My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

**Wannabhuge14** · 11-11-2019, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by $BlackBeard

austinite Just want to express my thanks for posting this material. While I do have experience with AAS, it’s been quite a while since I’ve ran a cycle. This has been a most helpful refresher. Again, thanks!

Most of the advice in his post is garbage. Test only cycles are a big waste of time and arimidex is going to hinder any gains you may have gotten in the first place. He should be taken out behind the shed for posting such terrible advice.

**$BlackBeard** · 11-13-2019, 06:35 AM

Ok, while not advocating death for another member, is a low dose (10mg) of Nolvadex recommended to run on a first cycle instead of Arimidex ?

**Wannabhuge14** · 11-13-2019, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by $BlackBeard

Ok, while not advocating death for another member, is a low dose (10mg) of Nolvadex recommended to run on a first cycle instead of Arimidex?

Nolva is fine. It only blocks estrogen at the receptor sites. Unlike arimidex it won’t stop aromatization from happening. Estrogen is extremely anabolic so why anyone would want to stop it is beyond me.

**Gallowmere** · 11-13-2019, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Wannabhuge14

Nolva is fine. It only blocks estrogen at the receptor sites. Unlike arimidex it won’t stop aromatization from happening. Estrogen is extremely anabolic so why anyone would want to stop it is beyond me.

Because people still believe correlative bullshit from the 70s-80s. To be fair though, we’re just now finally starting to see good RCTs on various estradiol mediated stuff.

For an interesting listen, check my most recent post in the newer podcast thread. It’s about an hour and a half of Broderick Chavez, Lyle McDonald and Alex Kikkel tearing apart all of the nonsense about estrogen.

**Wannabhuge14** · 11-13-2019, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Gallowmere

Because people still believe correlative bullshit from the 70s-80s. To be fair though, we’re just now finally starting to see good RCTs on various estradiol mediated stuff.

For an interesting listen, check my most recent post in the newer podcast thread. It’s about an hour and a half of Broderick Chavez, Lyle McDonald and Alex Kikkel tearing apart all of the nonsense about estrogen.

I’d be very interested to give that a listen. Can you give me a link?

**Gallowmere** · 11-13-2019, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Wannabhuge14

I’d be very interested to give that a listen. Can you give me a link?

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000456583984

**Wannabhuge14** · 11-13-2019, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Gallowmere

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000456583984

Thanks I’ll give it a listen.

**Windex** · 11-13-2019, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Wannabhuge14

Most of the advice in his post is garbage. Test only cycles are a big waste of time and arimidex is going to hinder any gains you may have gotten in the first place. He should be taken out behind the shed for posting such terrible advice.

Austinite is bigger than you future chump. No clue where you got the audacity to insult a staff member on a thread that is 6 years old. Protocols change.

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...preciated.html

Don't forget about your two failed cycles and embarrassing stats punk.

Stay small kid.

**$BlackBeard** · 11-13-2019, 12:26 PM

Windex, I agree and to your point about protocols changing - can you reference a more up-to-date info about AI on cycle? Maybe it's just to have it available or to use as needed. I have spent the last few months reading on here prior to signing up. I referenced that I have previously used AAS 18+ years ago, so I'm, somewhat getting a re-education. PCT seems mostly the same as from years ago.

**T.W** · 01-16-2020, 01:23 AM

Now that it is 2020 are there any updates on 1st cycles and pct or hcg etc etc or we still go with old thread? Looking for some up to date info. Ty again

**GearHeaded** · 01-16-2020, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by T.W

Now that it is 2020 are there any updates on 1st cycles and pct or hcg etc etc or we still go with old thread? Looking for some up to date info. Ty again

500mg of Test E with an AI like arimdifex from day 1 is NOT a very good cycle imo, and especially not for beginners. 9 times out of 10 guys that get on forums after their first cycle of this and they complain how shitty they feel and how crappy their cycle is going and how their libido has crashed etc.. is from running this old protocol.

lots of more efficient and ideal ways to cycle. but really it depends on the persons situation and goals.

**Gallowmere** · 01-16-2020, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

500mg of Test E with an AI like arimdifex from day 1 is NOT a very good cycle imo, and especially not for beginners. 9 times out of 10 guys that get on forums after their first cycle of this and they complain how shitty they feel and how crappy their cycle is going and how their libido has crashed etc.. is from running this old protocol.

lots of more efficient and ideal ways to cycle. but really it depends on the persons situation and goals.

This.
My first 600mg cycle, I was following all of these recs except for HcG , because my nuts never worked anyway. Lo and behold, I was feeling rough going into week two. Read around some newer info, dropped the aromasin and was feeling fantastic and getting stronger within a week.

**andrea311** · 01-16-2020, 10:48 AM

Great thread! Will definitely read it carefully.

**NCC1968** · 01-17-2020, 12:13 AM

I've taken the many hrs needed to go from start to finish reading this.

I am prepared to start my first cycle based on the info here, but would like to know what is the consensus as to what, if any, modification should be made to the basic cycle presented in the thread start.

**andrea311** · 01-17-2020, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by NCC1968

I've taken the many hrs needed to go from start to finish reading this.

I am prepared to start my first cycle based on the info here, but would like to know what is the consensus as to what, if any, modification should be made to the basic cycle presented in the thread start.

Same question as NCC1968. Is there any modification to be made to the cycle presented in this thread?
Also: what are your personal experiences? Do you always use an AI on cycle? There are studies showing it is often counterproductive.
Thanks in advance.

**andrea311** · 01-17-2020, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

Introduction

hCG is vital if you are concerned about recovery. In short, it will prevent testicular atrophy, maintain your natural testosterone production (Because steroids shut that down); thus resulting in a healthier and a more speedy recovery.

First of all thank you for this precious thread. I've read the whole thing before posting so I hope this question hasn't been asked already.
I'm currently running my very first cycle (just completed week 1):

Week 1 – Week 12: Testosterone Enanthate 500 mg/week total (250 mg + 250 mg)
Week 1 – Week 12: Arimidex 0.25 mg EOD

Question:
I had previously been told HcG is not at all necessary since it is a very basic light cycle. Now that I've read your post I'm not so sure anymore and I don't want to fuck it up. I've already started my cycle and can't go back in time. So the question is: if I buy the HcG now, can I start it mid-end of cycle?

Thanks!

**Slick88** · 01-17-2020, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

500mg of Test E with an AI like arimdifex from day 1 is NOT a very good cycle imo, and especially not for beginners. 9 times out of 10 guys that get on forums after their first cycle of this and they complain how shitty they feel and how crappy their cycle is going and how their libido has crashed etc.. is from running this old protocol.

lots of more efficient and ideal ways to cycle. but really it depends on the persons situation and goals.

Can you please elaborate a bit. I’ve read a lot of your posts on AI and test, which were very helpful.

Do you feel that guys are having a bad experience because they are running AI at too high of a dose? So for example, keeping test at 500 but dropping AI to like .1 EOD? Or another reason

**KINGKONG** · 01-17-2020, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Windex

Protocols change

They sure do!In 20 years I’ve been on gear.. I’ve seen them change 20x..For me Test is my favorite compound with least sides and most gains stacked with small doses of “companion” steroids ..that’s my body..

“Used to think I knew it all, then got older”

**andrea311** · 01-18-2020, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by T.W

Now that it is 2020 are there any updates on 1st cycles and pct or hcg etc etc or we still go with old thread? Looking for some up to date info. Ty again

Wish someone answered that question too mate... This thread is gold, it's amazing cause it explains everything and it's extremely detailed, but it's from 2013 so one would assume something may have changed in the meantime in terms of protocols.

**Chark** · 01-18-2020, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by andrea311

First of all thank you for this precious thread. I've read the whole thing before posting so I hope this question hasn't been asked already.
I'm currently running my very first cycle (just completed week 1):

Week 1 – Week 12: Testosterone Enanthate 500 mg/week total (250 mg + 250 mg)
Week 1 – Week 12: Arimidex 0.25 mg EOD

Question:
I had previously been told HcG is not at all necessary since it is a very basic light cycle. Now that I've read your post I'm not so sure anymore and I don't want to fuck it up. I've already started my cycle and can't go back in time. So the question is: if I buy the HcG now, can I start it mid-end of cycle?

Thanks!

I think if you’re wise you’ll use HcG. Since you’re only through week 1 I’ve read you don’t yet need HcG as you’re not yet suppressed.

I’m on my 1st too and am using 10mg nolva ED instead of using an AI as suggested by members of the forum. At only 500mg, you may not need to crash your estrogen and if you begin with an AI you won’t be able to learn if you’re estrogen sensitive. I may consider using low dose aromasin post cycle if I can find GearHeaded’s protocol...made sense to bring estrogen down when test is at an all-time low a couple weeks after your last shot of E so that estrogen:test won’t be AS imbalanced.

**andrea311** · 01-19-2020, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Chark

I think if you’re wise you’ll use HcG . Since you’re only through week 1 I’ve read you don’t yet need HcG as you’re not yet suppressed.

I’m on my 1st too and am using 10mg nolva ED instead of using an AI as suggested by members of the forum. At only 500mg, you may not need to crash your estrogen and if you begin with an AI you won’t be able to learn if you’re estrogen sensitive. I may consider using low dose aromasin post cycle if I can find GearHeaded’s protocol...made sense to bring estrogen down when test is at an all-time low a couple weeks after your last shot of E so that estrogen:test won’t be AS imbalanced.

What cycle are you running? And did you do blood workd pre and mid cycle? Why did you decide not to take an AI?
Guys, this way it's very difficult to decide how to proceed... Almost everybody says to take an AI and now you're saying you're using Nolva on cycle instead? I'm so confused.

As for HcG: I'm confused about HcG too. I've read (not on this forum) that it's stupid to use HcG while on cycle because you'll just confuse your body. Why would you want to stimulate the gonads to produce testosterone if you're already injecting high doses of exogenous testosterone? The only period it's wise to use HcG is right after your last injection for the 2 weeks prior to PCT.

**andrea311** · 01-19-2020, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

500mg of Test E with an AI like arimdifex from day 1 is NOT a very good cycle imo, and especially not for beginners. 9 times out of 10 guys that get on forums after their first cycle of this and they complain how shitty they feel and how crappy their cycle is going and how their libido has crashed etc.. is from running this old protocol.

lots of more efficient and ideal ways to cycle. but really it depends on the persons situation and goals.

I wanted to send you a PM but I can't. Can you tell me what would you recommend then and why? So you think this blueprint for 1st cycle should not be followed? Thanks.

**i_SLAM_cougars** · 01-19-2020, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by andrea311

I wanted to send you a PM but I can't. Can you tell me what would you recommend then and why? So you think this blueprint for 1st cycle should not be followed? Thanks.

Obviously you can wait for GearHeaded’s response, but I’m of the opinion that that 250mg/wk of test and 50mg of anavar a day is way more potent that 500mg of test, and less likely to exhibit any side effects. There are obviously some other ideas dependent on your goals.

**Chark** · 01-19-2020, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by andrea311

What cycle are you running? And did you do blood workd pre and mid cycle? Why did you decide not to take an AI?
Guys, this way it's very difficult to decide how to proceed... Almost everybody says to take an AI and now you're saying you're using Nolva on cycle instead? I'm so confused.

As for HcG: I'm confused about HcG too. I've read (not on this forum) that it's stupid to use HcG while on cycle because you'll just confuse your body. Why would you want to stimulate the gonads to produce testosterone if you're already injecting high doses of exogenous testosterone? The only period it's wise to use HcG is right after your last injection for the 2 weeks prior to PCT.

https://forums.steroid.com/members-c...1st-cycle.html

I’m using nolva to block estrogen at receptor sites instead of crushing estrogen via AI. Lots of benefits to test aromatizing to estrogen. AI in our 500mg/wk case is likely equivalent to cutting foot off to cure hangnail. If you plan on cycling more than once it could be beneficial to see if you even need an AI by seeing how you respond to elevated estrogen.

With HcG there’s also more than one way people look at it. I’ve seen it like you said (stupid to use while on) where the blast method at the end is preferred and I’ve read using while on can kickstart PCT bc balls are now ready to go.

Just sharing the protocol I’m running, could definitely change with my continued learning. Good luck man.

**NCC1968** · 01-19-2020, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Chark

https://forums.steroid.com/members-c...1st-cycle.html..........If you plan on cycling more than once it could be beneficial to see if you even need an AI by seeing how you respond to elevated estrogen.

With HcG there’s also more than one way people look at it. I’ve seen it like you said (stupid to use while on) where the blast method at the end is preferred and I’ve read using while on can kickstart PCT bc balls are now ready to go.
.............

I have everything listed at the thread start and am planning to begin my first cycle about mid Feb. I'm now thinking to just hold onto the AI in case I need it and still thinking about how to use the HcG. Hopefully I'll sort it out and feel good about it w/o delaying my start.

**andrea311** · 01-19-2020, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars

Obviously you can wait for GearHeaded’s response, but I’m of the opinion that that 250mg/wk of test and 50mg of anavar a day is way more potent that 500mg of test, and less likely to exhibit any side effects. There are obviously some other ideas dependent on your goals.

Maybe you're right. I don't know. Not planning on running orals though... It's my first cycle and I need to understand how my body reacts to testosterone before stacking it with anything else.

**andrea311** · 01-19-2020, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Chark

https://forums.steroid.com/members-c...1st-cycle.html

I’m using nolva to block estrogen at receptor sites instead of crushing estrogen via AI. Lots of benefits to test aromatizing to estrogen. AI in our 500mg/wk case is likely equivalent to cutting foot off to cure hangnail. If you plan on cycling more than once it could be beneficial to see if you even need an AI by seeing how you respond to elevated estrogen.

With HcG there’s also more than one way people look at it. I’ve seen it like you said (stupid to use while on) where the blast method at the end is preferred and I’ve read using while on can kickstart PCT bc balls are now ready to go.

Just sharing the protocol I’m running, could definitely change with my continued learning. Good luck man.

Yeah, I will definitely follow your thread and see how it's going for you man!

So you are using HcG while on after all. I think I will use it towards the end of my cycle...

Keep us up to date and good luck to you as well man.

**Chark** · 01-19-2020, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by andrea311

Yeah, I will definitely follow your thread and see how it's going for you man!

So you are using HcG while on after all. I think I will use it towards the end of my cycle...

Keep us up to date and good luck to you as well man.

I can’t take any issue with your approach. I can tell by your posts that you’re going to be smart and just fine.

Another reason I decided to run Nolva right off the rip (besides peace of mind) was that I believe I may be estrogen sensitive due to pubertal puffiness and that I was cycling with a higher BF% than what I’ve seen suggested as ideal (which will increase your chances of problems)

Please do follow my progress! I plan to get more pics up soon, trying to add every 2 weeks.

**andrea311** · 01-20-2020, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Chark

I can’t take any issue with your approach. I can tell by your posts that you’re going to be smart and just fine.

Another reason I decided to run Nolva right off the rip (besides peace of mind) was that I believe I may be estrogen sensitive due to pubertal puffiness and that I was cycling with a higher BF% than what I’ve seen suggested as ideal (which will increase your chances of problems)

Please do follow my progress! I plan to get more pics up soon, trying to add every 2 weeks.

Another quick question: how are you injecting HcG ? IM or SubQ?

**Chark** · 01-20-2020, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by andrea311

Another quick question: how are you injecting HcG? IM or SubQ?

Always SubQ with insulin pins

**i_SLAM_cougars** · 01-20-2020, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by andrea311

Another quick question: how are you injecting HcG? IM or SubQ?

IM with a 1/2” slin pin

**andrea311** · 01-20-2020, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars

IM with a 1/2” slin pin

Together with test same injection or a separate one?

**i_SLAM_cougars** · 01-20-2020, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by andrea311

Together with test same injection or a separate one?

You can do it together if you can measure it out. I always do mine separate. Most of my injections are done with a 3cc syringe. Makes it kinda tricky to measure out 10ius

**Slick88** · 01-22-2020, 06:51 AM

Dumb question, but I have to ask.

The AI is listed as EOD... is that “every other day” or “end of day”... obviously a huge difference so I wanted to verify

**Chark** · 01-22-2020, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Slick88

Dumb question, but I have to ask.

The AI is listed as EOD... is that “every other day” or “end of day”... obviously a huge difference so I wanted to verify

every other day

**T.W** · 01-22-2020, 06:37 PM

Learning more everyday. Thanks guys

**BuzzardMarinePumper** · 01-24-2020, 01:02 PM

I am just an old guy that continues to try to learn everyday . I do think it is sad though when youths that no matter how much they have read do not have more respect for experienced men 20 years their senior . The tone and delivery of the book learned boys over the life lived experience of real men amazes me and reinforces immaturity . I have been a member since 2012 when one of these rude youths was only 11 years old .

Goes right back to the way they were raised and what life will teach them . I am not a knowledgeable member as they are tagged , but I do know that all men and boys are different ! All compounds affect different people in different ways and as we age the same compounds that worked amazingly well in our 30 are almost poison when we get in our 50's not to mention 60's .

This thread was created by a very smart man and has served many very well . I started using gear in the 1979 when most of these people posting even the smart guys were not even a wet spot running down their mamma ass ! In the 70's and 80's excess was best from gear to eating and as stated earlier things especially nutrition changes so very much over a 5 year period ........ Said all that to say this .

I know from experience it is better to keep your thoughts to yourself and people wonder if you are a DA than to spew them on this forum and all the guys here WITH KNOWLEDGE know and show that you are a DA !

Things change but to my knowledge no one on this forum has the intent to pass out bad info ! So just possibly in the future and even this thread it would be wise to show respect especially where respect has been earned and approach things with an open mind and agree that everything is changing in this forum and in this hobby , lifestyle , way of life . We are supposed to be assisting one another not try to prove who has the biggest dick or who can be the biggest dick .

60 years old and still learning

**andrea311** · 01-28-2020, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Chark

Always SubQ with insulin pins

Bought my HCG and I was sure I also needed to buy the bacteriostatic water in order to reconstitute it. And so I did. Well it turns out this brand (I don't think I can write the name) comes with a little vial of bacteriostatic water... Funniest thing is the store where I bought the test didn't have the water in stock so I bought the water from another store and ended up paying 50 bucks just for the f******g water + shipping! LOL
We all learn from our mistakes I guess

**BuzzardMarinePumper** · 01-28-2020, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by andrea311

Bought my HCG and I was sure I also needed to buy the bacteriostatic water in order to reconstitute it. And so I did. Well it turns out this brand (I don't think I can write the name) comes with a little vial of bacteriostatic water... Funniest thing is the store where I bought the test didn't have the water in stock so I bought the water from another store and ended up paying 50 bucks just for the f******g water + shipping! LOL
We all learn from our mistakes I guess

Yeah I would say so 30ml should be no more than max $10.00 and Hcg for 10,000 iu's $45.00 . That is a lot to get ripped off for Bac water and did they send you 10ml of Bac water or sterile water ?

**andrea311** · 01-28-2020, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by BuzzardMarinePumper

Yeah I would say so 30ml should be no more than max $10.00 and Hcg for 10,000 iu's $45.00 . That is a lot to get ripped off for Bac water and did they send you 10ml of Bac water or sterile water ?

So, the HCG is 5,000 iu and the vial of water is the same size so I would guess it's 5ml (no label on the vial). And again, since there's nothing written on it I have no idea whether it's bac water or sterile water. Do you think I can write the brand so that maybe someone can help me understand?