Returning member.. here to help you guys out if you need my help.

[docdoc]

Yes I have taken a few cycles of test before but with no pct and lost most of my gains

Dude, don't do anymore cycles before getting full blood work done. I know it's tempting but trust me on this one. you don't wanna go to a doc few years down the line complaining about not being able to have kids or keeping it up.
Even if you feel like you're hormones are properly balanced… get a blood test and get it checked.

But to answer your question.. You're gonna need more sust… you have enough deca, don't use winny. If u can, find someone you can do a swap or something with to get rid of winny and get more sust.
You're definitely gonna need pct… Clomid, tamoxifen and Arimidex(just incase)

[Caddiguy]

Ok, I have been thinking about getting it checked but just haven't yet. So say I did find more sust.. Say like another 10 ml vial is that enough?

[docdoc]

Ok, I have been thinking about getting it checked but just haven't yet. So say I did find more sust.. Say like another 10 ml vial is that enough?

U sure you've done a cycle before this bro?

[Caddiguy]

Lol yeah I really have but I didn't have anyone to really guide me. So I have a lot of dumb questions still.
My last cycle was test cypionate 1cc twice a week for 10 weeks

[cj111]

To be honest man, I had to read an ENTIRE BOOK to learn about ECGs lol.
To understand it, you have to understand the physiology of the pacemakers of the heart (SA and AV nodes). When I was studying for my boards, I would actually youtube those videos for short explanations.. they're easier to understand when u understand cardiac physiology.

Oh I got a good grasp on the basics, I'm an EMT student and just looking to start understand the 12 leads. We set them up and the paramedics read them. Ive watched some youtube vids and done some google stuff was just wondering if there was anything inperticular you would recommend.

[Igifuno]

What were you doing when you had these episodes as a child and would you be able to share your EKG results with me? Your fluctuating BP results could merely be from anxiety. But the chest pain you used to get as a kid plus the pain you got after you ECA stack got me intrigued. It seem's like irregular pacemaker activity. ephedrine affects your pacemakers of the heart.. how much ephedrine did you take? did you take too much? did you try to lower your dose and see if that helped? NO Explode is full of caffeine.. altho caffeine also increases your HR, it has a different mechanism of action as compared to ephedrine. I would need to see your ECG and recommend that you stop with NO Explode and prework outs altogether.
I would put you on a simple B-blocker like propranolol and see how that goes. I suggest you make an appointment with a cardiologist and get i checked out. You would really benefit from propranolol and it would also help control your fluctuating HR.

Do you have any other symptoms? do you feel like passing out when you get these episodes?

I happened randomly.. I could be exerting myself or I could just be sitting around at the dinner table. Sudden, sharp pains on the left side of my chest right where my heart is. It happens less frequently now, but it still happens occasionally.

Unfortunately, I never hung on to any of my EKG results... Next appointment I have I will be sure to get it and send it your way for review. This brings me to another question for you. I've been hesitating going to the doc (for bloodwork and checkup) due to the fact that I'm currently on cycle. How do you suggest I handle this? If the doc questions me about high test levels, what is the best reply? I would like to make an appointment, but not sure if going on cycle is the best time..... ?

Never took more than 50mg/ed of ECA.. morning and afternoon 25mg. The pre w/o drinks to not seem to induce chest pains, but I do notice my heart beating very hard, as I mentioned earlier.

I never feel like passing out, but have gotten pretty freaked out many times as the pain has been pretty significant. I find that, if I blow out all the air in my lungs and then try to breath again, the pain typically subsides.

[AD]

Igi how long does each painful episode last? Seconds or minutes or hrs?

[Monbrow89]

Crazy Mike?

So I'm not the only suspicious one...

[AD]

So I'm not the only suspicious one...

Like previously said, I've never seen Crazy type one single complete sentence.

[Monbrow89]

Like previously said, I've never seen Crazy type one single complete sentence.

Yeah I realised when I read further into the thread. Then it dawned it may be someone else from chemical muscle maybe? I'm naturally skeptical lol

[Igifuno]

Igi how long does each painful episode last? Seconds or minutes or hrs?

seconds or minutes.. never hours. Longest time ever I'd say 2-3 minutes. It gets to the point where I can't breath in without extreme sharp pain in my chest. Like I said in the last post, I found that if I force all air out of my lungs and then try to breathe, it most often subsides or the pain is significantly reduced, and then ultimately goes away.

[AD]

seconds or minutes.. never hours. Longest time ever I'd say 2-3 minutes. It gets to the point where I can't breath in without extreme sharp pain in my chest. Like I said in the last post, I found that if I force all air out of my lungs and then try to breathe, it most often subsides or the pain is significantly reduced, and then ultimately goes away.

Hey while waiting for doc to reply, have you read this:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleurisy

Under "Causes", I would imagine yours is idiopathic.

What did your doctors find anyway, nothing?

[Igifuno]

Hey while waiting for doc to reply, have you read this:

Pleurisy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Under "Causes", I would imagine yours is idiopathic.

What did your doctors find anyway, nothing?

Pleurisy.. I've heard of this before but had no idea what it was. Doctors have never mentioned this to me before but this is very interesting.. thanks AD - appreciate it. I'm definitely going to bring this up to the next doc I see.

correct, doctors findings have always been 'nothing'. One even called me paranoid. A few years ago, I wore a heart monitor for a week and they said they saw nothing abnormal.

[johnnymctrance]

nice

[AD]

Pleurisy.. I've heard of this before but had no idea what it was. Doctors have never mentioned this to me before but this is very interesting.. thanks AD - appreciate it. I'm definitely going to bring this up to the next doc I see.

correct, doctors findins have always been 'nothing'. One even called me paranoid. A few years ago, I wore a heart monitor for a week and they said they saw nothing abnormal.

but Igi, all i did was give you a name. it doesn't mean that its something you need to fix. my own personal view about medicine is, if its not life threatening (in your case, a heart attack), and if the symptoms go away with simple medications (in your case, just emptying your lungs), then i would just leave it alone. chasing it further with more investigations will just make your dr rich. doesn't make you better at all. but thats just me

[Igifuno]

but Igi, all i did was give you a name. it doesn't mean that its something you need to fix. my own personal view about medicine is, if its not life threatening (in your case, a heart attack), and if the symptoms go away with simple medications (in your case, just emptying your lungs), then i would just leave it alone. chasing it further with more investigations will just make your dr rich. doesn't make you better at all. but thats just me

its the long term I'm worried about. I've been convinced for years that I will die of a heat attack or some kind or heart failure. Maybe I am paranoid but the chest pains are not in my head. I just want to know that I'm going to live long, and this sh*t has been on my mind for years.

[Igifuno]

where are you docdoc?

Hey post your emergency on call number so we can let you know when we need you bro..

[Bert]

Thankyou for your time.

[Igifuno]

bump for docdoc..

calling Dr. docdoc.. you are needed for patient assistance in the anobolic forum..

I'm sure you're taking the weekend off and will be back Monday -

[docdoc]

bump for docdoc..

calling Dr. docdoc.. you are needed for patient assistance in the anobolic forum..

I'm sure you're taking the weekend off and will be back Monday -

what's going on fellas.. I work on the weekends too, gotta bring that big check in. I've been on call for past 3 days and I get tomorrow off.
I don't think you have pleuritis or "pleurisy". You said you had chest pains that come and go and that's not a feature of pleuritis. If you had pleuritis you would've had a continuous pain which would get worse during inspiration. and it also would present with fever and chills. Pleuritis is cause by an infection (bacterial or viral) of your pleura (pleura = a layer that surrounds your lungs, separating it from other organs around it.)

I'm afraid without the ECG readings I would have to go with other doctors on this one. It can purely be a psychological issue. The reason why I'm leaning more towards a psychological issue is because you said your blood pressure fluctuates. Believe me, I've come across a lot of cases like these. The patient gets anxious before I take their BP cause they're afraid of it being high or maybe it's the white coat who knows, but their BP always reads out normal after I comfort them and calm them down a little.

When I say "psychological issue" please don't think I mean there's something wrong in your brain. It's a normal thing which EVERYONE deals with. I'll admit it, I'm a little OCD and that's actually considered a psychological illness lol.

I would advise you to go to a cardiologist and get through cardiac testing done. There's only so much I can do via the forums. I believe propranolol would really help you out. Believe it or not, even though medicine has advanced so much, there are so many illnesses that are still unknown and are passed off as some other condition that presents itself similarly. Take fibromyalgia for example, before they knew what it was, they just had patients complaining to the doctors that their muscles were hurting and had shooting pains. In the beginning doctors believed it to be a "psychological issue", they figured patients were looking for attention or some bs like that. But more and more people came out with this and then they realized that it's actually a real issue and classified it as a disease and called it "fibromyalgia".

With that being said, you have to understand that this happens VERY RARELY. What you have may or may not be psychological but I do know that we have d rugs that can help you with it… propranolol. Cut out all stimulants for a month and monitor yourself and see how your heart responds to that. Looking at you picture I can see that you're a big a$$ dude… So naturally, your heart has to work harder than usual since u have more mass now. That might've exaggerated your problem a bit. I can go on and on about my diagnoses without ECG readings, your resting HR and 3 of your BP readings (recorded on 3 separate occasions). I would need to auscultate and check for your heart sounds as well.

Since, we're on forums all I can do is advise you to stay clear from ANY stimulant for a month and go to a doc. and next time go to a doc right when one of these episodes occur.. that would help out immensely.

P.S. Please excuse my grammar as I've just got home from a 72 hour shift

[Igifuno]

docdoc! Fantastic post and welcome back You had me worried for a bit.. lol

Many thanks for the well thought out response and advice. Okay so starting tomorrow, no stimulants (pre workout drinks). I want to go to the doc, but do you think they will take blood? I'm currently on cycle, so what do you think the best way to handle this would be?

[docdoc]

Oh I got a good grasp on the basics, I'm an EMT student and just looking to start understand the 12 leads. We set them up and the paramedics read them. Ive watched some youtube vids and done some google stuff was just wondering if there was anything inperticular you would recommend.

Ok, How about this… Do your research online. And if you're confused about something or need help with explaining something just hit me up with your questions. I'll be more than happy to answer them for you. I honestly don't have any online sources to recommend to you.

If you wanna know what the reading's mean.. I drew some pictures for you. This has to do with THE MOST COMMON HEART DISEASE IN U.S.A… Myocardial Ischemia..

Here it goes..





I've quoted all this from a book I use while studying for my boards..
U said you've

[docdoc]

docdoc! Fantastic post and welcome back You had me worried for a bit.. lol

Many thanks for the well thought out response and advice. Okay so starting tomorrow, no stimulants (pre workout drinks). I want to go to the doc, but do you think they will take blood? I'm currently on cycle, so what do you think the best way to handle this would be?

I follow the standard doctor patient confidentiality… If a patient tells me that he or she is using anabolic steroids, I wouldn't report him/her to the authority (doctor patient confidentiality). However, If I were to access that the patient is posing a risk to him/her self or others.. It would be my job to report it.
So this is what I can tell you will happen… you doctor will most likely not report you, if you seem like a normal person lol. BUT the doctor will add this in his report! meaning your health insurance will know about this. Therefore, if u wanna do this do it without insurance… It will cost you a lot of money.
If you've been to this doc recently and he has a record of your recent blood work, he won't order another one. I don't think your doctor would draw blood for this… unless u say you recently had an episode.. he would draw blood to check for certain enzymes that are elevated during a cardiac problem.
If you came to me and I didn't know you, I would draw your blood to check for d rugs like amphe tamines and sh!t. But that's a blood test specifically to check for that.
what I'm trying to say is that the doctor has to order a specific blood test.. like a lipid profile or d rug test or maybe your hormone levels.
Just cause they draw your blood it wouldn't mean that they will se your testosterone levels… unless the doctor orders that.

You can either do what I said earlier… pay out of pocket so you can avoid you health insurance knowing about this.. just incase your doctor orders FULL bloodwork.
OR
Just go to your doctor and don't tell him about u taking anabolic steroids… if he orders blood work just look at what kind of blood work he wants the lab to do. you can refuse it and walk away if you want.

[docdoc]

but honestly bro, I think you'll be fine. Just stay off of your stimulants for a month and try to relax before measuring your BP…

[docdoc]

Thankyou for your time.

Anytime bro

[docdoc]

but Igi, all i did was give you a name. it doesn't mean that its something you need to fix. my own personal view about medicine is, if its not life threatening (in your case, a heart attack), and if the symptoms go away with simple medications (in your case, just emptying your lungs), then i would just leave it alone. chasing it further with more investigations will just make your dr rich. doesn't make you better at all. but thats just me

shhhhh… you're cutting down my income bro loll

Pleuritis is pretty serious, luckily he doesn't have this.

[AD]

shhhhh… you're cutting down my income bro loll

Pleuritis is pretty serious, luckily he doesn't have this.

wow, a panic attack?! i wouldn't have guessed!

[Boxtrot]

Hi docdoc i am glad you are here, feel like you might be my saviour kind of thing since the doctors i go to dont know anything about AAS an therefore wont make any connections between that an my problem.

Basically there was a combination of things happening at the time this occurred. So if there's no apparent connection i will mention them, but to begin with, basically i attempted a cycle of test E for my first cycle witch turned out to be severely underdosed, so i stopped at week 6 when i got my blood tested.

What happened was as soon as i started injecting, i began having a heavy heart beat (increased contractile force). Now as per other members on this site it is meant to be quite normal as this can be the nature of test for some people, however my heavy heart beat has not resided and i am left having to take meds to get to sleep every night since i did my first injection as the sensation of my heart beating keeps me awake at night. Yet i can sleep during the day without meds if im tired enough.

I've seen 3 doctors and a cardiologist all say it is somatization since i have existing anxiety already but i never had this particular problem till i did my first injection. I had heart monitor and a ultrasound done of my heart recently and am waiting for the results but for the moment just off the top of my head i believe the effects test has on your heart (it increases contractile force) has changed the rythem of my heart, is this possible? or what do you think?

I will return with the results of the heart monitor and ultrasound as soon as i get them.

[docdoc]

Hi docdoc i am glad you are here, feel like you might be my saviour kind of thing since the doctors i go to dont know anything about AAS an therefore wont make any connections between that an my problem.

Basically there was a combination of things happening at the time this occurred. So if there's no apparent connection i will mention them, but to begin with, basically i attempted a cycle of test E for my first cycle witch turned out to be severely underdosed, so i stopped at week 6 when i got my blood tested.

What happened was as soon as i started injecting, i began having a heavy heart beat (increased contractile force). Now as per other members on this site it is meant to be quite normal as this can be the nature of test for some people, however my heavy heart beat has not resided and i am left having to take meds to get to sleep every night since i did my first injection as the sensation of my heart beating keeps me awake at night. Yet i can sleep during the day without meds if im tired enough.

I've seen 3 doctors and a cardiologist all say it is somatization since i have existing anxiety already but i never had this particular problem till i did my first injection. I had heart monitor and a ultrasound done of my heart recently and am waiting for the results but for the moment just off the top of my head i believe the effects test has on your heart (it increases contractile force) has changed the rythem of my heart, is this possible? or what do you think?

I will return with the results of the heart monitor and ultrasound as soon as i get them.

Hey Boxtort,
I need some basic info first.. Age, average BP and HR, cholesterol results from your blood work if you have them. You also mentioned that you're taking m eds, can you tell me which m eds are you taking and when did you start taking them?
How do you know you have increased contractile force? did a doctor tell you or you think you have increased contractile force?

With the info you've given me I can give you the following diagnoses…
Testosterone is a supplement that causes hypertrophy of your muscles. Heart is made of cardiac muscle.. It's structurally different from skeletal muscles but responds the same way to growth hormones. There are medications that help increase the contractile force (CF), these meds are needed when a person's heart isn't completely pumping out all the blood dude to decreased contractile force (example: congestive heart failure). When we talk about steroids and heart there are 2 conditions that come to my mind..

1. Dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM)
2. Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM)

Both of these cause irreversible structural defect to the heart.
In DCM ALL heart chambers are dilated and your heart will look bigger. Enough blood will not be pumped out and cause black flow of the blood to the lungs. Results in CHF. This would result into DECREASED CF.. so this isn't what you have.

In HCM, Your heart's size is the same when you look at it from the outside BUT the WALLS of the heart become thicker (the heart muscles grow because of anabolic steroid). This thickening of the heart walls will cause less blood to be filled in the heart chambers because there's no more room (compared to a normal heart). This condition will result into increased CF. This is very commonly seen in young athletes, steroid users, people with untreated hypertension and 60-70% of HCM cases are familial (Autosomal Dominant inherence. Which brings me to my next question.. does anyone in your family have a heart condition or have passed away from it?). Let's say you were genetically predisposed to this condition and then you decided to juice up, that might've made your condition worse. or if you have hypertension and then juiced up.. that can also make it worse and exaggerate your condition.

For now I'll stick with HCM. I'll wait for your test results to come back.
You said you have anxiety, that can cause increased HR and depending on how severe your anxiety attacks are and how often you get them that can technically be contributed towards hypertension.

Again, this diagnosis was made solely based on the following 3 things you've told me.. Anxiety, Increased contractile force and use of anabolic steroids. This would be an incomplete diagnosis. I need the following things.. Age, weight, sex, family history of heart related illness and how old were they when they passed away due to it. If you came up with the conclusion that you have increased CF on your own (without a doctor) then all that I just told you doesn't mean sh!t.

HCM is a pretty serious condition and it will show up on ultrasound of your heart. If your ultrasound comes out clean then I would have to agree with somatization disorder. I know thats the last thing any patient wants to hear but your brain is a very powerful thing and if you think that there's something wrong with you.. your brain will actually present your body with those symptoms! I've seen this happen on multiple occasions and it's very common in the western civilization. Let's just wait for your ultrasound.
Good luck