Starting my first cycle.

[VzThunder]

Hey guys whats up, thanks for reading!

Okay so basically I am about to start my first cycle, I have been training and properly dieting for 2 and a half years now, I started off 5'10 @ 194lbs, I am now 5'10 @ 177lbs.

I am just going to use test-e for my first cycle, my diet is pretty much on key, what would you guys recommend as far as dosages go for a first cycle on test? I am thinking 600mg p/week split into 2 x 300mg shots a week. I will be also taking Aromasin and HCG during cycle to avoid side effects and HCG, Clomid, Aromasin, Vitamin C and Creatine for my PCT.

Here is a quick photo for you guys to see where I am starting and if possible could I get a few BF % estimates? I am thinking somewhere around 16% mark.

Thanks again!

[songdog]

Test 500mg a week for 10 weeks.Ai plus HCG 2x week250 IUs.Pct nova and clomid.Read the pct section for doses.And before you start.Hit the diet section and post your diet.They will help you get MAX results.You only have 1 st cycle.So DONT MESS IT UP by a BAD DIET it happens a lot.

[Bio-Active]

Run the aromasin at 12.5 mg ed and adjust if needed right up to pct

[VzThunder]

Thanks guys, would you say my starting point is good enough for good results?

I feel I am in a decent enough shape to start now and hopefully put on some nice LBM.

Would aromasin or arimidex be better for the estrogen control?

I will head over to the nutrition section and get a good diet sorted out to optimize my results too.

Thanks again!

[Bio-Active]

There are pros and cons to either compound. It boils down to a matter of preference. If your nutrition and training are on spot you will gain.

[VzThunder]

There are pros and cons to either compound. It boils down to a matter of preference

Oh okay great I have arimidex on hand that I will use for now, still keep it at 12.5mg ed?

[OnTheSauce]

I really think you should spend some time building mass before using. Seems you have just spent time cutting 20lbs. At your size now, you still don't have much muscle mass. You aren't fat, but I don't think you have much of a base setup

[ppwc1985]

By your picture I'm gonna have to agree with last post. Good luck either way.

[ppwc1985]

The little mass you will put on if you don't hurt yourself(joints,tendons) and do on if you don't keep training and eating will be gone in two months. You can put on an easy 20 lbs Lbm just by training hard and eating properly. Steroids ain't magic.

[VzThunder]

I really think you should spend some time building mass before using. Seems you have just spent time cutting 20lbs. At your size now, you still don't have much muscle mass. You aren't fat, but I don't think you have much of a base setup

I understand your point of view and appreciate it and I've spent 2 years naturally training hard, 4-6 times a week mainly cutting, my lifts have all gone up dramatically and I can see I am starting to put on size and now I just feel like I am hopefully ready to see some benefits from the juice combined with my hard work.

I have seen a lot of people in a lot worse shape than me see great results with out even having proper training / diet setups, I just feel like I will see great improvements over the next 12 weeks if I train hard, eat properly and use the gear.

Thanks for your opinion though, I appreciate it.

[Bio-Active]

I understand your point of view and appreciate it and I've spent 2 years naturally training hard, 4-6 times a week mainly cutting, my lifts have all gone up dramatically and I can see I am starting to put on size and now I just feel like I am hopefully ready to see some benefits from the juice combined with my hard work.

I have seen a lot of people in a lot worse shape than me see great results with out even having proper training / diet setups, I just feel like I will see great improvements over the next 12 weeks if I train hard, eat properly and use the gear.

Thanks for your opinion though, I appreciate it.

I think you should be eating properly anyway.

[VzThunder]

The little mass you will put on if you don't hurt yourself(joints,tendons) and do on if you don't keep training and eating will be gone in two months. You can put on an easy 20 lbs Lbm just by training hard and eating properly. Steroids ain't magic.

I won't stop training / eating properly anytime soon at all.

Why do you say I will put on little mass from the roids?

Thanks mate.

[VzThunder]

I think you should be eating properly anyway.

I do eat properly, I have been eating properly for over 2 years now.

[Bio-Active]

I do eat properly, I have been eating properly for over 2 years now.

What does your nutrition plan look like?

[ppwc1985]

Vz I'm not trying to be mean or anything, if your not eating right and eating alot you will not put on much size. I'm only going by the picture you posted, IMO if you been seriously hitting the weights and eating right you should be way farther ahead than in your picture. Just remember, steroids will give you some good strength and if your tendons and ligaments ain't prepared you can injure yourself. If I was you, I would keep eating and training naturally for a while longer. But your a grown man so do what you will, I'm only trying to help you.

[VzThunder]

I follow this template everyday, with varying foods still providing the correct nutrition:

Breakfast - About 15% Of Total Caloric Intake:
1/3 of starchy carbohydrates (oatmeal, whole wheat bread, etc.)
2/3 of protein (eggs, milk, lean meat)
Small portion (1 spoonful) of good fats (fish oil, olive oil, nuts, etc.)
Your choice of fruits & or vegetables from the list
Water or Green Tea

All Other Pre Workout Meals & After 4-6 Hours After Workout:
1/3 of starchy vegetables and/or fruits (greens, sweet potato, salad, etc.)
2/3 of lean protein
Small portion of good fats
Any of the listed fruits & vegetables
Water or Green Tea to drink

Pre-Workout Nutrition (Optional, But Ideal)
30-40 grams of fast absorbing carbohydrates (sucrose, dextrose, or maltodextrin)
5-15 grams of whey or BCAA powder

Post-Workout Nutrition (Get As Soon As Possible)
20-40 grams of whey protein
40-80 grams of fast absorbing carbohydrates (sucrose, dextrose, or maltodextrin)
1-2 grams of BCAA's
1-2 grams of glutamine

1-2 Hours After Workout:
1/2 of starchy carbs (Whole grains, pasta, whole grain bread, oats, baked potatoes, etc.)
1/2 of lean protein (Egg whites, tuna, other fish, lean red meat, skim milk, etc.)
Minimal fats
Any Fruits & Vegetables from the list
Water or green tea to drink

3-4 Hours After Workout:
1/2 of starchy carbs (Whole grains, pasta, whole grain bread, oats, baked potatoes, etc.)
1/2 of lean protein (Egg whites, tuna, other fish, lean red meat, skim milk, etc.)
Small serving of extra good fat
Any Fruits & Vegetables from the list
Water or green tea to drink

4-6 Hours After Workout:
1/3 of starchy carbs (Whole grains, pasta, whole grain bread, oats, baked potatoes, etc.)
2/3 of lean protein (Egg whites, tuna, other fish, lean red meat, skim milk, etc.)
Small serving of extra good fats

Pre-Bed Meal:
1 cup of skim milk
1/2 scoop of whey protein
1/2 scoop of casein protein OR
2 cups skim milk + 1/2 scoop whey

[VzThunder]

Vz I'm not trying to be mean or anything, if your not eating right and eating alot you will not put on much size. I'm only going by the picture you posted, IMO if you been seriously hitting the weights and eating right you should be way farther ahead than in your picture. Just remember, steroids will give you some good strength and if your tendons and ligaments ain't prepared you can injure yourself. If I was you, I would keep eating and training naturally for a while longer. But your a grown man so do what you will, I'm only trying to help you.

I completely understand what you're saying.

I posted on here to receive these kind of posts / advice and I thank you for spending your time giving me your advice.

I am not in a rush to go ahead and dive into the gear, maybe I will wait another 6 months or so and see how it goes from there.

[Bio-Active]

I follow this template everyday, with varying foods still providing the correct nutrition:

Breakfast - About 15% Of Total Caloric Intake:
1/3 of starchy carbohydrates (oatmeal, whole wheat bread, etc.)
2/3 of protein (eggs, milk, lean meat)
Small portion (1 spoonful) of good fats (fish oil, olive oil, nuts, etc.)
Your choice of fruits & or vegetables from the list
Water or Green Tea

All Other Pre Workout Meals & After 4-6 Hours After Workout:
1/3 of starchy vegetables and/or fruits (greens, sweet potato, salad, etc.)
2/3 of lean protein
Small portion of good fats
Any of the listed fruits & vegetables
Water or Green Tea to drink

Pre-Workout Nutrition (Optional, But Ideal)
30-40 grams of fast absorbing carbohydrates (sucrose, dextrose, or maltodextrin)
5-15 grams of whey or BCAA powder

Post-Workout Nutrition (Get As Soon As Possible)
20-40 grams of whey protein
40-80 grams of fast absorbing carbohydrates (sucrose, dextrose, or maltodextrin)
1-2 grams of BCAA's
1-2 grams of glutamine

1-2 Hours After Workout:
1/2 of starchy carbs (Whole grains, pasta, whole grain bread, oats, baked potatoes, etc.)
1/2 of lean protein (Egg whites, tuna, other fish, lean red meat, skim milk, etc.)
Minimal fats
Any Fruits & Vegetables from the list
Water or green tea to drink

3-4 Hours After Workout:
1/2 of starchy carbs (Whole grains, pasta, whole grain bread, oats, baked potatoes, etc.)
1/2 of lean protein (Egg whites, tuna, other fish, lean red meat, skim milk, etc.)
Small serving of extra good fat
Any Fruits & Vegetables from the list
Water or green tea to drink

4-6 Hours After Workout:
1/3 of starchy carbs (Whole grains, pasta, whole grain bread, oats, baked potatoes, etc.)
2/3 of lean protein (Egg whites, tuna, other fish, lean red meat, skim milk, etc.)
Small serving of extra good fats

Pre-Bed Meal:
1 cup of skim milk
1/2 scoop of whey protein
1/2 scoop of casein protein OR
2 cups skim milk + 1/2 scoop whey

Can you post up the macros with this?

[VzThunder]

Well I take 1g protein p/lb of my bodyweight daily, I try make up 60-70% of my daily calories from both carbs + good fats.

Fat sources are things like fish oil, flax seeds + oil, nuts and fish and carbs I get mainly from grains, oats and whole grain pastas.

I know my diet isn't 100% perfect but I feel like it is still ample for my needs.

[OnTheSauce]

You honestly think you look like you have been training and eating right for 2 yrs?

[VzThunder]

You honestly think you look like you have been training and eating right for 2 yrs?

As far as eating right goes, this diet now has only been for the last 3 months, before that I was just eating clean.

And training has been two years, yes.

If you seen how I looked before you would not be surprised.

For the first 18 months I was only going to gym 2-3 times a week sometimes even less, over the last 6 months I have gone 5-6 times every week and have lost 15lbs whilst building muscle.

There is no point in me lying, I am coming here for genuine advice and will take in everything you guys tell me.

Thanks for spending your time on me.

[Bio-Active]

The point here is you can still make some major progress with nutrition and dedication to the gym. You will be robbing yourself out of future gains and shutting down your endocrine system for no reason. I suggest you hit the nutrition forum and get your food dialed in. Train correctly for another couple years before jumping on the sauce

[OnTheSauce]

The point here is you can still make some major progress with nutrition and dedication to the gym. You will be robbing yourself out of future gains and shutting down your endocrine system for no reason. I suggest you hit the nutrition forum and get your food dialed in. Train correctly for another couple years before jumping on the sauce

Which is what I was saying as well. He's not hearing what he wants so he is arguing.

[VzThunder]

I am not arguing whatsoever, I understand where you guys are coming from and I will take your advice and hold off from it.

The reason I posted here was to get opinions and advice and you guys definitely helped me out.

I will keep working hard and eventually once I have reached better shape I will then look into this route again.

Thanks a bunch for the help guys, I will stay off the gear for now!

[ppwc1985]

Vz, you came to the right place. We don't give out unsafe advice here. This is the best forums out here. Hit up the nutrition section they will help you pack on some good mass. Also check out Marcus's diary and learn the best way to put on mass with high Intensity workouts, trust me you won't regret waiting for another year.

[OnTheSauce]

My biggest regret is starting too early. I was 178lbs at 10%. I could've gone so much further natty

[VzThunder]

I understand guys, like I said thanks for the advice, I will wait atleast another year and see how it all goes.

How tall are you OnTheSauce?

[Bio-Active]

I understand guys, like I said thanks for the advice, I will wait atleast another year and see how it all goes.

How tall are you OnTheSauce?

Good choice... Consider the nutrition forum helping you with a lean bulk

[JAB1]

Op you have a good attitude and its obvious you have done your research. Keep at it and you'll be ready in the future, no rush, you're on the right track.

[VzThunder]

Thanks again guys, like I said I am always willing to take advice from people more educated than me and I am in no rush and don't want to do something I will regret later. I will go get a diet sorted for a lean bulk and consider my options again in 12 months or so, I really appreciate the help guys thanks a bunch!