Test Enth/Deca/Winny

**seriouslifter** · 08-30-2013, 01:49 PM

I think this will be my 7th cycle. i need to cut some more before i start to lean bulk on this cycle. im 5'11 and 218, but prob have 15lbs of fat. i wanna cut for a month hard and get leaner and then start. anyone done this cycle? i want quality mass and strength, which depends on diet.

wk 1-14 enth 500mg
wk 1-12 deca 400mg
week 6-12 winny 50mg

standard pct protocol with nolv/clomid. Might do HCG throughout cycle 2x a week 250iu. keep prami on hand. start pct 2 weeks after last shot. Also armidex .5mg EOD.

**austinite** · 08-30-2013, 01:50 PM

Under 7 % body fat? You sure you got that right?

**seriouslifter** · 08-30-2013, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

Under 7 % body fat? You sure you got that right?

im no where near 7%. im prob 16 -18%. Is pointless to start it with higher bf?

**austinite** · 08-30-2013, 02:15 PM

Gotchya. Then you actually have alot more than 15 lbs of fat

16 is fine, 18... not so much.

**seriouslifter** · 08-31-2013, 08:05 AM

do i really need HCG if not available? who has done this cycle? do i really need the winny in there?

**seriouslifter** · 09-01-2013, 08:28 AM

bumppp

**tgunn** · 09-01-2013, 08:48 AM

The cycle looks good other than if it was me id run it longer. . 14 weeks min on the deca (for me it didn't get fun till about week 5) running the test 2 weeks longer is smart.

Hcg throughout the cycle up intill pct is a must imo.. especially with deca.

I'd do a pretty aggressive pct too.

**fit2bOld** · 09-01-2013, 10:09 AM

How about some real stats other than weight/ height

**seriouslifter** · 09-01-2013, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by tgunn

The cycle looks good other than if it was me id run it longer. . 14 weeks min on the deca (for me it didn't get fun till about week 5) running the test 2 weeks longer is smart.

Hcg throughout the cycle up intill pct is a must imo.. especially with deca.

I'd do a pretty aggressive pct too.

so 16 weeks of test and 14 weeks of deca? if it doesnt get fun until week 5, then whats the point of the wasted 5 first weeks? why dont people just do short esters if weeks arent really wasted? so if im doing 16 weeks of test i must have HCG throughout since it shut me down hard such a long cycle.

**tgunn** · 09-01-2013, 01:46 PM

Yes. And I wouldn't say the first 5 weeks is necessarily" waisted" my friend... its just the long easter that takes some time to kick in.

You say this is your 7th cycle right? You should be pretty knowledgeable in this shit by now.. what, were you just winging it?

Why don't you post some stats and let these guys help you? I just like to post my experiences at times; maybe it helps, maybe not.

And hcg should be ran regardless, wish I would have ran it with all my cycles.

And why winny in a bulking cycle?

**seriouslifter** · 09-01-2013, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by tgunn

Yes. And I wouldn't say the first 5 weeks is necessarily" waisted" my friend... its just the long easter that takes some time to kick in.

You say this is your 7th cycle right? You should be pretty knowledgeable in this shit by now.. what, were you just winging it?

Why don't you post some stats and let these guys help you? I just like to post my experiences at times; maybe it helps, maybe not.

And hcg should be ran regardless, wish I would have ran it with all my cycles.

And why winny in a bulking cycle?

yes i know what im doing, just getting different opinions. i def research, but like to clarify also. my last cycle was prop/tren with hcg for 8 weeks. I dont even really think HCG did anything. I did feel a little better during PCT than last time without running it. I thought winny would be good for quality gains, not like bloat and water weight like dbol . Is it pointless? I havent ran orals in awhile and thought i throw that in last 4-6 weeks. Waste? Cant winny be used for cutting and bulking depending on diet? im 5'11 217 right now. i prob have to lose atleast 10lbs of fat. im gonng cut sept 1-oct 1 and then go on.

**tgunn** · 09-01-2013, 02:46 PM

In my opinion winny is the most overrated compound out there.. will it dry you out a little?? Maybe. Hardnees?? Some, maybe. But not enough to warrant the cost and price your liver pays. And you have to be lean to notice it. . I've never heard of guys "bulking" off winny.

Imo, running the proper ai and diet will do the trick.

**seriouslifter** · 09-01-2013, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by tgunn

In my opinion winny is the most overrated compound out there.. will it dry you out a little?? Maybe. Hardnees?? Some, maybe. But not enough to warrant the cost and price your liver pays. And you have to be lean to notice it. . I've never heard of guys "bulking" off winny.

Imo, running the proper ai and diet will do the trick.

should i do tbol instead? what about anavar ? well anavar would be in the same boat as winny.

**tgunn** · 09-01-2013, 05:59 PM

Nah, winstrol and anavar are substantially different..
The tbol would be a good start though.

I would do:
Week 1-6 20-40mg tbol
Week 1-16 500mg test e
Week 1-14 400mg deca

.25mg adex eod (adjust as needed)
250iu hcg x2 ew up till pct

Id do an aggressive pct with deca, but that's just me. Others may say it's not needed.

Something like:
Clomid 100/100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20/20/20/20

**tgunn** · 09-01-2013, 06:02 PM

Also, with any oral you should run tudca @ 250mg and nac @ 500-600mg for liver protection.

**seriouslifter** · 09-01-2013, 06:49 PM

Are tbol gains compared to dbol , which just a kick starter and you wont keep any of those gains? I was reading 20-40mg of tbol is too low. Atleast 50. People take 60-80mg.

**tgunn** · 09-01-2013, 08:06 PM

Not at all compared to dbol . . Slow, steady somewhat dry gains as opposed to the water weight of dbol/drol ect..

I would keep the dose at around 40mgs. Honesty, im not a big fan of orals. Just dont like the extra stress on the liver, but tbol isnt as toxic as most the popular orals. Neither is var..

Which ever way you go, I wouldn't run it past 6 weeks or so.

**crazy mike** · 09-01-2013, 08:16 PM

My experience is running tbol at 80mgs to gat anything. Even 60mgs is low. Winstrol is not for bulking at all. I is a low anabolic . It is used when cutting for a show or just a hard vascular finished look. I use it when I'm not bulking and I want to get lean an stay hard, while I diet DOWN and train hard.

Definitely not for bulking. ...crazy mike

**tgunn** · 09-01-2013, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by crazy mike

My experience is running tbol at 80mgs to gat anything. Even 60mgs is low. Winstrol is not for bulking at all. I is a low anabolic . It is used when cutting for a show or just a hard vascular finished look. I use it when I'm not bulking and I want to get lean an stay hard, while I diet DOWN and train hard.

Definitely not for bulking. ...crazy mike

We are talking about tbol right? Even the bodybuilders I chat with on other sites use 40-60mgs ed but its usually ran 6-8 weeks. With good, noticeable results. From what they say anyway..

Maybe you didn't run it long enough? Or you were taking high doses of other compounds and the gains went unnoticed? Idk.. Maybe I'm wrong about the compound..?

**crazy mike** · 09-01-2013, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by tgunn

We are talking about tbol right? Even the bodybuilders I chat with on other sites use 40-60mgs ed but its usually ran 6-8 weeks. With good, noticeable results. From what they say anyway..

Maybe you didn't run it long enough? Or you were taking high doses of other compounds and the gains went unnoticed? Idk.. Maybe I'm wrong about the compound..?

Yes I am talking about tbol...tbol with a T. And I ran it for 8weeks. I am in tune with my body and it's reactions to steroids . I didn't care for it much. I would say that 60mgs might be good for some but I recommend 80mgs. We're all different. Remember I said "My experience with tbol..."

But we have no argument I would just do 60mgs min, min no matter what. Thanks. ..crazy mike

**tgunn** · 09-01-2013, 09:32 PM

Well, fair enough...

You've been in the game way longer than me! And one of the more knowledgeable guy's on here.. like you say, everyone reacts different to every compound.

Speaking of reacting to gear... the Masteron 's talking to me! Time to grab the wife and hit the bed!!

**seriouslifter** · 09-02-2013, 06:25 AM

okay im gonna do 16 weeks of enth, 14 weeks of deca and 6 weeks start of tbol. i want lean quality mass gains, which i know determines on a lean diet to not get bloated.

**tgunn** · 09-02-2013, 06:47 AM

Should be a pretty damn good cycle.. as long as your diet is in check. But it looks like you get that.

Just take your ai, hcg and run an aggressive pct and you should be g2g.

I'd get blood work about 6-8 weeks after pct to make sure your back to norm.

Good luck!

**seriouslifter** · 09-02-2013, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by tgunn

Should be a pretty damn good cycle.. as long as your diet is in check. But it looks like you get that.

Just take your ai, hcg and run an aggressive pct and you should be g2g.

I'd get blood work about 6-8 weeks after pct to make sure your back to norm.

Good luck!

Thank you!

**crazy mike** · 09-02-2013, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by seriouslifter

okay im gonna do 16 weeks of enth, 14 weeks of deca and 6 weeks start of tbol. i want lean quality mass gains, which i know determines on a lean diet to not get bloated.

Cool man. Just get the protocol right. ...crazy mike