Anabolic Steroids - Tendon/Ligament Repair/ Recovery

**Guc Nukem** · 12-09-2013, 01:43 AM

I'm currently recovering from an ACL reconstructive surgery, as well has another meniscus surgery. I do martial arts, and while I was sparring I hurt my knee by landing on it in an awkward position. They reconstructed a piece of my ACL using my hamstring; my meniscus couldn't be repaired, so they just trimmed it. I was fortunate enough to have a meniscus that covered the entire surface of the joint capsule rather than two half donuts. Therefore very little was actually trimmed, I really made it more or less normal.

Anyways....
The reason I'm writing to you is because it has been close to 8 months post-op now and I still haven't returned to full sparring as I anticipated. I've been lifting weights and I can grapple if I'm cautious, but I can't kick on the leg yet. Does anyone know if there's a steroid I can use to help speed up the recovery time? I've read a lot of posts about Deca Durabolin and HGH being the preferred cycle, but the majority of those posts were close to 4 years old now. I was hoping if anyone had any current information on what I could do to speed up the recovery enough for me to comfortably kick with both legs again.

**IamTheChemist** · 12-09-2013, 02:00 AM

what is your age? have you used anabolic steroids before? people say that "deca " has been known to give a good sense of well being as they say, Deca/Test Cyp is very common. To speed up recovery, i would also use Glutamine and Chondroitin on top of using Deca.

**Guc Nukem** · 12-09-2013, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by IamTheChemist

what is your age? have you used anabolic steroids before? people say that "deca" has been known to give a good sense of well being as they say, Deca/Test Cyp is very common. To speed up recovery, i would also use Glutamine and Chondroitin on top of using Deca.

Hey man, thanks for the reply. I'm 20 years old. I don't have any experience with steroids , so this would be my first cycle.

**austinite** · 12-09-2013, 02:16 AM

I wouldn't touch anything at your age. Check the sticky threads with respect to cycling at a young age before you permanently damage yourself.

Welcome to the board, and best of luck to you.

**MuscleInk** · 12-09-2013, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by Guc Nukem

I'm currently recovering from an ACL reconstructive surgery, as well has another meniscus surgery. I do martial arts, and while I was sparring I hurt my knee by landing on it in an awkward position. They reconstructed a piece of my ACL using my hamstring; my meniscus couldn't be repaired, so they just trimmed it. I was fortunate enough to have a meniscus that covered the entire surface of the joint capsule rather than two half donuts. Therefore very little was actually trimmed, I really made it more or less normal.

Anyways....
The reason I'm writing to you is because it has been close to 8 months post-op now and I still haven't returned to full sparring as I anticipated. I've been lifting weights and I can grapple if I'm cautious, but I can't kick on the leg yet. Does anyone know if there's a steroid I can use to help speed up the recovery time? I've read a lot of posts about Deca Durabolin and HGH being the preferred cycle, but the majority of those posts were close to 4 years old now. I was hoping if anyone had any current information on what I could do to speed up the recovery enough for me to comfortably kick with both legs again.

Give yourself time to recover. A hamstring graft does not recover as quickly as a patellar-tendon graft (the preferred technique) or an allograft.

Steroids can weaken ligaments and tendons and among those that increase collagen synthesis, they do not promote cross linkage of tissue which is what increases the integrity of ligaments and tendons.

Taking steroids will likely hinder you recovery. You just need to give it time.

**lovbyts** · 12-09-2013, 07:32 AM

Agreed with the last 2 post above. You are more likely to re injury than do any good. Best to let it heal naturally especially at your age.

**qscgugcsq** · 12-09-2013, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Give yourself time to recover. A hamstring graft does not recover as quickly as a patellar-tendon graft (the preferred technique) or an allograft.

Steroids can weaken ligaments and tendons and among those that increase collagen synthesis, they do not promote cross linkage of tissue which is what increases the integrity of ligaments and tendons.

Taking steroids will likely hinder you recovery. You just need to give it time.

Am I wrong but I thought cross linkage(if thats really what I think it is) can be increased by lifting(a real pieoelectric effect) and electrotherapy(creating a fake piezoelectric effect) if he is still doing physiotherapy.
As he is already lifting would not be a good thing to increase collagen synthesis???

of course he is too young but cross linkage do not seem to be the issue...

**bass** · 12-09-2013, 10:26 AM

read this,

The Young and Steroids

**tmfsd** · 12-09-2013, 11:01 AM

Hey mate, I did my ACL and meniscus about 4 yrs ago playing rugby league. I went with the cadaver and had meniscus stitched up first time. ACL is a massive op to recover from. Initially my doc said I would be playing again within 6-8 months but after 7 months I still felt I wasn't anywhere near ready. It takes a while to get comfortable and used to it. You are young tho so u have plenty of time to heal. Just take ur time. U prob think 8 months is a long time, but in the big scheme of things, it isn't. 7 months post op from my initial surgery, I tore thru the stitches in the meniscus so had to have another scope done, this time the doc shaved some meniscus off. Wish he had done this the first time instead of trying to stitch it up, would have saved me a 2nd op. So I was out of the game for 2 seasons. Recently I tore the meniscus again and have since had my 3rd op on the same knee. Anyway, all the best on ur recovery mate

**Hazard** · 12-09-2013, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Give yourself time to recover. A hamstring graft does not recover as quickly as a patellar-tendon graft (the preferred technique) or an allograft.

Steroids can weaken ligaments and tendons and among those that increase collagen synthesis, they do not promote cross linkage of tissue which is what increases the integrity of ligaments and tendons.

Taking steroids will likely hinder you recovery. You just need to give it time.

Our suspended double bundled hamstring graft healed faster than patellar btb but we used retro-reamers and minimized damage.

That's neither here not there tho :-p

OP - stick to therapy. Steroids aren't going to help at this point. Even if you increase collagen synthesis - the new fibers will be too brittle for the added strength.

**MuscleInk** · 12-09-2013, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by qscgugcsq

Am I wrong but I thought cross linkage(if thats really what I think it is) can be increased by lifting(a real pieoelectric effect) and electrotherapy(creating a fake piezoelectric effect) if he is still doing physiotherapy.
As he is already lifting would not be a good thing to increase collagen synthesis???

of course he is too young but cross linkage do not seem to be the issue...

Not with this type of corrective surgery. Postoperative recovery depends on a multitude of factors that OP has not provided (and may be unaware). Soft tissue to bone recovery (the type from harvesting and using a hamstring in this procedure), takes much longer to heal than bone to bone reconstruction of the ACL. Fixation procedures, length of the tendon-bone interface, bone tunnel factors, age, and degree of immobilization are all relevant factors in rehabilitation. A secondary risk with hamstring harvesting is that inflammation caused by the trauma and surgery results in bone tunnel enlargement which can increase the risk for graft failure if the patient accelerates through the rehab process.

I understand how frustrating it is being sidelined with an injury. Last summer I had a grade 2 tear of my gastrocnemius and narrowly avoided compartment syndrome which would have been far more devastating to my recovery and future use of my leg. In many cases, you just have to let nature run its course and give your body time to recover. There is no magic pill. Without knowing the above factors related to OPs ACL reconstruction, anyone making recommendations for his rehab could be doing a disservice to him. I'm by no means an orthopedic surgeon but two of my colleagues are and we've discussed the procedure many times because I don't have an ACL in my right knee. It was blown out 25 years ago and many times I have thought about reconstructive options, but at my age, it becomes a question of necessity and benefit vs. risk. I'd much rather have a patellar reconstruction because its the gold standard and has less failures than allografts and hamstring harvesting, but recovery with this procedure is far more painful......and I'm NOT a fan of pain!

Side bar......although I'm not prescribing this to OP, when I tore my gastrocnemius (and if you haven't torn a muscle, I hope you never do, it's very unpleasant), my orthopedic colleague told me to expect upwards of 6-9 months for a full recovery. The second week after my injury (timing is important here as well!!!!!!) I started dosing 5ius of pharm-grade GH and increased this gradually to 15ius. Three and a half months out from the injury, I had a complete recovery with minimal scar tissue on MRI and avoided any surgery. During the recovery period all I did was rest and keep my leg immobilized and elevated (and inject GH). Absolutely NO lifting (and yes, it was frustrating as all hell). I had ONE session of PT after my recovery (thats all I required) and had full clearance to resume training.

So, unless there is an orthopedic surgeon here that would like to offer another view point, I would recommend OP take the time necessary time off to recover and let his body heal before injecting anabolic compounds and pushing himself before he's properly recovered.

**MuscleInk** · 12-09-2013, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Hazard

Our suspended double bundled hamstring graft healed faster than patellar btb but we used retro-reamers and minimized damage.

That's neither here not there tho :-p

OP - stick to therapy. Steroids aren't going to help at this point. Even if you increase collagen synthesis - the new fibers will be too brittle for the added strength.

Awesome feedback Haz! Yes, the hamstring harvests do heal much faster and are less painful (see my other response). There are some questions about integrity. Fixation techniques with this procedure are very good although there is some debate about increased laxity and failure with this procedure over other options. From what my colleagues have told me, it's an active area of research in orthopedic medicine to identify the conditions that optimize recovery and integrity of the reconstruction.

**Hazard** · 12-09-2013, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Awesome feedback Haz! Yes, the hamstring harvests do heal much faster and are less painful (see my other response). There are some questions about integrity. Fixation techniques with this procedure are very good although there is some debate about increased laxity and failure with this procedure over other options. From what my colleagues have told me, it's an active area of research in orthopedic medicine to identify the conditions that optimize recovery and integrity of the reconstruction.

The cayenne system was horrible. Their anchors chronically failed or got stuck. I used a lot of FH Othropedics CoLS system. If interested - look it up. The recovery rate was faster and we had patients weight bearing same day. I also got the procedure time down for most of my docs. It was very efficient. I took a lot of business from biomet and Stryker in my area :-)

**Hazard** · 12-09-2013, 12:24 PM

Also MI, we had a device that stretched the tendon. So we would harvest from the hamstring and then wrap the tendon around two pins to create a double bundle. Then we'd stitch it on either side and depending in the doc - once in the middle.

Each pin have a ribbon on it and it would pull through the tendon loop that was created. Each side is place into a clamp and the tendon is pulle and stretched. I can't remember the newtons it was under right now but it was higher than any system on the market.

After the tendon was stretched - we'd keep it moist and start the procedure.

Often times I could coach a PA through the graft preparation while the doc started the procedure. It was more hectic for me keeping an eye on both but it dropped the procedure time by 15 minutes atleast.

Sorry to massively hijack the thread OP - MI pm me if we keep going :-) haha

**MuscleInk** · 12-09-2013, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Hazard

The cayenne system was horrible. Their anchors chronically failed or got stuck. I used a lot of FH Othropedics CoLS system. If interested - look it up. The recovery rate was faster and we had patients weight bearing same day. I also got the procedure time down for most of my docs. It was very efficient. I took a lot of business from biomet and Stryker in my area :-)

Great info Haz. I may PM you as it sounds like there are some advancements in the area I'd be interested in hearing about. The 5 or 6 orthopods I know won't touch the cayenne system for the reasons you mentioned. I've heard about the double band approach but I don't have as much info on it as you do. I'm a head and neck guy by vocation and only had the privilege of assisting on two knee reconstructions (both ACLs). I've assisted in many more disc repairs (several have been body builders) but having a torn ACL myself, any advances in surgical approaches and recovery, interests me!

**Hazard** · 12-09-2013, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Great info Haz. I may PM you as it sounds like there are some advancements in the area I'd be interested in hearing about. The 5 or 6 orthopods I know won't touch the cayenne system for the reasons you mentioned. I've heard about the double band approach but I don't have as much info on it as you do. I'm a head and neck guy by vocation and only had the privilege of assisting on two knee reconstructions (both ACLs). I've assisted in many more disc repairs (several have been body builders) but having a torn ACL myself, any advances in surgical approaches and recovery, interests me!

I saw the charité disc replacement..... Very cool procedure. I never could watch anything with the head and neck lol..... And I can watch anything.

**Guc Nukem** · 12-10-2013, 04:41 AM

Thanks for all of the feedback you guys. I'm still not sure what to do, but I'm just going to let it heal on its own for now. There doesn't seem to be a reliable cycle for ligament/tendon growth/repair/recovery as far as I can tell.

I'm glad I got so much feedback though, normally when someone makes their first post on a forum they're ignored to some extent.