Recommended cycle from coach - What do you guys think?

**chuans0n** · 10-21-2013, 02:41 PM

For my first c.y.c.l.e I engaged a coach (an successful international coach that has top ranked athletes in famous international competitions and around 4-5 lead athletes in different weight/competition classes in the country where i live) to put a meal/workout plan and also recommend the composition of my first c.y.c.l.e

The meal/workout plan seems go be well thought out but the plan contradicts with pretty much with everything that is being said in this forum (normal/sticky posts). I would like to have different opinions before I start my first experience. He didnt want me to take any test along with some quiet supressing stuff...

My problem is that I dont drink alcohol...dont smoke...never took any other illegal substance and this step is a huge one to me. I discussed with my wife and she's ok with it and my goals are not getting huge but much more to be on a physique class level (planning to do my first competition Sept 2014).

The recommended combo is:

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(he didnt mention the periodicity of HCG ...this will come when I have it...he just mentioned the total amount)

His argumentation was that he first wants to see how I react to those combos and told me that I would have close to no sides from this combo. What do you guys think?

My stats:

6'3 - 210 pounds at 15% bodyfat
Years of workout: 4
I workout 4 days per week
I eat pretty clean all year around (the 15% is the max I get on a bulk)

**Sfla80** · 10-21-2013, 02:44 PM

Have you researched anything yourself before listening to him?

**kelkel** · 10-21-2013, 02:46 PM

Nutrition may be his strong point, cycling isn't.

**clarky.** · 10-21-2013, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Sfla80

Have you researched anything yourself before listening to him?

This ^^

**MuscleInk** · 10-21-2013, 02:49 PM

Agreed. This "coach" needs to be hung upside down by his testicles for a few weeks at a time. This is one of the worst proposals I have ever seen and he claims nearly no side effects. Tell him to stick to nutrition and training and leave the real health matters and cycling to people who actually do know.

Go one step further.....fire him.

Originally Posted by kelkel

Nutrition may be his strong point, cycling isn't.

**austinite** · 10-21-2013, 02:52 PM

Welcome aboard,

No offense to your coach, but....

- Testosterone only for your first cycle.
- No cycles without testosterone.
- You'll feel baby aspirin before you feel anything from 30mg of anavar
- EQ at 400mg will do nothing beneficial whatsoever. Nothing at all.
- EQ suppresses hepcidin more than any other compound, leading to thick thick blood. Dangerous and will make you hungry.
- Trenbolone enanthate is too harsh for a first cycle.
- Trenbolone enanthate does nothing in 3 weeks. It needs 12 weeks.
- Nandrolone prop needs to be used daily or every other day. not twice weekly.
- 30 mg of Turnibol is a joke. Drink a red bull instead. It's more powerful.
- 20 mg of dianabol daily is weak and not needed for your first cycle anyway.
- PCT is embarrassing. You need SERMs nolva and clomid, not hCG .
- hCG on cycle only along with testosterone.

In my 17 years of use, I have never, not once in my life (not even as a joke) have seen such an irresponsible, useless and mind boggling cycle. Your coach just broke a new record.

Sorry man, I would not take any advice from this coach ever, nothing whatsoever. Steroid related or otherwise. Please have him join the forum here, I want to show him how irresponsible he is. He is causing damage to you and does not have your best interest.

**chuans0n** · 10-21-2013, 02:58 PM

To be honest with you...this is what was my first thought but he has VERY successful athletes and such who did pretty bad in the past and since they're coached by him they're constantly taking lead rankings in competitions...from bikini class to 90kg+ classes...

My opinion about my plan is:

- Some pretty harsh stuff for a beginner (tren , deca , orals...)
- I expect some huge hormon level changes every 3 weeks (as different compounds are used), which cannot be good for the body...
- I still see no reason why I cannot do a simple test only plan as I think that this should be sufficiant for someone who tries to compete on a physique class...(maybe some tren on cutting but that would be the max I see)

I'm struggling since 4-5 weeks to buy that stuff as it doesnt seem to be logical to me...

**austinite** · 10-21-2013, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by chuans0n

To be honest with you...this is what was my first thought but he has VERY successful athletes and such who did pretty bad in the past and since they're coached by him they're constantly taking lead rankings in competitions...from bikini class to 90kg+ classes...

My opinion about my plan is:

- Some pretty harsh stuff for a beginner (tren , deca , orals...)
- I expect some huge hormon level changes every 3 weeks (as different compounds are used), which cannot be good for the body...
- I still see no reason why I cannot do a simple test only plan as I think that this should be sufficiant for someone who tries to compete on a physique class...(maybe some tren on cutting but that would be the max I see)

I'm struggling since 4-5 weeks to buy that stuff as it doesnt seem to be logical to me...

Well I'm glad youre researching this... Start here...

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

**clarky.** · 10-21-2013, 03:08 PM

Fvcking hell guy's a missed the recommended combo never seen it OP i'm with ink on this one hang the cvnt up with the b*lls 6 different compound in 9wk's

**chuans0n** · 10-21-2013, 03:42 PM

It's just hard to belief that such a famous guy is so wrong with his recommendation....I mean a lot of his athletes had no success at all until he made them top level competitors...

I first thought that he might have come up with such a strange combo, because of the fact that I said that I dont want to run big cy.cles. But this plan will hurt me probably more then 500mg/week test for 12-14 weeks.

I'm not sure if he did this plan because of the fact that I was 350pounds 5 years ago but i'm lean (15% or under) since 4 years...just had this feeling because of tren and anavar (for lean gains)..but then...what does deca do in there?

**austinite** · 10-21-2013, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by chuans0n

It's just hard to belief that such a famous guy is so wrong with his recommendation....I mean a lot of his athletes had no success at all until he made them top level competitors...

I first thought that he might have come up with such a strange combo, because of the fact that I said that I dont want to run big cy.cles. But this plan will hurt me probably more then 500mg/week test for 12-14 weeks.

I'm not sure if he did this plan because of the fact that I was 350pounds 5 years ago but i'm lean (15% or under) since 4 years...just had this feeling because of tren and anavar (for lean gains)..but then...what does deca do in there?

Any chance you can get him to join? Or connect me with him privately?

**chuans0n** · 10-21-2013, 03:57 PM

I would love to!...My problem is that he's THE man in our gym and everyone (most of them being competitors) have a very high opinion about him...I dont want to get into any conflicts with him as this would probably result in me being forced to leave the Gym (as I would get into more discussions then working out actually). And it's by far the best gym that I can get into in the country (not only city) i live...

I really had mental issues thinking about this since weeks, as I was questioning his proposal all the time in my head (as I read a LOT before even thinking about steroids ) but never thought about posting this in this forum. Now, where I did it...really felt good...

**Ibasmusi** · 10-21-2013, 04:01 PM

Fire that coach for putting you at duch a health risk with that ridiculous cycle

**evander87** · 10-21-2013, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by chuans0n

It's just hard to belief that such a famous guy is so wrong with his recommendation....I mean a lot of his athletes had no success at all until he made them top level competitors...

Was he going to sell you the compounds too?

**Capebuffalo** · 10-21-2013, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

Well I'm glad youre researching this... Start here...

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

This is all you need.

Besides 34 yrs old what are your other stars and training experience?

**austinite** · 10-21-2013, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by chuans0n

I would love to!...My problem is that he's THE man in our gym and everyone (most of them being competitors) have a very high opinion about him...I dont want to get into any conflicts with him as this would probably result in me being forced to leave the Gym (as I would get into more discussions then working out actually). And it's by far the best gym that I can get into in the country (not only city) i live...

I really had mental issues thinking about this since weeks, as I was questioning his proposal all the time in my head (as I read a LOT before even thinking about steroids) but never thought about posting this in this forum. Now, where I did it...really felt good...

Maybe you can print my first reply (at least the bullet points) and let us know what he says.

**chuans0n** · 10-21-2013, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

This is all you need.

Besides 34 yrs old what are your other stars and training experience?

6'3 - 210 pounds at 15% bodyfat
Years of workout: 4
I workout 4 days per week (weights + 10min cardio - steady pace stairmaster)
I eat pretty clean all year around (the 15% is the max I get on a bulk)

Stats on the compound lifts are:

Barbell bench press (chest being my weakest body part) = 220lbs for 2 reps
Squats = 285 lbs x 8 reps (ass to the grass)
Deadlift = 385lbs x 1RM

**t-dogg** · 10-21-2013, 04:22 PM

Well that's interesting. Have you asked the other guys that he coaches there cycle experiences? Be curious if they all follow suit. Btw I wouldn't do that "cycle plan".

**kelkel** · 10-21-2013, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by evander87

Was he going to sell you the compounds too?

Now there's the correct question!

**chuans0n** · 10-21-2013, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by t-dogg

Well that's interesting. Have you asked the other guys that he coaches there cycle experiences? Be curious if they all follow suit. Btw I wouldn't do that "cycle plan".

This is the only reason why I even started to work with him. I mean I achieved dropping sh*t loads of weight by reading/studying nutrition and also testing out different workout plans...My initial idea was to get as much knowledge as I can and to start a very mild combo (250mg e7d). Then thought that I will anyway be shutting down my own Testosteron production (even with 250mg e7d) and that it would be a better idea to work with 500mg. I read all i can about PCT and said to myself that if I cannot do the cycling off and manage that time psychologically...then I should be keeping my hands of the steroids ...The whole concept of letting your body recover from the usage of steroids and not to supress the testosterone production for longer periods made perfectly sense to me...

But EVERYONE I talked to, who has been working with him (around 7-8 guys) said only positive stuff about him and now I probably unveil the secret too much but he also worked with a Top 5 Olympia athlete (I cannot say when and how long as it would be too obvious to find out)...And if you have such a guy in front of you talking about working out/nutrition/cycling, its veeeery easy to believe him. But at the end..it's me injecting stuff into my body and that was the main reason I always questioned his advices (which showed me also that the partnership we have is not the best as the trust relation is not there....)

**t-dogg** · 10-21-2013, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by chuans0n

This is the only reason why I even started to work with him. I mean I achieved dropping sh*t loads of weight by reading/studying nutrition and also testing out different workout plans...My initial idea was to get as much knowledge as I can and to start a very mild combo (250mg e7d). Then thought that I will anyway be shutting down my own Testosteron production (even with 250mg e7d) and that it would be a better idea to work with 500mg. I read all i can about PCT and said to myself that if I cannot do the cycling off and manage that time psychologically...then I should be keeping my hands of the steroids...The whole concept of letting your body recover from the usage of steroids and not to supress the testosterone production for longer periods made perfectly sense to me... But EVERYONE I talked to, who has been working with him (around 7-8 guys) said only positive stuff about him and now I probably unveil the secret too much but he also worked with a Top 5 Olympia athlete (I cannot say when and how long as it would be too obvious to find out)...And if you have such a guy in front of you talking about working out/nutrition/cycling, its veeeery easy to believe him. But at the end..it's me injecting stuff into my body and that was the main reason I always questioned his advices (which showed me also that the partnership we have is not the best as the trust relation is not there....)

I've never heard or read a cycle plan like that coming from a coach at a high level. I mean never.

**redz** · 10-21-2013, 04:42 PM

It really sounds like he is just trying to off his remaining inventory on you. That is the dumbest cycle ive ever seen.

**chuans0n** · 10-21-2013, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Now there's the correct question!

That is another issue...As I didnt want to get any non-quality stuff, I asked him if he has good relations that can provide me some quality stuff and that money is not that important. He first said that he has some people he trusts and that he would be asking them and that it shouldnt be an issue...After 3 weeks of waiting I got the feedback that his "friend" is now sitting in jail, as the Police did a big investigation in the dealer circles....I read this in the newspaper too and believed him...After that he said that he's sorry and that he cannot provide me any contacts and that I should also ask other people...This was the first time i was like..what the hell?! I paid him his yearly money (which is way above 1000$ - no personal training etc...only nutrition plans, workout plans and telling you how to diet down...last week of the competition etc. etc.....) and now the situation changes...

**pitchindude** · 10-21-2013, 04:47 PM

That's simply the worst "cycle" I've ever seen. Maybe he has had success with others but I doubt it was with cycles like these.

If you do this you will regret it.

**chuans0n** · 10-21-2013, 04:52 PM

I might also add that I NEVER heard of anyone of his athletes having such a cycle...most of them are on HGH...Test..igf1...insuline...but those guys have a competition weight of 240lbs-270lbs....the funny thing is that he's rejecting a lot of the people that ask him to train them...

**pitchindude** · 10-21-2013, 04:55 PM

Perhaps you stick with him for nutrition/lifting plans but leave the cycles to the knowledgeable folks around here. The guys around here, the vast majority anyway, have the knowledge to help you and will put health and safety first. Your coach seems to lack in these respects.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-21-2013, 05:08 PM

What is your goal for your first cycle?

**austinite** · 10-21-2013, 05:10 PM

This thread is kind of pissing me off. I know I said "No offense" to this coach, but honestly, I'd shatter his jaw right now if I saw him. Imagine this guy coaching my little brother. I'd make sure he couldn't speak for 6 months.

**evander87** · 10-21-2013, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by chuans0n

I paid him his yearly money (which is way above 1000$ - no personal training etc...only nutrition plans, workout plans and telling you how to diet down...last week of the competition etc. etc.....)

Yearly at above $1000???

I know many show prep coaches that charge $1600 for a 16 week prep. Hell even the local guys prepping for regional shows charge $600 for a 12 week prep. Even if it's $2000 for a whole year he's charging bargain basement prices. I guess you get what you pay for.

**OnTheSauce** · 10-21-2013, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by chuans0n

6'3 - 210 pounds at 15% bodyfat Years of workout: 4 I workout 4 days per week (weights + 10min cardio - steady pace stairmaster) I eat pretty clean all year around (the 15% is the max I get on a bulk) Stats on the compound lifts are: Barbell bench press (chest being my weakest body part) = 220lbs for 2 reps Squats = 285 lbs x 8 reps (ass to the grass) Deadlift = 385lbs x 1RM

These are pretty weak lifts after four years, no offense. Sounds like you def need a coach

**t-dogg** · 10-21-2013, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

This thread is kind of pissing me off. I know I said "No offense" to this coach, but honestly, I'd shatter his jaw right now if I saw him. Imagine this guy coaching my little brother. I'd make sure he couldn't speak for 6 months.

Agree. Sad. You see pictures and horror stories, and you wonder if it's just dumb people or really bad advise.

**John Andrew** · 10-21-2013, 07:21 PM

This coach has you paddling up shits creek in a barbed wire canoe using a Gidgy gidgy fire stick as a paddle and spearing tadpoles with a crowbar. He has no ability and so he preaches his gospel. See how far you can shove it up has asse.

**MuscleInk** · 10-21-2013, 07:40 PM

John, tell us how you REALLY feel big guy!

That made me LOL.

Originally Posted by John Andrew

This coach has you paddling up shits creek in a barbed wire canoe using a Gidgy gidgy fire stick as a paddle and spearing tadpoles with a crowbar. He has no ability and so he preaches his gospel. See how far you can shove it up has asse.

**chuans0n** · 10-22-2013, 02:09 PM

I've got some news...

After the discussions here on the board yesterday I got approval for what I was thinking for the last 4-5 weeks..I sent an email to him and explained that I'm not willing to follow his cycle but told him that I would like to discuss this topic today in the gym...

After my workout we sat together and I told him that I respect him (just to make the discussion even possible as questioning him, the so called guru, would escalate in an ego-drama from his side probably) but that I want to make my own experience with the stuff I believe in...

He said so many wrong things during the discussion that I really asked myself if this is the same guy that is training all this over the top athletes....some statements from the discussions

"Arimidex at 0.25mg doesnt bring anything to the table..."
"Ok..if you want to go with Testo it's fine...but dont use enanthate ...it will make you have bad mood...without power...low libido"
"Do a test prop cycle for 4 weeks of 3 x 100mg and then gradually drop the dose week per week 3 x 75mg 3 x 50mg etc." Whats the point of this? My own production will be supressed by the exogenous test...but will gain nothing from it...
"After that you start your HCG injections"

I'm still shocked...

**redz** · 10-22-2013, 02:22 PM

Guy is a moron... Test e will jack up you sex drive.

**Ibasmusi** · 10-22-2013, 02:32 PM

Whaaaat?! I am on test e now and it does NOT supress your sex drive! Quite the opposite!

**chuans0n** · 12-13-2013, 05:12 PM

Just to give you a status on this...

I'm still amazed how such a coach can have such a success but I talked to several people and spent a lot of time to get more and more knowledge on the topic and also had discussion with people that he coaches...I saw their cycle plans and they're all full of s.h.i.t.

I had several discussions with him to get my money back and finally get some (50%) of it back...it was a really good lesson to me and I don't plan to work with any coaches in the near future...I think that I have a lot of knowledge about training and nutrition and was lacking any knowledge in the steroids field. I hope to fill that gap over time and trust in my knowledge and the knowledge I can find from different sources (internet, gym friends etc.) and build my own opinion...