Test c cycle going, few basic ?'s

[THEinCREDIBLEbulk]

Hey y'all, runnin test c 500m 1x wk. for 12 wks. first and foremost, lost my stash of adex,nolva, and Clomid. Don't ask... This being my first cycle, I'm trippin a bit. I've read that that particular test is well tolerated with minimal sides other than some bloat, this appears to be the case with me. No signs of gyno, some bloat but overall not bad. My question is this, should I be kicking in doors looking for these ai's and serms or can I save the high bp for aas and wait the two weeks it will take to get more.
Also, is it ok to take my plunge a day early as I won't be able to do it discretely the usual 7 day hit.
Well, I think that's everything. Oh, my sups;
Multi men's daily
Whey
M milk
Creatine
Fish oil
Super b complex
Bcaa
Vit e
Milk thistle
Water, water, water!!!!!

[MuscleInk]

You should know there are far worse things caused by estrogen other than gyno (blood thickens, increase risk for stroke, heart attack, arterial disease, prostate disease, erectile dysfunction, and more). It's the symptoms you don't see that can cause the most damage. Get an AI and run the cycle properly.

[Mp859]

Stats


Age
Weight
Height
Years training

You shouldn't be running anything without ancillaries

And you are shooting 500mg once a week?

[Mp859]

Beat me to it MI

[MuscleInk]

Beat me to it MI

The more contributing to the thread, the better. It's all good brother.

[Back In Black]

He is 34 or 64.

6'2
246lbs ish

I am gonna ask bodyfat% though?

[kelkel]

He is 34 or 64.

6'2
246lbs ish

I am gonna ask bodyfat% though?

Wee bit of a broad range there....

[Back In Black]

Wee bit of a broad range there....

I lied. It's 36 or 64. Bit less wee

[kelkel]

I lied. It's 36 or 64. Bit less wee

Oui....!

[THEinCREDIBLEbulk]

Hmmm, ok. 36 years old, weighed in at 246 this morn, larger frame, 6'2", 17% body fat. And yes, pharm grade test cyp 500 mg IM once a week.
Now,the problem, my fine scholarly gents is that I was running a, "proper cycle", and have had to ditch my supply of AI's and serms. I'm in my 5th week of my 10-12 week cycle, depending on how I've responded by then. How this all happened is interesting, I assure you, as well as private, sorry. Now do I need to worry or can I wait the two weeks for more pills and just continue on cycle until I get them?

[MuscleInk]

Of course you can wait. Just appreciate the risks of elevated estrogen. Like I said, there are far greater problems to contend with than man boobs. Once you get the AIs, you may need to dose higher to bring the estro back down.

I wouldn't advise cycling without AIs and your SERMs for PCT. It's risky, but understand the potential risks and decide if its worth it or not.

You can order AIs and SERMs from the board sponsor (Ar-r.com) and it shouldn't take two weeks.

Always more than one solution to a problem.

[Igifuno]

Is this a money issue, or are you waiting for your sourse to stock up? If the latter, this board sponsor has those ancillaries on hand, and you can order today.

As stated above, keep an eye out for sides, and if you feel a lump or see significant puffiness, I would personally jump on 20mg nolv/ed along with my AI until it subsides.

[MuscleInk]

Is this a money issue, or are you waiting for your sourse to stock up? If the latter, this board sponsor has those ancillaries on hand, and you can order today.

As stated above, keep an eye out for sides, and if you feel a lump or see significant puffiness, I would personally jump on 20mg nolv/ed along with my AI until it subsides.

Raloxifene @ 60mg/d for 2 weeks is generally much more effective than tamoxifen for gyno. Tamoxifen and clomid should definitely be in the PCT though.

[THEinCREDIBLEbulk]

Many thanks. Logic suggested the advice you have given, but it is nice to receive assurance. Thanks for the link. I'll give it a whirl.
Thank you to all the posters...
issue solved
Oh, not a money issue, a trust thing. I'm willing to dump a couple of hundred though to see if I've found a good source. As far as PCT, going to run tam 40/20/20/20, Clomid at 150/75/75/75. My in cycle ai is adex .05 eod. Thanks!

[Igifuno]

Raloxifene @ 60mg/d for 2 weeks is generally much more effective than tamoxifen for gyno. Tamoxifen and clomid should definitely be in the PCT though.

MI what about on cycle, is this still the case?

[MuscleInk]

MI what about on cycle, is this still the case?

Yes. If true gyno appears, raloxifene is more effective. Letro works on some early cases but raloxifene is more effective and isn't as harsh as letro (which as you know, is an AI).

I've used raloxifene more often than letro in clinic. If E2 is high (300+) but there is no evidence of gyno, I prescribe 1-3 doses of letro to drop E2. If on cycle and both E2 and gyno are presentations, I typically recommend 1-2 doses of letro, then return to AI regimen and treat gyno with raloxifene for two weeks. Blood work at end of two week raloxifene is highly recommended to confirm E2 has dropped accordingly.

[kelkel]

MI why only two weeks for Ralox? Seems short.

[MuscleInk]

MI why only two weeks for Ralox? Seems short.

Two weeks, reassess with blood work. Raloxifene is fairly safe but we've seen changes in calcification in people following 10 weeks of raloxifene using susceptibility weighted MRI. It's hard to know if the raloxifene was the cause. We discussed a case last week about this and decided to start looking for this among patients at 5 weeks to see if there's any relationship. Raloxifene runs a slightly higher risk for DVTs and emboli so unless a persons medical hx is well documented, I run four weeks, split two by two and check blood work at 2 and 4 weeks. The most commons symptoms reported in clinic with my patients have been insomnia, leg cramps, hot flashes, influenza like symptoms. I had one patient with frequent nose bleeds. Haven't seen that one as a symptom with raloxifene before. That one still baffles me.

[kelkel]

Interesting. Then why not Nolva since Ralox is only marginally better, maybe 5% or so, and seems to bear less sides? Re the nose bleeds, hell, that could be time or year (dryness) or even simple allergies, right?

[MuscleInk]

Interesting. Then why not Nolva since Ralox is only marginally better, maybe 5% or so, and seems to bear less sides? Re the nose bleeds, hell, that could be time or year (dryness) or even simple allergies, right?

Some gyno doesn't respond well to Nolva. I've had patients on both and even gyno that may have been present for years shrinks to a level at which I can be surgically excised with negative margins better than Nolva.

Yes, regarding nose bleeds, I checked BP, diet, allergies. Nothing positive. Patient experienced daily nose bleeds upon walking and about 50% at night. Did his blood work, MRI, reviewed other Rx meds.....everything normal. Stopped 10 days post raloxifene but its the first and only evidence I've seen with Evista and its not even listed as a side effect. I still have a hard time believing it was raloxifene.

[Igifuno]

Very interesting. I have a couple bottles of ralox but haven't run it yet. Last cycle, I actually ran nolv along with aromasin, and the little bit of gyno I had completely disappeared and has not returned. I am very gyno proned and have had two past surgeries (left side 2005 and bi-lateral 2010).

I'm leading up to my question - I've discussed this with austin as well and he was still researching this so I'm interested to hear your position: what are your thoughts on running ralox as opposed to nolv for pct? Or, could you run it along with nolv, both at lower doses?

**Increadiblebulk sorry for the hijack man.. hope you don't mind **

[MuscleInk]

Very interesting. I have a couple bottles of ralox but haven't run it yet. Last cycle, I actually ran nolv along with aromasin, and the little bit of gyno I had completely disappeared and has not returned. I am very gyno proned and have had two past surgeries (left side 2005 and bi-lateral 2010).

I'm leading up to my question - I've discussed this with austin as well and he was still researching this so I'm interested to hear your position: what are your thoughts on running ralox as opposed to nolv for pct? Or, could you run it along with nolv, both at lower doses?

**Increadiblebulk sorry for the hijack man.. hope you don't mind **

As Kel suggested, Nolva is a bit easier to tolerate and the sides, especially at the dose and duration recommended for PCT.

I have severe gyno as a boy. At 18 I had a golf ball sized lump removed from my left pec. It had gotten so large and so coarse it was extremely painful to touch and I was limited to sleep on my back and right side.

I've made a few treatment recommendations for a couple of members here. Again, in several cases of gyno occurring on cycle, I recommended 1-3 letro doses to hit their E2 and usually a 2 weeks course of raloxifene and then I have them follow up with me.

[kelkel]

Some gyno doesn't respond well to Nolva. I've had patients on both and even gyno that may have been present for years shrinks to a level at which I can be surgically excised with negative margins better than Nolva.

Maybe simply Occam's Razor.

Hey, look at that old PM I sent you! Interesting, IMHO.