First post & First Cycle. Advise please.

Stats:
Age 25, 5'8, +-168 lbs
Lifting experience since I was 13. Got into bodybuilding around the age of 16.
My first competition was about 3 weeks ago in which I placed first in the open division.
Stage weight was 155.

I have made the decision to go over to the dark side of bodybuilding because I know this is what I want to do. I loved competing and I want to make as much improvements as possible in this off season.

Once I start I plan on being in a surplus of around 500 calories. I will make adjustments on that if needed.
Goals would be to add lean muscle. Definitely not going to go overboard with bulking this winter.
My ultimate goal would be to compete 10 pounds heavier. My next competition I plan on doing is around august of next year.

This is the cycle I have decided to start with. What do you guys think?

1-12 Test Cyp 400mg
1-4 Dbol 30mg a day. 10mg tabs three times per day.
1-12 Adex .5mg EOD

PCT

8-12 HCGenerate 5 caps per day
10-14 HCG 1000 IUS a week
15-18 Clomid 25/25/25/25
15-18 Unleashed/Post cycle combo
15-18 Forma Stanzol

Welcome to the board, TooGood! And thank you for the proper introduction.

Short on time so I will leave you with a few bullet points and a link to help get you stared...

- Testosterone only for your first cycle so you can identify where side effects are coming from.
- hCG on cycle, never ever post cycle. Weeks 1 to 12.
- HCGenerate is a scam really, just herbs and aminos in poor quantities. Don't waste your money.
- Same with 'Unleashed', garbage. No need for Forma post cycle either.
- You'll need to couple Clomiphene with Tamoxifen for the betterment of recovery.
- Clomiphene 75/35/35/35 & Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20

Here's a link that may help you some: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

Best of luck to you and have a powerful day!

Oh its all good that you are short on time man.
I have read those stickies and they are very informative for sure.

My thing is this in regards to the critiques you have made and out of no disrespect by any means.

I came from another steroid site and everyone on there swears up and down about hcgenerate, post cycle and unleashed. They all have had "amazing recovery during PCT"... Now I know certain forums push certain products and what not but in your opinion these products are no good for what reasons? Because I already have them on hand and would like to not waste them if possible. But if they most certainly will not help out with my recovery then I will do something else.

Also is the Nolva really necessary to stack with the clomid? I have heard both sides of this argument so its kind of like "he said she said" type thing.
Just trying to learn and take everyones opinions on this and come to the best decision.

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Originally Posted by TooGood

Oh its all good that you are short on time man.
I have read those stickies and they are very informative for sure.

My thing is this in regards to the critiques you have made and out of no disrespect by any means.

I came from another steroid site and everyone on there swears up and down about hcgenerate, post cycle and unleashed. They all have had "amazing recovery during PCT"... Now I know certain forums push certain products and what not but in your opinion these products are no good for what reasons? Because I already have them on hand and would like to not waste them if possible. But if they most certainly will not help out with my recovery then I will do something else.

Also is the Nolva really necessary to stack with the clomid? I have heard both sides of this argument so its kind of like "he said she said" type thing.
Just trying to learn and take everyones opinions on this and come to the best decision.

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:)

You certainly did not read my sticky threads. Not sure what you read but nolva/clomid combo is explained in detail.

Are you familiar with amino acids and herbs? If so, look at the ingredients of those compounds. That's all you need to do.

Can you please post the scientific reasons why these other forums say hcgeneerate and the likes actually work? I need to see it for myself. I assume that you have scientific explanations and didn't just "take their word" for it.

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Originally Posted by TooGood

Stats:
Age 25, 5'8, +-168 lbs
Lifting experience since I was 13. Got into bodybuilding around the age of 16.
My first competition was about 3 weeks ago in which I placed first in the open division.
Stage weight was 155.
I have made the decision to go over to the dark side of bodybuilding because I know this is what I want to do. I loved competing and I want to make as much improvements as possible in this off season.

Once I start I plan on being in a surplus of around 500 calories. I will make adjustments on that if needed.
Goals would be to add lean muscle. Definitely not going to go overboard with bulking this winter.
My ultimate goal would be to compete 10 pounds heavier. My next competition I plan on doing is around august of next year.

This is the cycle I have decided to start with. What do you guys think?

1-12 Test Cyp 400mg
1-4 Dbol 30mg a day. 10mg tabs three times per day.
1-12 Adex .5mg EOD

PCT

8-12 HCGenerate 5 caps per day
10-14 HCG 1000 IUS a week
15-18 Clomid 25/25/25/25
15-18 Unleashed/Post cycle combo
15-18 Forma Stanzol

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you placed first at 155 in the OPEN class? A bit hard for me to believe, you couldn't have been competing in the NPC were you? When you get your questions answered tell me a little more about it.

No no I did for sure read them. I have also read in other explanations about why its not good either.

I would have to do some digging around back on the sites to pull up the research that was conducted about the nova and the other products I have listed. It would take me some time to pull them up. I know that does not do me and you any good now, but it is what it is.

Anyhow, you dont recommend staking an oral for your first cycle with test?

Yes I got first place in the Open class.. I didnt take the overall though. It was a natural NPC event. They have different weight classes in the open division in natural shows. I competed against 10 other solid dudes.

Hmm. I'm actually going to let others help out. You say that you read explanations why it's not good, yet you have to "Dig them up", that tells me you didn't understand what was explained to you.

Anyway... Best of luck to you. I just can't go back and forth with objections that don't have explanations attached.

I would take the time to look them up if you want me too, but I am quite busy right now. I dont want to get in a pissing contest with you by any means, that is why I was trying to let it go. I definitely agree with not going back and forth without evidence, so lets move on.

Dont agree with the starting with an oral?

Not at all brother. I am not looking for an internet argument :) Just looking for logical theories. I'm happy to wait until you have time.

Yes, I do not agree with starting an oral. I've explained this in great detail in my sticky thread.... the one you read :p

Bro those compounds you are talking about.Well like Austinite said they are no good.I have read many threads about guys using them with no results.Nova and clomid is the way to go.You can read about this in the pct section.I would suggest you do some research prior to your cycle.And I will tell you this if Austinite tells you something.You can bet its correct and it wasn't 2nd hand info.This guy does a lot of research and knows wat he is talking about.Good luck bro.

So are we just going to keep going back and forth here about whether or not you believe me that I have read your stickies or what?

Im pretty sure there has been times where you have read some research and you didnt happen to "bookmark" it and later on down the road that topic arrises and you know it would be very hard to go back and find. If you haven't, chance are you havent read many scientific studies. No reason to keep being a dick about this topic. Believe what you want too. Also perhaps you shouldn't be so closed minded.

I will definitely agree with you and I am sure that he does in fact know a great deal about everything. However, I do think that there is more than one way to skin a cat..

Won't find any info on HCGenerate in any reputable, peer-reviewed scientific publications (at least none that I have found in the past 18 months). All the hype is anecdotal, bro science, or marketing pushed by companies like Nutraplanet. Follow the protocols suggested here. We don't get reimbursed for getting you to use HCG during cycle. The only interests we have are in your health and safety and no one pays us for that. ;)

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Originally Posted by TooGood

So are we just going to keep going back and forth here about whether or not you believe me that I have read your stickies or what?

Im pretty sure there has been times where you have read some research and you didnt happen to "bookmark" it and later on down the road that topic arrises and you know it would be very hard to go back and find. If you haven't, chance are you havent read many scientific studies. No reason to keep being a dick about this topic. Believe what you want too. Also perhaps you shouldn't be so closed minded.

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That's not very nice. I've been very kind to you and trying to help you. You just seem to want answers and not offering anything in return. I'm not sure why you're posting thread, asking for advice, and rejecting it. Your post says ...

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This is the cycle I have decided to start with. What do you guys think?

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I responded to you and you refused to accept and/or rebut reasonably. My point wasn't to prove that you haven't read my thread, it was merely to indicate that you need to educate yourself properly. But all you want to discuss are things that you want to hear. No reason for a thread in that case, because that's indicative of you already knowing what you want. So just do it.

I'm going to ask you to please refrain from name calling.

Thanks.

I was posting this thread to see if I could get some advice and not get jumped on for not being able to pull up the research I have seen on those supps. I guess you can say, a better explanation as to why the PCT I listed was not great other than them just having herbs in them is what I was seeking with trying to find answers.

Thanks Muscle Ink, I will definitely look into using the protocols here for sure.

I apologize for name calling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TooGood

I was posting this thread to see if I could get some advice and not get jumped on for not being able to pull up the research I have seen on those supps. I guess you can say, a better explanation as to why the PCT I listed was not great other than them just having herbs in them is what I was seeking with trying to find answers.

Thanks Muscle Ink, I will definitely look into using the protocols here for sure.

I apologize for name calling.

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Good call. Our members won't steer you wrong. We want you to have the best attainable experience with minimal risks. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TooGood

So are we just going to keep going back and forth here about whether or not you believe me that I have read your stickies or what?

Im pretty sure there has been times where you have read some research and you didnt happen to "bookmark" it and later on down the road that topic arrises and you know it would be very hard to go back and find. If you haven't, chance are you havent read many scientific studies. No reason to keep being a dick about this topic. Believe what you want too. Also perhaps you shouldn't be so closed minded.

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First day on the forum and you are being arrogant to one of our most knowledgeable and active members... Not a good start bud when your trying to get advise. Knock yourself down a peg or two.