Hitting gym all natty for 2nd cycle preparation,need 2nd cycle advice,Pics Attached!

[SeXc1985]

Hello my friends, i need advice on my second cycle this is what i got from my source:

Test Prop 250mg/ml 10ml vial x3
Test E 300mg/ml 10ml vial x3
var 50x50mg tablets
winny 50x50mg tablets
HCG 5000 iu

And i will be getting all my AI's Serms from ar-r
Liquid tamoxifen
Liquid Clomid
Liquid Letro

Am i missing anything?
Milk thistle
liver shield
Cycle assist

Stats:
5'11
200 lbs
14-15% bf?
Cycle experience 12-week Test E
Goal: To add lean mass, increase strength get shredded dry thin paper like skin.

Ok now this is what im thinking for my cycle i just need help with a lot of tweaks to get this cycle correct.

Test P: to kick start cycle How much mgs per week? im thinking 125-200 mgs pw? and i know test p is pin eod. I need further advice on how exactly to jump start test e with test p. example:

125mgs test p wk +475mg test e wk =600mgs wk?(This is how much test i want to pin each wk 600mg)

Test E: 600mgs wk 1-12 pin mon-thur

var: 50 mgs ed wk 1-4?

winny: 50-100 mgs wk 8-12?

HCG: 500iu wk? 1-12???

PCT 12-16???
Nova 40/20/20/20?
Clomid 100/50/50/50?
Letro 0.25 mg eod? (Use during cycle if needed)

So im all ears for any advice criticism for this cycle please be aware i am still very novice when it comes to cycling and gear.
Here are some pics of me all natty preparing for my cycle , im trying to keep body fat down and get a good base so my cycle will be that much better!
P.S What a great sticky http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

[jsanman]

for your pct
you dont need letro, its uber strong,
as for clomi i believe its about 70,70,35,35 this substance can wreak havok on alot of people

[SeXc1985]

The Letro is a AI to have on hand incase of any sides like water retention bloat itchy nips etc .25 mg eod during cycle if needed as for clomid i think i know what you mean by wreak havoc lol...my last cycle i was running 100/50/50/50 and it made me very depressed emotional i think. I really had to keep myself together lol wasn't easy!

[johnnymctrance]

I didnt think it was possible to get prop at that high of a concentration???

[jsanman]

letro is always good to have on the side. much better than getting the syntomes and having to wait for your order to come. i wouldnt use it tho, unless you feel you are getting signs of geno, this stuff is painful to use ive heard
and yeah the depression is very common while on clomi, many guys end up going suicidal while on it. its important to keep a level head, if the syntoms get that bad talk to the board and get help

[jsanman]

I didnt think it was possible to get prop at that high of a concentration???

ive seen it before at this level once, heard it was brutally painful tho... was the guys first cycle, wasn't a fun experience for him
if youre running test e, then taking test p wouldn't be of much use its the same substance only real difference is the esters wich determine how long they stay in your body

[SeXc1985]

letro is always good to have on the side. much better than getting the syntomes and having to wait for your order to come. i wouldnt use it tho, unless you feel you are getting signs of geno, this stuff is painful to use ive heard
and yeah the depression is very common while on clomi, many guys end up going suicidal while on it. its important to keep a level head, if the syntoms get that bad talk to the board and get help

Yea i mostly got it incase of signes of gyno, i already have a small pea size lump in my right nipple from past harsh pro hormone cycles i think i got it under control thoe. as for letro being painful to use i never heard of that...i dont see how liquid letro can be painful besides the fact the little burning sensation when i let it sit under my tongue for a minute.

[SeXc1985]

ive seen it before at this level once, heard it was brutally painful tho... was the guys first cycle, wasn't a fun experience for him
if youre running test e, then taking test p wouldn't be of much use its the same substance only real difference is the esters wich determine how long they stay in your body

I was thinking because Test P has a shorter ester i would feel it faster while i wait for the Test E with longer ester to kick in.

[jsanman]

Yea i mostly got it incase of signes of gyno, i already have a small pea size lump in my right nipple from past harsh pro hormone cycles i think i got it under control thoe. as for letro being painful to use i never heard of that...i dont see how liquid letro can be painful besides the fact the little burning sensation when i let it sit under my tongue for a minute.

one of the fourms i read on letro, said it does such a good job at reducing estrogen that some people develop pain on their nipple areas Clomid

[jsanman]

I was thinking because Test P has a shorter ester i would feel it faster while i wait for the Test E with longer ester to kick in.

more then likely yes you would feel it getting started faster, but it platues at around 8 weeks instead of 12 weeks like test E
they both do the same thing, the only real benifit i of p over e is the low water retention.

[Back In Black]

What results did you get from your first cycle and why do you feel the need to add 3 more compounds for your second cycle?

Run your AI on cycle. Not in PCT and not 'just in case'. Letro is a poor choice it's hard to manage your E2 levels. Arimidex or aromasin are much better choices.

And gaining muscle and getting shredded are almost 2 completely different tasks. You may be unhappy with the outcome if this is what you strive for.

[SeXc1985]

What results did you get from your first cycle and why do you feel the need to add 3 more compounds for your second cycle?

Run your AI on cycle. Not in PCT and not 'just in case'. Letro is a poor choice it's hard to manage your E2 levels. Arimidex or aromasin are much better choices.

And gaining muscle and getting shredded are almost 2 completely different tasks. You may be unhappy with the outcome if this is what you strive for.

About 20-30 lbs gains mostly water, i was about 230 lbs in this picture i didnt like the look to puffy bloated looking but i did like the strength increase.

I am not useing letro for my pct sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm wanting to add more compounds to my cycle because i feel like test alone wasnt enough for me but i think im going to just keep it simple and run a 12 week cycle of Test E or Test P and 1 compound taper off with var or winny.

[Back In Black]

Did you use an AI on cycle last time?

[SeXc1985]

Did you use an AI on cycle last time?

I'm not exactly sure it was so long ago but if i remember correctly i did have a AI on hand incase of any sides Letro to be exact. Besides water retention i had no other side effects.

I'm sure if i used a Ai during it would have countered the water retention, it was my first cycle so i didnt know if the ai would make my cycle weaker or what and i wanted to see how my body reacted to the Test E for the first time.

[ironbeck]

ive seen it before at this level once, heard it was brutally painful tho... was the guys first cycle, wasn't a fun experience for him
if youre running test e, then taking test p wouldn't be of much use its the same substance only real difference is the esters which determine how long they stay in your body

Then why are you talking about letro and just regurgitating information you heard some hwre? try to talk about compound you have personal experience with, or after a statement put a question mark so a vet can chime in for a confirmation or correction.....just sayin

[ironbeck]

i happen to love the stuff, but for a cycle such as proposed it's over kill.

[Cuz]

choose the anavar or the winny, don't run both. I don't like switching up esters id prefer you ran just 500mg test p or 600mg test E.
your bf is closer to 18-20 I would say. your not going to get that shredded look if you don't diet down first its just not going to happen. You have a little ways to go before you start your cycle id recommend if you are giong to cut. your diet will have to be spot on, you are trying to cut aren't you?
tbh, that's not really enough var or wnny either one just my opinion. Id run the var at 80-100 mg aday for the last six weeks.
you don't need letro, get the dex and dose it at .25 mg every other day on cycle
pct looks ok

[Cuz]

All you need for liver support is NAC at 1800mg a day on cycle, you can take the milk thistle if you want but the NAC will work better.

[EasyDoesIt]

more then likely yes you would feel it getting started faster, but it platues at around 8 weeks instead of 12 weeks like test E
they both do the same thing, the only real benifit i of p over e is the low water retention.

Many people front load with propionate until the test e kicks in.
It is usually run at 100mgs eod. I think it needs to be frontloaded at least 4 weeks. But some people start tapering it down i think after the second or third week. I have never done it, but people have had great results with front loading, so if he choses to do so it will help.
OP don't use the var the first 4 weeks, that is a waste of var. You said you wanted to get shredded, so if you choose an oral, pick winnie or var at the end, but not both. You need to use an AI like BIB said, aromasin or arimidex and your 100/50/50/50 protocol is correct. The nolva is 40/20/20/20. You don't wait to see if you have gyno to use AI.
The hcg is run throughout the cycle twice a week at 250iu's per week. Check out the pct section.
The Letro is harsh on your body as far as being lethargic, joints aching, libido. The newer protocol is to use roloxafine for gyno reversal. Keep the letro on hand and if your sensitivity gets out of hand use the letro as it has worked well and quick for me. It will squash it pretty quick. Many speak out against it, i am using rolaxifine at 60mgs per day for about a month and nothing is happening, i have hit letro and in a few days the bad sensitivity is already subsiding. As soon as it is gone i will continue with rolaxifine and i am giving it 4 months max.
Think i covered most everything. BIB has much more experience than myself. For the most part you are always safe with Mod advice and some knowlegeable and productive members. There are newbies on this forum that have some great knowledge but there usually older guys not in there early 20's. Probably came to this forum and status is new.

[mockery]

letro should be treated as a advanced compound, as many stage athletes use it to keep dry and eat it like candy, the flip side of this is its very dangerous to your joins and libido. Its a great drug, but its not a good choice for safe weekend warrior rec cycling.

[SeXc1985]

Thank you my brothers and sisters for all the advice. I really do very much appreciate it sharing your knowledge with a beginner like myself.

@Chadcuz1985 When it comes to my diet i am not to disciplined, i eat whatever i want and try to meet my macros and im not even completely sure what my macros exactly are i just look at myself in the mirror and try to see what i need but this is what i try to take in everyday 200+ grams protein 400-600 carbs 50 g fat 3500-4000 calories and i eat clean whole foods just not clean enough for being shredded lol. As far as not enough var or winny i think im going to get more oral winny and take it at the end of my cycle for 6 weeks like you suggested and will be getting arimidex and NAC for sure..Thanks again my brudda!

@EasyDoesIt I to went through that experience but i used roloxafine @ 80 mgs ed until the bottle was gone even did a letro nolvadex protocal before i found out about roloxafine.
I have it shrunk down to about pea size lump seems to be under control as of right now no puffy itchy tender nips.

@mockery Good to know! i have used letro before and love it i never experienced any of those sides iv'e taken letro @ 0.25 0.50 0.75 1, not sure if those are low or high doses for letro thoe.

So as the day's go on...and man i can't wait to pin!!! This is what i'm thinking for my second cycle.

Test E 750 mgs wk 1-12 ( I got 9000 mgs of test E 750 mgs wk for 12 weeks = 9000 mgs)

Winny Tablets 100 mgs ed wk 6-12

HCG 250 iu wk 1-12

AI armidex 0.25 mgs eod
Liver support NAC 1800 mgs ed wk 1-12
PCT Nolva 40/20/20/20 Clomid 100/50/50/50

[EasyDoesIt]

Decide to skip frontloading?

[Cuz]

way to many carbs and not enough protein. if you need help the guys in the nutrition section can help you stay on point. bump the hcg to 500'iu week. good luck with cycle

[SeXc1985]

Decide to skip frontloading?

Tbh i still havent made my mind completely up yet, unless some one can explain to me how to exactly front load. Example: I want to do 750 mgs of test per wk of test e. do i inject 750 mgs a wk of test and and lets say..100 mgs of test p on top of that? or 650 test e and 100 test p = 750?

[SeXc1985]

way to many carbs and not enough protein. if you need help the guys in the nutrition section can help you stay on point. bump the hcg to 500'iu week. good luck with cycle

Yes sir i love my carbs! im all natty atm and they help me with energy and recovery in the gym and i love the pump i get from them

But i going to take your advice and bump up my protein to 2g per pound and go take a look at the nutrition section to get my macros on point.

I plan on bumping up the hcg to 500 iu week because this is another cycle i have in mind. Who am i kidding? shredded in the winter? i am leaning more towards winter bulk cycle tell me what you think!

Test E 750 mgs wk 1-12
Deca 400-450 mgs wk 1-10
Dbol 50 mgs ed wk 1-6 (I have Dbol but I wanted Tbol but my source is out)
HCG 500 iu wk 1-12

AI arimidex 0.50 mgs eod

PCT Nolva clomid aromasin (I have this product called Perfect PCT by Anabolic nations. In one tablet it has 50 mgs clomid 20 mgs nolva 6.25 mgs aromasin)

[EasyDoesIt]

You don't use aromasin for pct, it is an ai which you are already using throughout your cycle. Just nolva and clomid
Pretty sure you start with normal dosage of test e to front load. but it is the tapering off prop i am not sure about.
Just post question about it, i am sure you will get good answers.