What Would 12 Pounds Of LBM Look Like?

[Brazensol]

Does 12 pounds of lbm sound reasonable for a first cycle of 400mg test cyp? If yes, what types of gains in size would that roughly equate too? About 1/2" to 3/4" on arms? One or two inches on legs and chest? Is this question even answerable? Just curious what to expect next year. lol.

Since I'm asking - how much would my lifts increase? 25%? More?

Diet will be (as it is now) very good and bf will be 12%-13%. Or lower.

I'd really like to hear some of your first cycle gains and experiences! Don't need all the details just let me know how it turned out for you! Thanks.

[crazy mike]

Haaaaaa! It was back in 1982 and I have no clue. That's a funny question for me. ...crazy mike

[Bert]

That's a whole lot of muscle.

[OnTheSauce]

12lbm is a good bit. Where u gain it will depend a lot on your genetics and training. My back and legs grow easily where as my chest and arms are slow. But I know others with fast arms and slow growing legs

[austinite]

Does 12 pounds of lbm sound reasonable for a first cycle of 400mg test cyp? If yes, what types of gains in size would that roughly equate too? About 1/2" to 3/4" on arms? One or two inches on legs and chest? Is this question even answerable? Just curious what to expect next year. lol.

Since I'm asking - how much would my lifts increase? 25%? More?

Diet will be (as it is now) very good and bf will be 12%-13%. Or lower.

I'd really like to hear some of your first cycle gains and experiences! Don't need all the details just let me know how it turned out for you! Thanks.

I'm a big fan of setting the bar high, or "shooting for the moon" with your goals. But I'm a bigger fan of being realistic. You've probably heard it a million times. You'll gain 20 to 30 lbs of muscle from your cycle. This is far from the truth. Not even remotely close, actually. Muscle is very hard to attain, and even harder to retain. So yes, if you're eating in a decent surplus over TDEE, you'll likely gain 20+ lbs. But that's not nearly all muscle. This is a combination of muscle, fat and lots of water. This is why folks say "I lost my gains" post cycle. Well, you're shedding all the water out and you're left with some fat and muscle. With fat taking up a lot more area than muscle, you'll have plenty of that, too.

Think about it, if I actually gained 20 lbs per cycle... and I've been cycling on and off for 17 years, I'd be a 700+ lb man that's all muscle. Not so realistic, is it?

If you run your 12 week cycle, assuming your diet is in check and on point, you should be very proud of yourself if you managed to attain 5 to 6 lbs of solid lean muscle. Doesn't sound like much, does it? Well, that's the reality. You'll likely gain 20 lbs, shed about 8 to 10 lbs of water, and you're left with 5 to 6 lbs of muscle and some fat. Water is a huge misleading effect. Weigh yourself before you go to bed, then weigh yourself in the morning. You'll notice that you're lighter in the morning. You can lose anywhere from 1 to 5 lbs overnight. When you sleep, you perspire and exhale several pounds of water. This is why photoshoots are done in the mornings many times, because that's when you're the leanest.

Strength gains are generous and 20 to 25% is possible but probably not with 400 mg of testosterone. Most of the "Super Gains" people claim are a result of inaccurate body fat testing methods, such as calipers and gym scales.

[RipOwens]

I'm a big fan of setting the bar high, or "shooting for the moon" with your goals. But I'm a bigger fan of being realistic. You've probably heard it a million times. You'll gain 20 to 30 lbs of muscle from your cycle. This is far from the truth. Not even remotely close, actually. Muscle is very hard to attain, and even harder to retain. So yes, if you're eating in a decent surplus over TDEE, you'll likely gain 20+ lbs. But that's not nearly all muscle. This is a combination of muscle, fat and lots of water. This is why folks say "I lost my gains" post cycle. Well, you're shedding all the water out and you're left with some fat and muscle. With fat taking up a lot more area than muscle, you'll have plenty of that, too.

Think about it, if I actually gained 20 lbs per cycle... and I've been cycling on and off for 17 years, I'd be a 700+ lb man that's all muscle. Not so realistic, is it?

If you run your 12 week cycle, assuming your diet is in check and on point, you should be very proud of yourself if you managed to attain 5 to 6 lbs of solid lean muscle. Doesn't sound like much, does it? Well, that's the reality. You'll likely gain 20 lbs, shed about 8 to 10 lbs of water, and you're left with 5 to 6 lbs of muscle and some fat. Water is a huge misleading effect. Weigh yourself before you go to bed, then weigh yourself in the morning. You'll notice that you're lighter in the morning. You can lose anywhere from 1 to 5 lbs overnight. When you sleep, you perspire and exhale several pounds of water. This is why photoshoots are done in the mornings many times, because that's when you're the leanest.

Strength gains are generous and 20 to 25% is possible but probably not with 400 mg of testosterone. Most of the "Super Gains" people claim are a result of inaccurate body fat testing methods, such as calipers and gym scales.

So that's why I look so good in the morning...

[tdoe11]

I'm a big fan of setting the bar high, or "shooting for the moon" with your goals. But I'm a bigger fan of being realistic. You've probably heard it a million times. You'll gain 20 to 30 lbs of muscle from your cycle. This is far from the truth. Not even remotely close, actually. Muscle is very hard to attain, and even harder to retain. So yes, if you're eating in a decent surplus over TDEE, you'll likely gain 20+ lbs. But that's not nearly all muscle. This is a combination of muscle, fat and lots of water. This is why folks say "I lost my gains" post cycle. Well, you're shedding all the water out and you're left with some fat and muscle. With fat taking up a lot more area than muscle, you'll have plenty of that, too.

Think about it, if I actually gained 20 lbs per cycle... and I've been cycling on and off for 17 years, I'd be a 700+ lb man that's all muscle. Not so realistic, is it?

If you run your 12 week cycle, assuming your diet is in check and on point, you should be very proud of yourself if you managed to attain 5 to 6 lbs of solid lean muscle. Doesn't sound like much, does it? Well, that's the reality. You'll likely gain 20 lbs, shed about 8 to 10 lbs of water, and you're left with 5 to 6 lbs of muscle and some fat. Water is a huge misleading effect. Weigh yourself before you go to bed, then weigh yourself in the morning. You'll notice that you're lighter in the morning. You can lose anywhere from 1 to 5 lbs overnight. When you sleep, you perspire and exhale several pounds of water. This is why photoshoots are done in the mornings many times, because that's when you're the leanest.

Strength gains are generous and 20 to 25% is possible but probably not with 400 mg of testosterone. Most of the "Super Gains" people claim are a result of inaccurate body fat testing methods, such as calipers and gym scales.

Very thorough as always sir

[< <Samson> >]

12 Pounds of LBM is quite a bit. On my first cycle that's pretty much what I was left with. Started at 184 & 14%Bf went to 244 Pounds. Waited, then started to lean up hard. I got down to 197 & about 15%Bf.

After that ran two cycles bridged together and gained LBM while losing fat. I climbed to about 12%Bf and 207 pounds. After cycle I didn't get fatter but lost all my water. No BF was lost and no LBM apparently.

Now I'm 197 and still at like 12-14% Bf.


Gaining LBM is tough, it's nothing like losing fat.

[Brazensol]

So 12 pounds was a bit "optimistic"! Five or six is fine too! Of course I realize most gains will come with the first cycles otherwise you'd end up to big to move evenutally. Let me give yu guys some idea what I am aiming for. My first short term goal is 180 pounds @ 12%-13% body fat. I figure I need to add about 13 pounds of lbm to attain this. Does one year or so seem reasonable for this? Will probably only run 1 cycle (maybe 2) in this time with the first cycle hopefully coming next spring or maybe late winter. Might consider another cycle (depending on how #1 goes) for the fall/early winter of 2014. Does this seem realistic? I don't want to set unrealistic goals that have no real chance of success. Thanks.

[austinite]

So 12 pounds was a bit "optimistic"! Five or six is fine too! Of course I realize most gains will come with the first cycles otherwise you'd end up to big to move evenutally. Let me give yu guys some idea what I am aiming for. My first short term goal is 180 pounds @ 12%-13% body fat. I figure I need to add about 13 pounds of lbm to attain this. Does one year or so seem reasonable for this? Will probably only run 1 cycle (maybe 2) in this time with the first cycle hopefully coming next spring or maybe late winter. Might consider another cycle (depending on how #1 goes) for the fall/early winter of 2014. Does this seem realistic? I don't want to set unrealistic goals that have no real chance of success. Thanks.

Seems realistic enough for me.

[jimmyinkedup]

12lbs=astounding transformation and a bit unrealistic perhaps after all is said and done.

[spiralkut]

my first cycle i went from 80kg to 98kg in 12 weeks ended up going back down to 80kg as instead of PCT i went to europe and took recreational drugs every day for 4 weeks

[< <Samson> >]

If you aren't big to start with and have been working on getting big the juice will make you grow.

But, the real problem lies in how much your natty body will keep.

Where I am now is cool, 200 pounds at 5'10" @ under 14% Bf is very fair. It is not easy to keep though, for me at least.

Any bigger than this and I know I will require continues juicing. I know my body is not naturally designed to retain 10% Bf and 225 pounds.


After reading countless posts on here and all over the interweb along with being sauced for almost two years, I understand how this shit works.


Yet all of this is not set in stone. I spoke to guys who look like beasts compared to me and still run fairly mild cycles and just PCT. Yet, I spoke with some who are smaller than I am and continuously juice.

Is it the diet, the genetics or the time in the gym? It's all of it - there is no magic, it's just the way it is.

12 pounds of LBM is possible, shit I did it. But, it's just newb muscle, after you get to your max frame potential your growth comes to a damn near halt.

[Brazensol]

If you aren't big to start with and have been working on getting big the juice will make you grow.

But, the real problem lies in how much your natty body will keep.

Where I am now is cool, 200 pounds at 5'10" @ under 14% Bf is very fair. It is not easy to keep though, for me at least.

Any bigger than this and I know I will require continues juicing. I know my body is not naturally designed to retain 10% Bf and 225 pounds.


After reading countless posts on here and all over the interweb along with being sauced for almost two years, I understand how this shit works.


Yet all of this is not set in stone. I spoke to guys who look like beasts compared to me and still run fairly mild cycles and just PCT. Yet, I spoke with some who are smaller than I am and continuously juice.

Is it the diet, the genetics or the time in the gym? It's all of it - there is no magic, it's just the way it is.

12 pounds of LBM is possible, shit I did it. But, it's just newb muscle, after you get to your max frame potential your growth comes to a damn near halt.

The gym and diet is all on me and I think my head (and desire) are in the right place to make this transformation happen. Genetics is the wild card and I don't know how I will fair in the end but so far I seem to be at least average and I am beginning to think perhaps a bit above average. I am still quite amazed at how much I have changed my physique in just 4 short months. I really started this quest in earnest on 4 April which is when I bought my bike. I started to ride it the very same day.

I've cleaned my diet up so much I have even suprised myself! BUT! I actually enjoy eating this way. I feel so much better and it beats the hell out of what I used to eat. Even my wife is changing her ways because she sees the results I am having. It's contagious that way! She now wants me to log and plan all her meals.

I am also 5'10" and if I could hit 200# @ 14'ish bf, that would be awesome! I am without a doubt a mesomorph with, perhaps, some endomorphic tendencies. I think my genetics will allow considerable more advancement. Shoulders are fairly wide and my waist looks like it is going to end up around 32.0"-33.0" by tape measure, not pant size. So, proportionally, I should be ok. Age will be a factor at 51. Recovery is not as fast as when younger. Being on trt and T3/T4 has really helped me along. Before these I couldn't lose weight and really didn't care what shape I was in anyway. Now my attitude has changed and the more improvements I make the more I want to do.

What I really am going to need is guidance from you vets to take this as far as I can. At this stage of my life I can afford the good food and any worthwhile sups I might need (not hgh, lol). I am hoping, like you mentioined, that I can get by on lower doses of aas's and with a lot of luck maybe nothing much stronger than test cyp. I look forward to all the help I can get from you vets.

[< <Samson> >]

Hat's off to you old bro

51 is some miles, I'm 33 and I feel shit that I didn't at 23.

Good luck man

Use my equation: juice+food+lifting routine+ time = gains

For some it takes a fair amount of sauce and the rest to make a huge difference. It sure did for me.