My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

[probuild42]

Great post Austinite!! You helped point me in the right direction when I first came here, thanks. Wish this would have been the first post I read!! Would have cut done on my research on what to research. lol

[marcus300]

Ive stickied this thread

[basketballfan22]

Congrats on the sticky. Well deserved. Your other ones need to be stickied too!

[Iron Mind]

Indeed a very helpful post.

Test only seems a good way to start. Some say that if you're planning to start with AAS. Just start "good", especially if someone is planning to start competitions (I'd like to start competitions for example). But 500mg/week is of course way more test in comparison than my own natural test levels, so test only would be very good to start of course..

[AD]

The cranial nerve 2 is the issue where the messages between the brain and retina are affected, but that has only been an issue with men who've suffered multiple heart attacks and obviously would have heart disease. Incredibly uncommon, even in men with heart disease. Also applies for PDE5 inhibitors.

i haven't been able to find a definite reason why/how clomid causes visual disturbances. it is frequently listed as a common side effect in the product package information.

some info i found seems to say that visual disturbances tend to be mild and temporary: An investigation of the visual disturbances ex... [Fertil Steril. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

while others reported severe and permanent damage: Visual disturbance secondary to clomiphene c... [Arch Ophthalmol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI

one possible explanation for the vision side effect of clomid is that clomid may affect blood circulation to the eye, both arterial: Optic neuropathy associated with clomiphene ci... [Fertil Steril. 1994] - PubMed - NCBI

and venous: Central retinal vein occlusion associated with... [Fertil Steril. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI

one consolation is that this side effect does not affect everyone. Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-te... [BJU Int. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

but once you experience any visual changes, stop clomid immediately and see an Ophthalmologist.

[austinite]

^ thanks, Nice set of studies there. and I agree. any signs of vision issues, discontinue use and seek help.

* going through studies...

[teezer33]

I hope people do read this, it would cut down on a lot of stupid questions. Great job !!!!

[AD]

when can the 2 out-dated stickies about beginners/newbie cycles in the Educational section be removed?

[JimAdler]

Awesome thread and I agree it should be a must for all who register. Thank you. and Killing 200 Kittens????? THat is just heartless >(

[Giftedathlete]

Hey austinite this was an amazing piece of info! I literally joined today and was hoping to find something straight to the point like this. All I have is one question and it may sound stupid because I read one of your replies to someone saying something like make sure you have a legit source. I've never taken steroids let alone purchased them. So my question is (I know you can't give out sources) but how would I know if the source is legit or not?? I've googled it plenty of times and have never really found a place that seemed legit. Thanks.

[Megalodon6]

Awesome post. Killing 200 kittens lolz

[Capebuffalo]

Hey austinite this was an amazing piece of info! I literally joined today and was hoping to find something straight to the point like this. All I have is one question and it may sound stupid because I read one of your replies to someone saying something like make sure you have a legit source. I've never taken steroids let alone purchased them. So my question is (I know you can't give out sources) but how would I know if the source is legit or not?? I've googled it plenty of times and have never really found a place that seemed legit. Thanks.

Once you get 50 post you can pm. Find a source and research it. See what feed back there is out there. Then pick one or two. There are some vets here that will do a source check. Be respectful and polite when asking. Some will not. I will not. But some will. Pm them and ask.

[austinite]

^ thanks, Cape.

[CJ1776]

Thanks for the info..

I do have a few questions,.. hopefully someone can help:

Hey Everyone:

I am 45 yrs and started with Test (sus) 1cc/ml and in same stick using Tren at .5cc/ml.... twice per week (started last week)

Second week on.

After my workout partner and I both did same and Pinned ourselves in the Quad Muscle; within 2 days we both developed pain and some muscle swelling below where we Pinned just above the knee in The muscle. Felt like our muscle was swelling and sore (as if it had been worked out). We did not do any leg work out yet.

Next time we did other Quad with same amounts and this time it was severely worse. So the 3rd time we did it back in the same leg as the 1st time. My workout partner is experiencing some pain today (stuck yesterday). I am doing fine now but starting to fell some slight pain.

Okay, so with that info,... what is going on?... Is this normal?
We where worried about moving to the arms or buttock to Stick yet.....
I did Test (Sus) only (1 cycle) 12 years ago with no pain or problems, but only Pinned in my Buttock.


Also, should we be using the same needle to stack Test (Sus) and the Tren?... this is drawn at same time I mean.. it mixes

Any recommendations and knowledge will be extremely helpful.



Also, what are the storage requirements after opening the Bottle... Refrigerate or room temperature?

BTW... I have gained 10 pounds in 1.5 weeks already in muscle.... pretty dang amazing !!! I am 2 pounds from the heaviest I been and that was from 12 years ago at the end of my 1st and only cycle of Test (sus)... nothing else


Thanks,
CJ

[austinite]

Hey CJ, this is not really related to this topic, might have been better to start a new thread, but I will provide an answer for you.

First, CC's don't tell us anything about your dose. Sustanon and Trenbolone come in various concentrations. We would need the milligrams. (Not that it matters to make an assessment here), just for future reference.

The Propionate ester in Sustanon tends to sting a little more than the rest of the esters. Same with Trenbolone acetate vs. Trenbolone enanthate for some folks. However, the biggest culprit for post injection discomfort is poor injection technique. This is due to 2 things:

1. Injecting too fast.
2. Unsteady hand while injecting.

Injecting too fast will cause the fibers to spread rapidly and irritate the spot. Keep a steady, slow pace when injecting. I recommend that you stop and pause for a couple seconds once or twice during the injection.

Remember the tip of the needle is like a blade. Too much movement and you're cutting up muscle tissue beyond necessity. Muscles don't like that and they react and become inflamed. This generally goes away between 3 to 5 days. If it doesn't go away, and you develop a red hardened spot that will not go away, see a doctor to check for an infection.

Lastly, I hate to rain on your parade, but you did not gain 10 lbs of muscle in 1.5 weeks. This is physically impossible. Not even in 10 weeks is it possible. What you've gained is a combination of water and fat. Very little to no muscle has developed in 1.5 weeks. I recommend dexa scans or bod pod assessments to gauge your lean body mass and keep track. Please read the last segment in this thread about expectations.

Best of luck to you and your buddy.

[DVD_Administrator]

Really Wonderful I will add this thread to favorites

[Wizwell]

An absolutely excellent read. Kudos! Thanks for taking the time to produce it.

[CJ1776]

Hey CJ, this is not really related to this topic, might have been better to start a new thread, but I will provide an answer for you.

First, CC's don't tell us anything about your dose. Sustanon and Trenbolone come in various concentrations. We would need the milligrams. (Not that it matters to make an assessment here), just for future reference.

The Propionate ester in Sustanon tends to sting a little more than the rest of the esters. Same with Trenbolone acetate vs. Trenbolone enanthate for some folks. However, the biggest culprit for post injection discomfort is poor injection technique. This is due to 2 things:

1. Injecting too fast.
2. Unsteady hand while injecting.

Injecting too fast will cause the fibers to spread rapidly and irritate the spot. Keep a steady, slow pace when injecting. I recommend that you stop and pause for a couple seconds once or twice during the injection.

Remember the tip of the needle is like a blade. Too much movement and you're cutting up muscle tissue beyond necessity. Muscles don't like that and they react and become inflamed. This generally goes away between 3 to 5 days. If it doesn't go away, and you develop a red hardened spot that will not go away, see a doctor to check for an infection.

Lastly, I hate to rain on your parade, but you did not gain 10 lbs of muscle in 1.5 weeks. This is physically impossible. Not even in 10 weeks is it possible. What you've gained is a combination of water and fat. Very little to no muscle has developed in 1.5 weeks. I recommend dexa scans or bod pod assessments to gauge your lean body mass and keep track. Please read the last segment in this thread about expectations.

Best of luck to you and your buddy.

Thanks a million,.. I appreciate your help.
One thing thou, we don't get sore or inflamed where we stick,.. it tracks the entire Quad now as if its really really really sore from work out or like someone beat us in the leg specific to the entire Quad.

Someone said that could be virgin muscle because we are new.

Thanks for the pointer on the needle and movement,.. we need to do better there.

I did ready your Post,.. Very interesting.. great post, .. I will look for a Dexa Scan location or bod pod.


Thanks Again,
CJ

[austinite]

^ There is no such thing as virgin muscle. It's possible that the oil didn't get deep into the muscle, at which point it can leak through the leg over the sheath. Try a spot farther away from the knee. Or, if quads are giving you trouble, don't use them at all. Try glutes and delts.

[trigger happy]

Thank you very much for taking the time to write this backs up the months of research i have done and confirms it with some added bonus info. Very greatfull. Now to get my 50 posts up so i can verify my pct source

[austinite]

Thank you very much for taking the time to write this backs up the months of research i have done and confirms it with some added bonus info. Very greatfull. Now to get my 50 posts up so i can verify my pct source

Thank you. Very nice of you to say. Glad you can make use of it.

[Brazensol]

Great post! My second thought was how did I miss this for so long? Then I realized it is a recent addition to the stickies so now I don't feel so bad.

Could you clear something up for us older guys who are on trt? PCT is not required, correct?

Also, besides volume of injectable, is there any scientific reason a first cycle of say, test cyp, could not be injected subq? The main reason I ask is aromatization seems to be much less with subq vs IM. Also seems it would eliminate the pain many people get after injecting IM. If no one has ever done it I might be willing to be the first unless it is just a really bad idea...

[austinite]

Great post! My second thought was how did I miss this for so long? Then I realized it is a recent addition to the stickies so now I don't feel so bad.

Could you clear something up for us older guys who are on trt? PCT is not required, correct?

Also, besides volume of injectable, is there any scientific reason a first cycle of say, test cyp, could not be injected subq? The main reason I ask is aromatization seems to be much less with subq vs IM. Also seems it would eliminate the pain many people get after injecting IM. If no one has ever done it I might be willing to be the first unless it is just a really bad idea...

Correct. Any Testosterone therapy patient would simply return to his TRT protocol. No PCT required.

Other than volume, subQ would be fine. And yes, it would certainly have less of an impact on E2. But still should be monitored of course because of the quantity injected and the soon compounding effect.

[Brazensol]

Is there any rule of thumb or general guideline for the time it takes for the blood thickening (hematocrit) to start/occur. This is probably the one thing that worries me most about doing a cycle.

[austinite]

Is there any rule of thumb or general guideline for the time it takes for the blood thickening (hematocrit) to start/occur. This is probably the one thing that worries me most about doing a cycle.

No not really. Varies for everyone. Some folks can inject 200mg a week for TRT and never really have issues. Others, like me, my hematocrit goes up when testosterone is in the same room as I am. lol. But we can make our own general rule here... If you donate as often as a donation center will let you, you shouldn't ever have issues. That will depend on the center and can be anywhere from 2 to 3 months.

[Bodacious]

Great read Austinite. I don't post much. I read a lot in the nutrition section. I have thought about doing my first cycle. So I have been reading over here. When I first join this forum I thought I was ready. Well that's been over two years ago I would say.After reading I was no where close. Since then I have lost 35-40lbs. just by reading on here. I have read a lot of your post. 405 and GBrice. I just never really post much. But look every night and read. Lol.

Well now my question is when do you know if your ready? For your first cycle?

Also just by taking test what should some expect?
Thanks for the help.

[austinite]

Great read Austinite. I don't post much. I read a lot in the nutrition section. I have thought about doing my first cycle. So I have been reading over here. When I first join this forum I thought I was ready. Well that's been over two years ago I would say.After reading I was no where close. Since then I have lost 35-40lbs. just by reading on here. I have read a lot of your post. 405 and GBrice. I just never really post much. But look every night and read. Lol.

Well now my question is when do you know if your ready? For your first cycle?

Also just by taking test what should some expect?
Thanks for the help.

Hey bodacious. Not really sure how to answer without copying some parts in the article, lol The entire article is wrapped around the idea of "When will I be ready?". Also the last segment is dedicated to "expectations" from a test only cycle.

If there is a specific question that you have that I am misunderstanding, please let me know. I'd be more than happy to go into detail.

[Bodacious]

Lol. I guess what I should have asked is... I know your not going to gain 15 lbs of muscle. But in someone's first cycle with a pretty decent diet not perfect and working out 5 -6 days a week. After your PCT how much muscle do you keep. I am sure everyone is different but just an est.

[austinite]

If you run your 12 week cycle, assuming your diet is in check and on point, you should be very proud of yourself if you managed to attain 5 to 6 lbs of solid muscle.

[Brazensol]

No not really. Varies for everyone. Some folks can inject 200mg a week for TRT and never really have issues. Others, like me, my hematocrit goes up when testosterone is in the same room as I am. lol. But we can make our own general rule here... If you donate as often as a donation center will let you, you shouldn't ever have issues. That will depend on the center and can be anywhere from 2 to 3 months.

That is very good info to have. I will schedule regular blood donations from here on out. That is a win/win situation for everyone.

[Brazensol]

Is water retention true for all the various aas or are some more prone than others? I really hate that bloated puffed up feeling (say, I better get my e2 levels checked!!). Even now with fairly low body fat I have some days where I just feel, dare I say it, fat. It just feels... bad. I'm guessing testosterone is one of the worst ones...

[austinite]

Is water retention true for all the various aas or are some more prone than others? I really hate that bloated puffed up feeling (say, I better get my e2 levels checked!!). Even now with fairly low body fat I have some days where I just feel, dare I say it, fat. It just feels... bad. I'm guessing testosterone is one of the worst ones...

Yes. Water retention is inevitable in most cases. Some compounds can aid in more retention. But with your estradiol in check, and your diet, you shouldn't have any issues. Bloat is pretty easy to control. Orals like Dianabol are far worse than testosterone . Almost every single problem/side effect has one thing in common: E2 control as first line of defense.

[Brazensol]

I've often read 15% or less bf is the "magic" number for cycling. You recommend 16% as a minimum. No problem there. Is the 15%-16% bf stricly related to reduced side affects or does it also help to build lbm while on cycle? If I cycle at 10% can I expect better gains and reduced sides than 15% or is it just side affect related?

[Brazensol]

Yes. Water retention is inevitable in most cases. Some compounds can aid in more retention. But with your estradiol in check, and your diet, you shouldn't have any issues. Bloat is pretty easy to control. Orals like Dianabol are far worse than testosterone. Almost every single problem/side effect has one thing in common: E2 control as first line of defense.

I don't see oral aas in my future... I like my liver just fine the way it is!

[austinite]

I don't see oral aas in my future... I like my liver just fine the way it is!

I bet you see Deca That will bloat you some.

[austinite]

I've often read 15% or less bf is the "magic" number for cycling. You recommend 16% as a minimum. No problem there. Is the 15%-16% bf stricly related to reduced side affects or does it also help to build lbm while on cycle? If I cycle at 10% can I expect better gains and reduced sides than 15% or is it just side affect related?

The more fat we carry, the more aromatase enzymes we carry. So that generally proves estrogen management to be cumbersome. Not to mention blood pressure issues.

Cycling at lower body fat will not produce more muscle gains, it will however, be much much more visible and satisfactory. In some cases, folks that are at 20%+ and cycle, they end up looking fat and not muscular at all. Then they are working at shedding the fat they gained to show the few pounds of muscle, but end up burning muscle in the process. Too many people make the mistake of cycling at high BF and end up disappointed in their appearance, time wasted and money lost. I've done it myself. That's how I once developed gynecomastia , because I thought my AI dose wouldn't have to change. And I was quite disappointed.

[Brazensol]

I bet you see Deca That will bloat you some.

Forgot all about that one. Your memory is better than mine. My shoulders will no doubt love deca.

[Bodacious]

Great thread. Also great questions Brszensol. Austin ITE knows her Ship. Wish I knew was she forgot.

Say I was to do a cycle of test. Would my workout change any or keep doing what I am doing. This is getting off topic some I might pm you and ask questions if u don't mind Lol

[Brazensol]

Great thread. Also great questions Brszensol. Austin ITE knows her Ship. Wish I knew was she forgot.

Say I was to do a cycle of test. Would my workout change any or keep doing what I am doing. This is getting off topic some I might pm you and ask questions if u don't mind Lol

I'm pretty sure she's a he... lol. As for your workout question just start a new thread. After you do your diligent research of course. lol.

[austinite]

Training doesn't have to change. You would simply lift heavier as you grow stronger. It doesn't hurt to change up your schedule a little, maybe switch training days around but if you've been training and it was working, continue doing so and let your cycle amplify the effects.

There is a linked thread in the training segment of this article to Marcus' Workout diary, which contains a wealth of info.