Advice for kickoff cycle, after 3 years of being fat and lazy

**JBalls** · 10-09-2013, 01:13 PM

Sorry for the book... The main question: Whats a good stack to lean out and speed recovery without bulking?

Up until 3 years ago i was lifting 6 days a week and in great shape. Good definition, lean and strong(5'7, 175-180). Then, i took a demanding job requiring ~12hour days and I shit the bed with lifting. Over the last 3 years ive tried to get back into it but have had little luck, only a few 10 week stints in the gym. BTW, when i say out of the gym, i dont mean once a week, i mean never. Also a new wife that can cook, so a rather shitty diet(I have cleaned up the diet for the most part.)

Now, 32, 5'7, 190lbs of fun. I still have some muscle under all the fat and am not weak, i didnt loose everything. I just took a new position where i will have time to lift again. The only problem is that i cant get motivated. My biggest issue getting back into lifting has been DOMS. Its taken me 7+ days sometime for full muscle recovery after a moderate lift. I think a big issue is low test after getting fat. Ive always been schooled to allow a full recovery between lifts so the lift 2 days then wait a week killed me.

Iv probably done 6-8 cycles in the past, the last one probably 4-5 years ago. Usually a test base stacked with whatever. My goals were mass and strength. I have always been able to retain my gains very well post cycle.

I need some help with a motivating/gear up cycle/get fit cycle. Not looking for mass gains; just recovery, fat loss, mild strength. my first thought is 10weeks sust250 at 1ml/wk + 50gm anavar for 14 weeks followed by pct (prob clomid)

I was considering 14 weeks var 50mg/day + tbol 20mg day. possibly running two 7 week cycles with 4-6 weeks off in the middle.

I want to keep the cycle MILD with low risk to my body. I dont need/want crazy gains. Just help getting back into lifting and busting the gut faster than diet alone.

Please let me know your thoughts.

**MuscleInk** · 10-09-2013, 01:28 PM

Gear won't motivate you. Motivation will never be found in a bottle, pill, or syringe. I'm sure you know this. No one will recommend a cycle if you aren't committed to the lifestyle. Hormone manipulation can have deleterious effects and you have to be in the right frame of mind and committed to a current training and nutrition program to avoid injuries, minimize dangerous side effects of these drugs, and actually benefit from a cycle.

Regarding your testosterone levels , have you had them checked by a doctor to confirm your suspicions?

**JBalls** · 10-09-2013, 03:46 PM

thanks for not reading the entire post prior to your reply! please note the recovery issue i mentioned, and yes, low test is a fact. very common with fatties, wold not recommend getting fat.

**MuscleInk** · 10-09-2013, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by JBalls

thanks for not reading the entire post prior to your reply! please note the recovery issue i mentioned, and yes, low test is a fact. very common with fatties, wold not recommend getting fat.

Yes, with increase body fat estrogen increases as well and this will cause a lot of issues. We generally recommend reducing body fat to 15% (or better) of total body weight before a cycle is considered. When bf% is above 15, the risk of negative side effects increases.

I would recommend a complete hormone panel from your doctor to see where current levels are at. You may very well be a candidate for TRT.

**Euroholic** · 10-09-2013, 04:05 PM

Mate i often do 90 hour weeks and i still find time for gym so no excuses. Sorry to say it mate your mind is weak. You need to just force your self and make a routine and stick to it. And go get a blood test.

Good luck and remember if you fail your failing your self

**JBalls** · 10-09-2013, 04:12 PM

i had one ~6 months ago and im def low. my drs advice was to loose weight, which i have. im not low enough for TRT and dont have the desire to go that route.

and yes, weight gain does cause a lot of issues.

the recovery problem i have still exists which is why im posting. let me rephrase, i dont need motivation, i need to recover more efficiently so i can establish a routine. again, im not considering an aggressive cycle, i want something on the mild side to get my body up to speed.

**Euroholic** · 10-09-2013, 04:18 PM

What were your numbers? Go get another test from another dr

**Euroholic** · 10-09-2013, 04:19 PM

Steroids are not the answer here you need to find the problem

**JBalls** · 10-09-2013, 04:25 PM

i dont disagree a bit and im not going to sit and give excuses for me being lazy. just looking for advice with a mild cycle.

whats killing me is recovery. you all know the drill getting back into it after a layoff, im starting light with weights, 50lb dumbell press for example. super easy still. i was maxing with 110 and could probably hit 80s now just fine. but with just the 50s (3x10), i get sore ~two days after and remain sore for almost a week. in the past my recovery was days max after a heavy lift. almost a month of this now and it sucks. just an example of why im asking.

**evander87** · 10-09-2013, 04:31 PM

Ummm you've been out of the weight room for a while now. ANY compound you take is going to increase your muscle strength. But your connective tissue will remain weak.

What are you going to do to lose the weight when you get a serious injury because your connective tissue isn't strong enough to withstand the new added strength?

You need to hit the weight room natty for 18-24 months before cycling IMHO. In the mean time look into HIIT to lose the weight while waiting between lift days.

Oh and learn to love the DOMS every time I switch up my routine on or off cycle i get them.

**JBalls** · 10-10-2013, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by evander87

Ummm you've been out of the weight room for a while now. ANY compound you take is going to increase your muscle strength. But your connective tissue will remain weak.

What are you going to do to lose the weight when you get a serious injury because your connective tissue isn't strong enough to withstand the new added strength?

You need to hit the weight room natty for 18-24 months before cycling IMHO. In the mean time look into HIIT to lose the weight while waiting between lift days.

Oh and learn to love the DOMS every time I switch up my routine on or off cycle i get them.

Yes, i know that. I thought that was what i pointed out in the prior post. Also, just because i take a compound that increases strength doesnt mean i need to utilize that strength. The example about going light weight was describing this.
And seriously, learn to love doms? Did you not understand my post? I dont think anyone who lifts seriously doesnt love the pain. Im discussing the recovery time, not crying about being sore. Any yes, i can do HIT in the off days, however we end up with the same issue, recovery time. I still do moderate low impact cardio for ~30 min a day without issue, past 3 months.

Let me clarify, this shit was my LIFE from 14 till i was about 30. I am no noob and have lived and studied this stuff for years. I am not asking for feedback on my health, if there was ANY issue i would be addressing that with my Dr. and not looking to cycle. I sure as shit would NOT be looking for advice here if that was the case. Also, if i was not sure my body was in a condition to cycle, i would not be considering it.
The FACT is, i know how my body reacts and i know my bodys limits. So, im not asking for feedback on my body, health, or anything related. And no, maybe i didnt explain properly but im not going from nothing to cycle. I have been doing cardio regularly for the last 3 months and trying to lift (with the problems im explaining above).

You guys are coming off like cycles have 0 therapeutic value and are only for hardcore lifters? If that's your belief your sadly misinformed.

The question i have is related to thoughts on a MILD cycle focusing on muscle recovery and leaning out.

I am not looking for some kind of a quick fix to get ripped again in 3 months. I am not looking to get stronger, i am strong enough. i am not looking to get big. I do not have aspirations to be the strongest guy in the gym.

The cycle i proposed was
1ml sust 250 a week for 10 weeks - this is a pretty low dose, i want to add test primarily to aid in recovery
50mg var per day for 14 weeks - normal dose, primarily because anavar had good fat loss properties

What im asking is thoughts on this cycle, tweaking dosage or suggestions of other compounds that could be more beneficial for a cycle with the objectives i described above. Again, the objectives are recovery and fat loss.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-10-2013, 09:09 AM

Please list everything you ate yesterday.
Also what you did in the gym yesterday.

**JBalls** · 10-10-2013, 09:45 AM

bfast -1 bowl hnut cherrios w/ 2%, coffee
lunch - i turkey sand w/1 slice cheese on wheat, h2o
snack - 1 handful almonds, h2o
dinner - cup chx noodle soup & 1/2 turkey sand no cheese on wheat, h20

this is fairly normal, alternative below
bfast - cliffbar and tea
lunch - soup
snack - nuts or dried fruits
dinner - chx/fish, some green, some starch

workout yesterday was 30m cardio on elliptical

**Red Bastard** · 10-10-2013, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by JBalls

You guys are coming off like cycles have 0 therapeutic value and are only for hardcore lifters? If that's your belief your sadly misinformed.
.

It's the prevailing view here. All about protecting people from themselves. If you don't fit a narrow view of what is deemed appropriate for AAS use, ie: sub 15% BB, you get a strip torn off yer back!

And, no matter what the question is, "what are your stats?" , "what did you eat yesterday?"

There's a lot of narrow mindedness going on, with guys parroting what they've read...

Yeah, 250/week of Sus will aid recovery. The Var may or may not be a cost effective addition. You're an adult, so your call. A minor diet tweak may be all that's required, for the fat loss though.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-10-2013, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by JBalls

bfast -1 bowl hnut cherrios w/ 2%, coffee
lunch - i turkey sand w/1 slice cheese on wheat, h2o
snack - 1 handful almonds, h2o
dinner - cup chx noodle soup & 1/2 turkey sand no cheese on wheat, h20

this is fairly normal, alternative below
bfast - cliffbar and tea
lunch - soup
snack - nuts or dried fruits
dinner - chx/fish, some green, some starch

workout yesterday was 30m cardio on elliptical

Wow. Ok what is your tdee? Your diet needs work first off. And was yesterday on off day for training?

**Capebuffalo** · 10-10-2013, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Red Bastard

It's the prevailing view here. All about protecting people from themselves. If you don't fit a narrow view of what is deemed appropriate for AAS use, ie: sub 15% BB, you get a strip torn off yer back!

And, no matter what the question is, "what are your stats?" , "what did you eat yesterday?"

There's a lot of narrow mindedness going on, with guys parroting what they've read...

Yeah, 250/week of Sus will aid recovery. The Var may or may not be a cost effective addition. You're an adult, so your call. A minor diet tweak may be all that's required, for the fat loss though.

So what happens when he gets stronger on the sus but his ligaments and tendons can't handle the stress? Also what happens to any gain that is made if he doesn't know how to nutritionally maintain them? Care to parrot me a couple of answers or would that be to narrow minded of me to ask?

**Red Bastard** · 10-10-2013, 11:32 AM

Well, considering he's planning on 250/week, and not lifting heavy, I would think that his tendons are not at as much risk as someone not using AAS's, but lifting heavy, for maximum gains. As for losing some of his gains, would that be the end of the world? He clearly stated that he has been able to hold his gains quite well, post cycle, in the past. I imagine that he remembers how he did it before. Certainly the cost of the Sustanon is negligible, in the scope of things. Those of us who are still below our "genitic potential" keep our gains fairly easily, compared to long term cyclers.

But, it's all there, in his OP, so I'm just parroting what I read. Not a bad thing, in this case...

**Capebuffalo** · 10-10-2013, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Red Bastard

Well, considering he's planning on 250/week, and not lifting heavy, I would think that his tendons are not at as much risk as someone not using AAS's, but lifting heavy, for maximum gains. As for losing some of his gains, would that be the end of the world? Certainly the cost of the Sustan

Wow. Honestly wow.

**Red Bastard** · 10-10-2013, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Wow. Honestly wow.

Lol?

As you can see, I accidently posted, as I was typing/editing (iPhone fumble).

Did you actually grok his first post?

**JBalls** · 10-10-2013, 12:04 PM

First, ligaments have been addressed in this post in more than one way. 1 - im not lifting heavy, period; and 2 - i am not cycling for strength. You do realize tendons do strengthen right? and there is a timed approach on how to lift after a layoff specifically to address this issue?
Second, how to nutritionally maintain what? I dont think you understand my objective so i will reiterate. The objective is "recovery", not mass, not strength, not anything else. Dude, im married, i have no interest in getting ripped, posing in front of a mirror, banging a ton of bitches, or jacking off to how awesome my body is. Im not eating to get bulky or pack lean muscle on. im eating to be healthy, thats it.
Third, i have discussed how MY body reacts post cycle. Which is great. Considering my objective in not getting big, strong or ripped. I dont give a shit about gains. Its about recovery. If i was focused on gains at this point i would def rip a tendon.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-10-2013, 12:38 PM

And your goals can't be reached with hard work and dedication only? You're right I don't understand. Maybe someone else has an answer for you.

**JBalls** · 10-10-2013, 12:58 PM

lol, seriously?
your seriously posting that on a steroid forum?

forgive me, but cant the same be said to everyone on the forum? or is it only ok if your goals are unnatural and unachievable.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-10-2013, 01:40 PM

Ok you are looking for something to help with recovery because doms is too much for you to handle?

Most of us enjoy soreness it lets us know we have had a great workout. Ok fine you don't want that and you don't want o get bigger or stronger. Lift less weight than you are now and go to the gym more often.

You want to loose weight? Eat less. What is your tdee? What is your macro split? How many cals under maintenance are you consuming?

Come on now. You want someone to advise you a stack for this? I do honestly wish you the best because you will need it.

**JBalls** · 10-10-2013, 01:54 PM

dude, I already addressed this stuff in the post. another dude just like you wrote the same thing, that you clearly didnt read! and ive already responded to the exact same stupid comment!

at least take time to read the entire post before assuming.

**>Good Luck<** · 10-10-2013, 01:59 PM

Hey jballs, I'm going to be blunt because everyone seems to be pvssy-footing around.

YOUR A HUGE PVSSY AND SHOULDNT USE STEROIDS BECAUSE THEY WILL DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD. END OF STORY. YOU CAN INJECT ALL YOU WANT AND SWALLOW AS MANY PILLS YOU CAN FIND, AND YOURE STILL GONNA BE A PVSSY.

Yes, you've found steroid .com but don't think for one second you know how this site operates. We (all members and staff included) pride ourselves on giving the advice you need, not the advice you want. So here's what you NEED to hear.

Youre not ready for steroids and they won't make your experience better. You said you're not interested In trt, Well what do you think the consequence of cycling before you should are going to be? When you are told by a medical professional on this forum that sides will be increased by using to soon, what does that mean to you? Get your head straight, because most of the advice you've been given is 100% correct... unless u want to be a fat slob with even lower t and probably backne, depression, man boobs and who knows, maybe even a heart attack from abusing a weak heart.

Cheers bud, waiting for your smartass reply. Subscribed.

**0kriz** · 10-10-2013, 02:49 PM

You say that you cant get motivated and that you have trouble with your recovery. From that i understand, you will find motivation by doing something that makes you "superhuman" and i can understand that. but have you been thinking on other alternatives? like ephedrine and caffeine stacks? it decreases your hunger, gives you alot of energy and increase metabolism. steroids will work, but i think it is better and smarter ways for you to achieve your goals, at least for now. get your old lifestyle back and you will get back in shape quikly. i guess your biggest problem is the first 2 month, after that you will find everything alot easier!

**chester101** · 10-10-2013, 02:54 PM

Have you tried lucozade?? Apparently that aids recovery!

)

**>Good Luck<** · 10-10-2013, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by chester101

Have you tried lucozade?? Apparently that aids recovery!

)

Or red bull gives you wings

**JBalls** · 10-10-2013, 03:22 PM

Love the caps big guy. I get how the site operates now. Bunch of self proclaimed experts with reading comp issues dropping knowledge, got it.

What medical professional was dropping knowledge on me exactly(details)? And how do you define "too soon"? Was "too soon" studied or is this street knowledge with 0 clinical backing? Its interesting to hear all these "experts" who know so much not understand therapeutic use (also known as TRT). Last i checked the vast majority of clinical trials on these anabolics were not done on athletes and bodybuilders, mostly more normal pussies like myself, strange. Also buddy, side effects are not the same for everyone, fyi. I would also love to see the study illustrating the difference in side effects and this "too soon" area. but no worries, ive cycled most of this shit in the past, so i kind of already know how my body reacts.

**JBalls** · 10-10-2013, 03:31 PM

im not down with stimulants. never been a fan. (apart from am coffee)

I corrected my use of the word motivation earlier, poor choice of words. I have 0 interest in being superhuman these days. maybe in a few years. My sole objective is really recovery. My recovery time is super long, 7-9 days after a moderately easy lift. In the past it was 2 days, 3-4 if i went crazy.

**kapper** · 10-10-2013, 03:38 PM

Your not recovering as quick because ur not at the same fitness level u used to be, its frustrating when you know how fit u used to be and how easy recovery felt.. But if u rush into it ur only goin to injure urself therefore putting urself back to square one or if not even further behind! Build ur base again mate, im sure you will feel better for it in the longer run

**Capebuffalo** · 10-10-2013, 03:39 PM

I'm tired of you here.

Test 500 mg pw
Hcg 250 mg x 2 a week
Armidex .25 eod adjust accordingly

Pct novla 40/20/20/20
Clomid 75/50/50/50

Let us know how your recovery and weight loss is. Bye

**evander87** · 10-10-2013, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by JBalls

My recovery time is super long, 7-9 days after a moderately easy lift. In the past it was 2 days, 3-4 if i went crazy.

That's because you've been out of the gym for three years.

You got information. Seems to me like your seeking validation. You're a man, make the decision on your own and live with your decision.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-10-2013, 03:52 PM

From your original post

" Then, i took a demanding job requiring ~12hour days and I shit the bed with lifting."

There's your problem.

**JBalls** · 10-10-2013, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

From your original post

" Then, i took a demanding job requiring ~12hour days and I shit the bed with lifting."

There's your problem.

Yeah man, my problem. cant/wont deny it.

not looking for validation.

im considering the following
1ml/wk sust 10 weeks
50gm/day var for 14 weeks
pct w/ clomid

all i was asking for was a recommendation for a better mix or different duration to keep it mild.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-10-2013, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by JBalls

Yeah man, my problem. cant/wont deny it.

not looking for validation.

im considering the following
1ml/wk sust 10 weeks
50gm/day var for 14 weeks
pct w/ clomid

all i was asking for was a recommendation for a better mix or different duration to keep it mild.

Running var longer than test is asinine

14 weeks of an oral will destroy your liver. Again asinine.

Try ibuprofen for your doms. And maybe a tampon.

You can't make the blind see. I'm out.

**>Good Luck<** · 10-10-2013, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by JBalls

Love the caps big guy. I get how the site operates now. Bunch of self proclaimed experts with reading comp issues dropping knowledge, got it.

What medical professional was dropping knowledge on me exactly(details)? And how do you define "too soon"? Was "too soon" studied or is this street knowledge with 0 clinical backing? Its interesting to hear all these "experts" who know so much not understand therapeutic use (also known as TRT). Last i checked the vast majority of clinical trials on these anabolics were not done on athletes and bodybuilders, mostly more normal pussies like myself, strange. Also buddy, side effects are not the same for everyone, fyi. I would also love to see the study illustrating the difference in side effects and this "too soon" area. but no worries, ive cycled most of this shit in the past, so i kind of already know how my body reacts.

So why ask questions if you have all the answers? Why ask for help if you are only going to put down those who provide u with the info you need. I'm not going to validate your requests but you've been advised by a medical professional and that's all I will tell you. If they choose to identify themself thats up to them but i doubt theyll waste any time on you after your little tantrums. Good luck with your recovery and steroids making you less of a suck.

**AlphaMike** · 10-10-2013, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by JBalls

Yeah man, my problem. cant/wont deny it.

not looking for validation.

im considering the following
1ml/wk sust 10 weeks
50gm/day var for 14 weeks
pct w/ clomid

all i was asking for was a recommendation for a better mix or different duration to keep it mild.

No anavar dude, why won't you listen to some of these guys here with real world experience? All we want for you is to become that inner jacked dude you were always meant to be. Leave your ego out of this they'll help you make it a reality...and for free too

**SEOINAGE** · 10-10-2013, 07:53 PM

That's a lot of comments, don't feel like reading them all but thought I would throw my two cents in based off the OP.

Cycle, bad idea. not much to say that probably hasn't already been said.

Main thing I wanted to point out, problem is you are likely hitting your training too hard, start off really simple, do something that you can do again in a couple days without getting really sore, and ease into it, stick with a high frequency going into it, and then push yourself harder as you go. No reason to go all out with high volume, or even pushing yourself really hard when you are probably extremely out of shape. I had a period in my life where I got out of it, and I'm telling you I was more sore than before I ever lifted a weight because I hadn't been doing anything at all. You hate taking baby steps, but it is the smartest approach to getting you back into it. And I'm talking something simple with hardly any weight, and like single working set on an exercise, no joke. I know one time when i was trying to get back into it, i had to lay on the floor, and when i got home I immediately threw up, and that was from lifting weights, and it wasn't even hardly intense.

Get a base going again, don't do anything crazy, work into it and be extremely consistent, until you start to feel comfortable and can actually start working towards these goals. I know with you wanting to lose fat you'll want to go balls deep with your approach, but with my wife who I helped recently, I started her with the weights, and didn't even do anything to her diet until she had gotten used to it, talking 3 months here, she made progress, got stronger, built muscle, lost some fat, stayed the same body weight, all with an abundance of calories to most women, and then we started cleaning things up, but that doesn't entirely relate, but there are many cases where we push ourselves harder, and not smarter, and the yield is worse long term results.