First Pin Cycle! Test Cyp Base / M-drol Kick Start / Anavar Finish - Please Advise

Hello everyone,

As stated in my hello thread, this is my first go at injectable AAS. Some back-story; I've done two cycles of m-drol before this ad I've seen good gains (at a moderate costs) but not having a test base sure does hinder progress and increase unwanted sides resulting I've come to believe in a wasted cycle. Although the gains from the m-drol were around 10-15 lbs respectively for a 4 week cycle at 20mg ED, the lethargy, the shutdown, the depleted sex drive, the mood, the lack of appetite just were to much for me to make this cycle worth doing without a test base; at least not M-drol.

Anywho, here's my stats;

Age: 30
Height: 5'8
Current Weight: 173 lbs
Body Fat: 10.4%
Training Experience: 3 1/2 years body building and general sports since childhood (soccer and basketball mostly). Currently on a 6 day split, resting Sundays. Legs on Wednesdays and Saturdays. Monday is chest, Tuesday is back, Thursdays shoulders and light chest, Fridays all arms. Light cardio before starting for 10 min at 120-125 bpm. Workouts usually last anywhere from 35-80 mins (excluding cardio) depending.
Diet:
-Cals and Macros: Around 3500-4000 cals/day depending on activity and training level.
Example Day: Cals: 3609 | Fat: 26 g | Cholesterol: 308 mg | Sodium: 2879 mg | Carbs: 490 g | Fiber: 34 g | Protein: 368 g | Sugars: 76 g
-Foods: Complex carbs all around, mostly chicken and fish with brown rice, also altering the fish for extra lean turkey and also altering the brown rice for sweet potatoes, I try to change it up week by week. Meals are prepared for the week on Sunday and they go with me to work. I'm confident I can say I have my diet on point and in check most of the time. In fact my best gains have come with natural bulking and just eating right. There's nothing the gym will do for you if your diet is off; don't even bother going. Over the weekends I try and change it up and have some egg whites with oats for breakfast or a Greek yogurt-isowhey-almonds treat (<---delicious). Sundays are for pasta, I'm italian so that can't change even if my the healthiest person in the world. So I have whole grain pasta with organic tomatoes and home grown basil with a dash of fat free pecorino, it's not the recipe of la nona but it does the trick.

Now to the good stuff!!

Cycle Duration: 12 weeks(19 with PCT and 2 weeks between last pin and PCT)
AAS:
-M-drol (Some argue it's a ph but it's compound is a steroid in nature) / Weeks: 1-4 at 20 mg/ED
-Testosterone Cypionate / Weeks: 1-12 at 500 mg/week (2 pins/week Mon,Thur at 250 mg each (duh))
-Anavar / Week: 7 at 50 mg/ED / Weeks: 8-12 at 100 mg/ED
On Cycle Support:
-Himalayan Liv.52 Liver Support / Weeks: 1 - 16 at 2caps/ED (pre-loaded 2 weeks before cycle)
-Cycle Assist / Weeks: 1-16 at 4caps/2xED (pre-loaded 2 weeks before cycle)
-Lquid Stane (Exemestane/Aromasin) / Weeks: 1-2 at 6.25mg/ED Weeks: 3-12 at 6.25mg/2xED
-HCGenerate ES / Weeks: 1-12 at 5caps/ED
Pre-PCT(day after last pin):
day 1-4 : HCGenerate ES at 5tabs/ED (this is done throughout cycle ending days 4 after last pin).
day 5-14: HCG at 500iu/ED
day 1-18: Liquid Stane (Exemestane/Aromasin) at 6.25mg/2xED
PCT:
-Nolva / Week: 15 at 40mg/ED / Weeks: 16-18 at 20mg/ED
-Clomid / Week:15 at 100mg/ED / Weeks: 16-18 at 50mg/ED
-D-AA / Weeks: 15-19 at 3caps/2xED
Supplements:
-Fish Oil at 3caps/ED
-OptiMen Multivitamin at 4tabs/ED
-kre-alkalyn FX at 2caps/2xED (pre and post W/O)
-Gasparini SizeOn at 1 scoop Intra W/O
-Animal Flex Joint Support
-MusclePharm Amino1 at 1scoop/ED


This is my first pin cycle in a nut shell. Please if anyone has any info or advice do share your thoughts. I would really appreciate any feedback anyone might have. Thanks for reading guys.

Regards,

GPM.

First Edit: Changed Arimidex for Aromasin on PCT because Arimidex supposedly reduces the effectiveness of Nolvadex. Also upped the duration of PCT to 4 weeks. Second Edit: Added HCG Blast and seperated HCGenerate from cycle and PCT. Removed Phyto-serms; these and the HCGenerate both have fadogia agrestis, pointless to have two. Third edit: removed HCGenerate from PCT since I added the HCG blast pre-PCT. Fourth edit: Added Clomid to PCT as suggested and increased Nolva does for first week of PCT. Fifth Edit: Removed AI aromasin from PCT.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

I would recommend reading the above sticky and then spend some time reading as many others as you can. Your proposed cycle is drastically different than what will be recommended here.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac85

I would recommend reading the above sticky and then spend some time reading as many others as you can. Your proposed cycle is drastically different than what will be recommended here.

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Thanks for the link but I've already read through that a couple dozen times as well as countless other articles. I've been researching and preparing for some time now.

I know the cycle i'm proposing is different than the example in the thread you mention but that doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. I know what it feels like to get shut down and if I'm going to go through that it better be worth it IMO and a test only cycle doesn't seem worth it to me tbh (and boring). Besides Anavar is a very mild oral and I've had experience with m-drol before so I know what to expect from my body.

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Originally Posted by Gpmaury

Thanks for the link but I've already read through that a couple dozen times as well as countless other articles. I've been researching and preparing for some time now.

I know the cycle i'm proposing is different than the example in the thread you mention but that doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. I know what it feels like to get shut down and if I'm going to go through that it better be worth it IMO and a test only cycle doesn't seem worth it to me tbh (and boring). Besides Anavar is a very mild oral and I've had experience with m-drol before so I know what to expect from my body.

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Sounds like you've got it all figured out. If you were asking for input I'd recommend following the well researched protocol in the thread I linked. I think your previous wasted cycles have you underestimating the power of testosterone, but I don't have enough experience to argue about it. Maybe some vets will have different advice for you.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac85

Sounds like you've got it all figured out. If you were asking for input I'd recommend following the well researched protocol in the thread I linked. I think your previous wasted cycles have you underestimating the power of testosterone, but I don't have enough experience to argue about it. Maybe some vets will have different advice for you.

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I don't have it all figured out; thus the need for this thread. Did you read at all what I wrote in my first post? I actually do value and estimate correctly the need for testosterone in any cycle; going without it just doesn't make sense. I was just saying that IMO a test only cycle is for me at least not that appealing; not that you won't get results, just not the ones I want.

I would love to hear from some vets. It actually pisses me off a bit that some members posts their cycles with little to no info or nothing and everyone comes rushing in to ask them for stats to make a recommendation; I spend all this time writing this thread being as thorough as possible and no one replies with useful information on the cycle I'm trying to get together...I don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Gpmaury

I spend all this time writing this thread being as thorough as possible and no one replies with useful information on the cycle I'm trying to get together...I don't get it.

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Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. The thing that you're not getting is that there is a very specific protocol that will be recommended on this site. People will not reply with useful information on your cycle, because most will disagree with your cycle. For starters, I don't anticipate anyone will agree with using M-drol to kick start and anavar to finish. If you have spent much time researching on this site, you would be well aware and at least not surprised by the responses. You are welcome to do whatever you want, however.

I'll leave it there. I'm sure you'll get some responses from some more veteran members soon.

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Originally Posted by Zodiac85

Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. The thing that you're not getting is that there is a very specific protocol that will be recommended on this site. People will not reply with useful information on your cycle, because most will disagree with your cycle. For starters, I don't anticipate anyone will agree with using M-drol to kick start and anavar to finish. If you have spent much time researching on this site, you would be well aware and at least not surprised by the responses. You are welcome to do whatever you want, however.

I'll leave it there. I'm sure you'll get some responses from some more veteran members soon.

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I understand that there's a protocol but what's so wrong with thinking outside the box? And if people don't agree with the cycle they should say why they don't agree with it; not just say go read some more and come back to us when you're a freaking genius expert at AAS and then we'll answer your questions (which btw is asinine, why the hell would I ask you something I already know about).

The reasons I'm using M-drol as a kick start is:
1.)I had some left over from my previous cycle and though I would use it.
2.)I know how my body reacts to it and it kicks in rather quickly FOR ME; by the end of the second week I'm already gaining strength and weight is starting to creep up.
3.)From what I've gathered it would be useful if followed by an Anavar cycle to cut the soft gains had by the m-drol which I know affect me that way. M-drol gains are not as "hard" at least for me and Anavar is the number 1 steroid for hard (cutting) gains (that i'm aware about). So if I can harden the soft (yet considerable) gains of the m-drol with the anavar then it would sound to me to be a successful and worthwhile cycle. But you can't take these together, as two orals at the same time is hardly ever recommended so if you can use a bridge of sorts in the test cyp then maybe this cycle can work; separating the two intra-cycle. That's my reasoning anyway.

By the way I've researched and the majority of the cycles that used M-drol as a kick start were successful and positively reviewed by THIS forum. If I had permissions to place URL'S I would link the hell out of this post so you can see I'm not the first to suggest this route. Now if someone comes up and tells me that this won't work because some scientific reasoning then of course I'll consider changing my cycle but I won't just because it's not "protocol".

Hey everyone, I have 2 weeks between last pin and PCT. I've read Test Cyp would be better to wait a bit longer than Test E; around 18 days? Anyone has any insight into this?

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Originally Posted by Gpmaury

Hey everyone, I have 2 weeks between last pin and PCT. I've read Test Cyp would be better to wait a bit longer than Test E; around 18 days? Anyone has any insight into this?

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I feel bad that you didn't get any smarter answers, so heres a bump.

I don't know if you found your answer yet, but yes cyp is typically 18 days from last pin to PCT.

Hey op, just want to fortify the claims already made... nobody is responding to your thread because they've spent to much time designing and tayloring the best protocols for beginners, intermediate and advanced guys to have their hard work discounted and disregarded because newbs all feel they need to think outside the box or they have some really great excuse as to why they can't accept the advice readily available.

Bottom line is that your a man who can make his own decisions regardless of the advice you are given. What sense does it make for anyone (vet, mod or shmoe) to waste time on your thread when the only opinion you will get is already given, fortified and linked to in this thread. Youve never cycled test so how do you know you won't love it and get everything you want from it and more? You don't. So don't get your panties in a twist because vets aren't rushing to tell you to ho ahead with a cycle that is better for a 5-6th cycle- because it won't happen.

I hope u understand its not at all about you, but rather the same for everyone. Anyone who strays from the path shown on this forum, in my opinion, is robbing themselves the opportunity of getting the most from the least and minimizing negative health effects therefore hindering the life of their journey.

Good luck ;)

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Originally Posted by Zodiac85

I feel bad that you didn't get any smarter answers, so heres a bump.

I don't know if you found your answer yet, but yes cyp is typically 18 days from last pin to PCT.

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He did get good advice. You covered it well. Some folks just won't stop until they specifically hear what they want to hear. Otherwise it's in one ear and out the other. I don't get why people even ask for advice in these cases. It just becomes a waste of our time.

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Originally Posted by >Good Luck<

Hey op, just want to fortify the claims already made... nobody is responding to your thread because they've spent to much time designing and tayloring the best protocols for beginners, intermediate and advanced guys to have their hard work discounted and disregarded because newbs all feel they need to think outside the box or they have some really great excuse as to why they can't accept the advice readily available.

Bottom line is that your a man who can make his own decisions regardless of the advice you are given. What sense does it make for anyone (vet, mod or shmoe) to waste time on your thread when the only opinion you will get is already given, fortified and linked to in this thread. Youve never cycled test so how do you know you won't love it and get everything you want from it and more? You don't. So don't get your panties in a twist because vets aren't rushing to tell you to ho ahead with a cycle that is better for a 5-6th cycle- because it won't happen.

I hope u understand its not at all about you, but rather the same for everyone. Anyone who strays from the path shown on this forum, in my opinion, is robbing themselves the opportunity of getting the most from the least and minimizing negative health effects therefore hindering the life of their journey.

Good luck ;)

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Thank you for the reply. I appreciate the response , in a way it was part of the answer I was looking for; just not as remotely close to how you expressed it. I did not discount or disregard anyone's work, I think you're blowing that out of proportion a bit; I simply suggested a cycle that to me seemed interesting, I wasn't thinking about attacking anyone or insulting anyone, it was an idea which I wanted input on, that's it, as simple as that.

You or anyone could have said that I shouldn't do this because this is "a cycle that is better for a 5-6th cycle" with a reasonable explanation behind it and I would've more than likely agreed and followed their advise. I read that thread back and forth and it is very informative, I took it as a model for my own cycle and I did appreciate the work behind it. You're right I don't know how test alone affects me but I do know how m-drol affects me (and have a lot on hand) and I know it gives me puffed gains, or loose gains rather although considerable gains and I read that anavar helps harden results, that's the only reason I thought about adding the anavar and the m-drol. Listen I really do appreciate the work everyone's done around here, but you can't be this hard on people who don't follow "the path" man. Not to disrespect but responses like yours make me not even want to post anymore, something that supposed to be positive turned negative.

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Originally Posted by austinite

He did get good advice. You covered it well. Some folks just won't stop until they specifically hear what they want to hear. Otherwise it's in one ear and out the other. I don't get why people even ask for advice in these cases. It just becomes a waste of our time.

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With all due respect you don't know me well enough to make those assumptions about me. I apologize if I wasted your time or anyone else's.

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Originally Posted by Gpmaury

With all due respect you don't know me well enough to make those assumptions about me. I apologize if I wasted your time or anyone else's.

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No need to apologize. I never specified you. (Although I think you should start from scratch because you're not ready to cycle) I merey told him that he gave you good advice and generalized the rest.

So relax...

Just run it man, come back when you're done and let us know how it went. We're all big boys here(for the most part), so If you're wanting to experiment and you're certain your way will be the most effective just do it already, then log it.

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Originally Posted by austinite

No need to apologize. I never specified you. (Although I think you should start from scratch because you're not ready to cycle) I merey told him that he gave you good advice and generalized the rest.

So relax...

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lol You didn't have to, it was pretty indirectly direct; and I'm relaxed don't worry, I have other real problems I rather spend my time worrying about.

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Originally Posted by AlphaMike

Just run it man, come back when you're done and let us know how it went. We're all big boys here(for the most part), so If you're wanting to experiment and you're certain your way will be the most effective just do it already, then log it.

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Thanks man. If and when I do I'll keep this thread posted for anyone who wants to follow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gpmaury

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate the response , in a way it was part of the answer I was looking for; just not as remotely close to how you expressed it. I did not discount or disregard anyone's work, I think you're blowing that out of proportion a bit; I simply suggested a cycle that to me seemed interesting, I wasn't thinking about attacking anyone or insulting anyone, it was an idea which I wanted input on, that's it, as simple as that.

You or anyone could have said that I shouldn't do this because this is "a cycle that is better for a 5-6th cycle" with a reasonable explanation behind it and I would've more than likely agreed and followed their advise. I read that thread back and forth and it is very informative, I took it as a model for my own cycle and I did appreciate the work behind it. You're right I don't know how test alone affects me but I do know how m-drol affects me (and have a lot on hand) and I know it gives me puffed gains, or loose gains rather although considerable gains and I read that anavar helps harden results, that's the only reason I thought about adding the anavar and the m-drol. Listen I really do appreciate the work everyone's done around here, but you can't be this hard on people who don't follow "the path" man. Not to disrespect but responses like yours make me not even want to post anymore, something that supposed to be positive turned negative.

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Really? What a baby. Toughen up sweet cheeks cuz I only gave you the nice version. I didn't even rip on you for wasting your cash on m-drol which will kill your liver faster than dbol for breakfast lunch and dinner. Remember when you came looking for help? That gave everyone the right to tell you what they felt was best for you. Even if you don't like what is being said, you opened the thread.
Now to clear up why I said you've disregarded the work here is because:

1) you read the beginners thread and felt u needed to think outside the box. .. other peoples vast experience taylored those beginners cycles for very specific reasons outline in the thread you claim you've read dozens of Times. ...remember those reasons??

2) you called out the vets claiming they don't give time to threads like yours all detailed and perfect but jump to ask stats of newbs that make crappy threads

3) you have a "but" for every suggestion leading me (and others obviously) to believe you think you know better


...I could go on but won't.... I'm not being hard on you and neither is anyone else. Theyre being straight up. It not like I need to beat around the bush with you, or choose words wisely. The. You'd be left with the task of trying to decode the messages and possibly take the advice for something it isn't. "The path" is there so YOU (the reader) don't end up the next poster child for the anti-steroid campaigns. Its here to help you make the best possible choices and hopefully learn enough and care enough to pass the information along to the next guy or girl who comes along...but that would make you a parrot wouldn't it....

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Originally Posted by >Good Luck<

Really? What a baby. Toughen up sweet cheeks cuz I only gave you the nice version. I didn't even rip on you for wasting your cash on m-drol which will kill your liver faster than dbol for breakfast lunch and dinner. Remember when you came looking for help? That gave everyone the right to tell you what they felt was best for you. Even if you don't like what is being said, you opened the thread.
Now to clear up why I said you've disregarded the work here is because:

1) you read the beginners thread and felt u needed to think outside the box. .. other peoples vast experience taylored those beginners cycles for very specific reasons outline in the thread you claim you've read dozens of Times. ...remember those reasons??

2) you called out the vets claiming they don't give time to threads like yours all detailed and perfect but jump to ask stats of newbs that make crappy threads

3) you have a "but" for every suggestion leading me (and others obviously) to believe you think you know better


...I could go on but won't.... I'm not being hard on you and neither is anyone else. Theyre being straight up. It not like I need to beat around the bush with you, or choose words wisely. The. You'd be left with the task of trying to decode the messages and possibly take the advice for something it isn't. "The path" is there so YOU (the reader) don't end up the next poster child for the anti-steroid campaigns. Its here to help you make the best possible choices and hopefully learn enough and care enough to pass the information along to the next guy or girl who comes along...but that would make you a parrot wouldn't it....

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Listen whatever bro, no need to name call or be sarcastic with me, but you wanted to rip me for buying the m-drol? Really? I'm a grown ass man you think you can tell me what I should or shouldn't spend my money on? I know the shits toxic but taking precautions and being careful you can get away with a short cycle with tremendous gains so why not? You think I've haven't researched any of this before? Don't give me that crap that you care for me or any other newb and that your trying to enhance our experience, no one cares that much about anyone not even in the real world so don't come at me with that. This holier than though bs is getting ridiculous. If you want to help people, help them with whatever and not just with what you want them to ask you for help with. It's like you have to walk on glass and ask the right questions in order for people to help you wtf is that about? I'm done arguing and I'm done with this thread.

Mods if you wish to close this thread do, burn it, don't care what you do with it. I'm done being attacked for simply having an idea. I'm out.