Broscience?!

[0403555555]

Q. Why do people always say get a good base first?

If you are eating right, and making some small strength gains then what’s the need for a base?

The whole point of taking AAS is to add muscle, not wait 10 years until you have muscle base to then take it.

If your PCT is correct, you increase your maintenance calories and continue training as hard as possible, then theoretically you should retain quite a fair bit of muscle.


Q. Some people say that you will struggle to retain any gains past your natural limit, so in theory, if you have yet to hit your natural limit, retaining gains should be easier, yes?

Q. Why do they say you will lose all your gains when you stop using? What’s the point of using it? To break through your natural level, but why? You will never retain it.

Why it is a person can only cycle once? But will always return for that second or third cycle? If they have retained their muscle then why return? Muscle dysmorphia?

Just trying to clear up some bro-science.

Thanks guys.

[Bio-Active]

With out a good base your tendons are not as strong and you risk injury. Also without a good base how do you know your diet and training are really spot on?

[itsjayman02]

With out a good base your tendons are not as strong and you risk injury. Also without a good base how do you know your diet and training are really spot on?

Couldn't have put it better mate!!

[Bert]

If you stay natty for ten years and bust ass, then take aas, you will be much bigger then the guy who starts off using aas.

[Zodiac85]

I'll take a crack at answering each of your questions. This is based 100% on what I've learned through my research, so take it with a grain of salt and feel free to correct me.

Q. Why do people always say get a good base first?

If you are eating right, and making some small strength gains then what’s the need for a base?

The whole point of taking AAS is to add muscle, not wait 10 years until you have muscle base to then take it.

If your PCT is correct, you increase your maintenance calories and continue training as hard as possible, then theoretically you should retain quite a fair bit of muscle.

I have gone through the bulk and cut cycles several times now. Each time I learn more and more and get better and better at it. I'm now at the point where I question whether I should cycle now, or go through another bulk/cut and see if I can get more "dialed in" (yes, I'm sure I can). The short answer is that if you are not already very efficient and capable at bulking and cutting, you are not knowledgeable or disciplined enough to keep your aas gains. It's HARD to keep your gains. Easy come, easy go.

Q. Some people say that you will struggle to retain any gains past your natural limit, so in theory, if you have yet to hit your natural limit, retaining gains should be easier, yes?

Yeah, the farther away from optimal you are, the easier to keep your sub optimal gains. Although you could have gotten them safely and legally as well.

Q. Why do they say you will lose all your gains when you stop using? What’s the point of using it? To break through your natural level, but why? You will never retain it.

In my understanding, you can lose your gains for 2 reasons: the #1 reason is in my first answer. Cycling too soon before you have the knowledge, experience and discipline to keep them. The second reason is that yes, if you are far above your natural limit and stop cycling, you will begin to revert towards your natural limit. I don't know if you lose all the way back to your natural limit or if you can maintain above that.

Why it is a person can only cycle once? But will always return for that second or third cycle? If they have retained their muscle then why return? Muscle dysmorphia?

It's addicting. If you have exhausted your natural gains and cycle aas, suddenly you're able to make gains again after maybe months or years of hard work and discipline to improve. You will want that again. The challenge is to keep it under control and use reasonably. This forum is very helpful for that.

Just my 2 cents, feel free to correct me.

[DeniZen]

Q. Why do people always say get a good base first?

If you are eating right, and making some small strength gains then what’s the need for a base?

The whole point of taking AAS is to add muscle, not wait 10 years until you have muscle base to then take it.

If your PCT is correct, you increase your maintenance calories and continue training as hard as possible, then theoretically you should retain quite a fair bit of muscle.


Q. Some people say that you will struggle to retain any gains past your natural limit, so in theory, if you have yet to hit your natural limit, retaining gains should be easier, yes?

Q. Why do they say you will lose all your gains when you stop using? What’s the point of using it? To break through your natural level, but why? You will never retain it.

Why it is a person can only cycle once? But will always return for that second or third cycle? If they have retained their muscle then why return? Muscle dysmorphia?

Just trying to clear up some bro-science.

Thanks guys.

There isn't too much "broscience" here. This forum is loaded with some highly experienced vets and competitors who know their shit. And a couple of MDs as well. So its not a bunch of jackasses at the gym parrotting what they hear.

Secondly, I agree with most of what you say..to some extent. But after a couple of cycles it becomes pretty obvious these are powerful drugs, and care should be taken to avoid long term health problems...and other disasters like not being able to **** your lady lol.

[0403555555]

I don't mean on this forum, actually I meant in bodybuilding itself. It seems like myths just perpetuate.

If I asked what should I do for my first cycle, 100 people would say test, but how many would actually know why?
Why would I do a t only cycle for my first and not anav.ar?

I understand its up to an individual to do the research themselves, but now and again anecdotal evidence is sought out, is which case the 'bro's' have their say.

But you are right, there is some fantastic advice given on here.

[Zodiac85]

I don't mean on this forum, actually I meant in bodybuilding itself. It seems like myths just perpetuate.

If I asked what should I do for my first cycle, 100 people would say test, but how many would actually know why?
Why would I do a t only cycle for my first and not anav.ar?

I understand its up to an individual to do the research themselves, but now and again anecdotal evidence is sought out, is which case the 'bro's' have their say.

But you are right, there is some fantastic advice given on here.

I know why. I can tell you if you really want. But once you research enough to understand for yourself, you'll be off to a good start.

[0403555555]

Ok, since Im getting some good response I have another question.

I tell ppl, I want to cycle they say you dont need to, you have so much you could gain with a solid diet and training.

Ok, fair enough. I consult a dietician, show him my target body and he says you're looking at about 3 years. Keep in mind, its not particularly big or impressive.

How frustrating...The people say dont use gear you can just eat better and make gains, I set out to do that and the guy reckons it will take about 3 years on a solid diet to get close to a somewhat average physique.

(Marc Fitt at around 2011)

[Zodiac85]

Ok, since Im getting some good response I have another question.

I tell ppl, I want to cycle they say you dont need to, you have so much you could gain with a solid diet and training.

Ok, fair enough. I consult a dietician, show him my target body and he says you're looking at about 3 years. Keep in mind, its not particularly big or impressive.

How frustrating...The people say dont use gear you can just eat better and make gains, I set out to do that and the guy reckons it will take about 3 years on a solid diet to get close to a somewhat average physique.

(Marc Fitt at around 2011)

Can you post a pic? Hard to comment if we don't know what your idea of somewhat average is.

[NWIron]

I hear you brother. I understand your frustration. Much of the advice given is for your own good. However, many people will give you advice based on their own goals and experiences. Most guys are trying to put on as much muscle as possible….not me. If you are trying to get huge, then a good base is optimal. Anavar only is fine, but I would at least throw in 100-150mgs of testosterone to maintain sexual function, sexual desire, and motivation.

[0403555555]

Can you post a pic? Hard to comment if we don't know what your idea of somewhat average is.

Here's is the look I showed the dietician.

I hear you brother. I understand your frustration. Much of the advice given is for your own good. However, many people will give you advice based on their own goals and experiences. Most guys are trying to put on as much muscle as possible….not me. If you are trying to get huge, then a good base is optimal. Anavar only is fine, but I would at least throw in 100-150mgs of testosterone to maintain sexual function, sexual desire, and motivation.

Appreciate the insight NWIron! You raise some good points and maybe thats where the confusion lies, the idea that im chasing 50lbs of mass when in reality i need 15lbs. What type of size are you looking to add? What cycles have you done yourself?

Personally Im not convinced with Anavar , I respected member suggested it but I need to look into it some more.

Maybe a test cycle of a low dose 300mg could be an alternative, I'll have to read about how sides differ in a low dose cycle compared to say 500mg.

[cgi]

Here's the thing. The kind of muscle mass you would need to look like Marc Fitt for a newbie would be around 3 years and that's assuming you get down to his bodyfat percentage which looks to be around 7% bodyfat. In your first year of solid training and diet you would make incredible gains, adding AAS to a newbie routine would be a waste of money because the amount of muscle you would be gaining from the newbie gains vs the steroids . If you train for years and then go on AAS it's as if you're starting again and making your newbie gains. So taking AAS as a newbie won't double your results it's just a waste. The people I see who take AAS from day 1 always look worse than those who've been training for at least a solid andconsistent 3 years and have a solid understand of training and nutrition.

I'm still natural believe it or not and have been training for about 6 years. 2-3 years of which I actually understood what I was doing. I'm thinking and still researching AAS use so I know as much as possible before I start taking them. I've gained a lot of knowledge from these boards but also from observing and talking to people from all different stages and walks of life who took or take AAS.