they also check TPO-Ab, TRAb, TSHR Ab, TSI.

It may be a longer road, but you'll be okay. Like 5x10 suggested, you probably just need to run your PCT again. Deca can cause longer shutdown since it is lasts a while in the body. Metabolites can even be present 12-18 months after cessation.

Good luck.

I cant remember the exact names that they told me, but they are going to be running multiple tests to see what the particular problem with my thyroid is. It is going to be pretty thorough. I'll give full info on that once I get it. And as for the test, yeah I am pretty sure a second pct is in order

**Jonnyg419** · 07-18-2013, 09:30 AM

Keep it coming guys. I appreciate what I've got so far, but I like to hear as much as possible from as many vets as I can get to read this!

**toilet** · 07-18-2013, 08:47 PM

just out of interest op how old are you? have a feeling you are over 25. just seems disheartening to see people doing everything correctly and still getting fhked up. really hope you recover soon op that sucks

**gymfu** · 07-18-2013, 09:32 PM

I've been in your same position. After living through it and learning this is what I recommend

First I'm assuming your still under 40? If so I'd fight to come back natural.

Get more hcg , arimidex , clomid, and nolvadex .

Week 1-3
Hcg 300ius x2/week
Arimidex 0.5mg ED

Last day of 3rd week
1500ius of hcg

Weeks 4-8
Clomid
Nolva
100/50/50/50/50
40/40/20/20/20

Get it ordered now, if your like me it's not going to get any better by just waiting.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-18-2013, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by toilet

just out of interest op how old are you? have a feeling you are over 25. just seems disheartening to see people doing everything correctly and still getting fhked up. really hope you recover soon op that sucks

Thanks man, I am 28.And yeah...I really didn't see this coming. I feel I have now had low test for such a long period that I have dropped to a worse physique and less strength than when I even started. I am still in great shape, but my strength has now dropped to below the base of where it was before I ever juiced, which makes me very frustrated in the gym.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-18-2013, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by gymfu

I've been in your same position. After living through it and learning this is what I recommend

First I'm assuming your still under 40? If so I'd fight to come back natural.

Get more hcg , arimidex , clomid, and nolvadex .

Week 1-3
Hcg 300ius x2/week
Arimidex 0.5mg ED

Last day of 3rd week
1500ius of hcg

Weeks 4-8
Clomid
Nolva
100/50/50/50/50
40/40/20/20/20

Get it ordered now, if your like me it's not going to get any better by just waiting.

Yes I am under 40, and that is exactly what I wanted to do! I just wanted someone with some experience to give me a solid plan, so that I wasn't winging it with guesses. There really isn't that much info out there on post- post cycles haha. Thank you so much Gymfu, I'm ordering now brotha.

**toilet** · 07-18-2013, 10:19 PM

oh wow. what number cycle is this for you? assuming not your first... sorry again for no actual worthy input.

**Jonnyg419** · 07-18-2013, 10:20 PM

Would it hurt to add proviron to that pct?

**Krb367** · 07-19-2013, 02:22 AM

I hope the best for you bro. I'm 27 and this is one the nightmares that's kept me from jumping on a cycle yet..

**Jonnyg419** · 07-19-2013, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Krb367

I hope the best for you bro. I'm 27 and this is one the nightmares that's kept me from jumping on a cycle yet..

Yeah it is not fun

**Jonnyg419** · 07-19-2013, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by toilet

oh wow. what number cycle is this for you? assuming not your first... sorry again for no actual worthy input.

It was my second cycle. First was test only. That cycle went beautifully haha

**gymfu** · 07-27-2013, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Jonnyg419

Would it hurt to add proviron to that pct?

Yes it would, proviron is a steroid , and would be HPTA suppressive.

**Whiteboyy0** · 07-27-2013, 10:21 PM

So do you think it was the deca that did it? I've read a lot f negatives about it on this board

**gymfu** · 07-27-2013, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteboyy0

So do you think it was the deca that did it? I've read a lot f negatives about it on this board

That's what I blame for mine. It was my second cycle, but my test levels were only 450 before I ever used any AAS.

My theory is deca is SO suppressive and SUCH a long ester that the recommended protocol here is to run test a week longer then deca and that's just not enough. IMO deca needs to be discontinued and test ran for prob 2-4 weeks longer and hcg is a MUST.

The most aggressive PCT imaginable will probobably need to be used.

**onetwonine** · 07-28-2013, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Jonnyg419

Thanks man, I am 28.And yeah...I really didn't see this coming. I feel I have now had low test for such a long period that I have dropped to a worse physique and less strength than when I even started. I am still in great shape, but my strength has now dropped to below the base of where it was before I ever juiced, which makes me very frustrated in the gym.

Dude who cares.

Get your hormones back right and your physique will follow. Don't let that cause any undue stress.

I know its hard to grasp at times but your physique matters to absolutely no one and nothing (unless you're a competing athlete) but you. Since thats the case, any distress you let it cause you is all self made. Just learn to accept that you'll have to be patient, then work hard for it when you are able to again.